Oh, no. I am not going to fall for a straw-man argument consisting of things that I did not say.

As I said before, all races are equal, but not all cultures or subcultures are equal. Two people can be racially the same but culturally different.

There is more than one culture or subculture consisting of people who are outwardly black. That is why I did not say "black subculture".

Second, I didn't say that institutional racism is a figment of someone's imagination. It can still exist, but some people are prone to quickly cry "institutional racism" when other things may be producing what is being seen.

In my last post, I included two charts which show a rise in the incarceration rates of Americans in different subcultures, with high school drop-outs being separate from Americans who didn't drop out of high school.

Those charts show that incarceration rates have been going up at a time when personal and institutional racism in America have been fading away.

Because all races are equal, it is possible for members of any racial group to make self-defeating choices and to engage in self-defeating behavior.

Because all races are equal, it is possible for members of any racial group to be of poor character.

Yet, some liberals and Democrats would have us to believe that black Americans are incapable of self-defeating choices and behavior, are incapable of having poor character. So, if they end up in poverty or in legal trouble, then it can't possibly be their fault.

According to census.gov a total of $ 605 billion dollars were spent on public education for fiscal year 2009.

That is almost 25% of the total revenue collected by the federal government. .

How much more money is it going to take before we can scratch substandard schools off the grievance list?

Now, I will respond to the straw-man arguments presented earlier.



As I said before, race and subculture are different things.

A subculture can contain elements that discourage the creation of wealth and that make its members more prone to enter into criminal behavior.

A subculture can discourage the creation of wealth simply because that subculture is dominated by a particular political party, as citizens of Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela can testify about.

If you want to know about American subcultures that made its members prone to commit crimes, then read about the 7 Infamous Gangs of New York. Those gangs rose out of subcultures that didn't include black Americans.

A culture or subculture can promote behavior that is legally permissible but immoral. We see an example of such a culture when we examine the culture of the people who established the English colonies in what is now the southeastern USA. There was definitely something rotten in that culture, because that culture promoted the use of slave labor in order to gain wealth for the Crown of England.



The last time that I checked, Republicans have been trying to rescue minority children from substandard educational institutions by promoting school choice, but Democrats have done all they can to keep minority children in substandard educational institutions.



Someone will have to provide evidence that drug-related stops are determined by the race of the ones being stopped. By the way, if minorities have or use drugs, it is because they choose to have or use them.



The last time that I checked, stop-and-frisk is based on location, not on race. Stop-and-frisk has been used in areas that have disproportionately-high rates of gun-related crimes. As a result of stop-and-frisk in NYC, the rate of black-on-black killings in NYC has dropped significantly, meaning that stop-and-frisk has saved black American lives.


No evidence has been provided to demonstrate that people are being followed around in stores just because those people are of a particular race.

this is what was posted

'Some people find it easier to re-fight the finished battles of the 20th Century by crying "Institutional racism!" than to admit that the black American subculture is currently producing a disproportionate number of criminals'


BLACK AMERICAN SUBCULTURE? what is that,,, ?

criminals exist in black and white dodo,, so dont white folks have a 'subculture' of criminals too?

and if so, how then do we account for the disproportionate represenation of the black criminal subculture compared to that of the white criminal subculture?


I dont know of anyone that steps up whenever ANY black person does something and says they are not wrong.....

of course people do wrong and can be wrong,,,

but i tire of every discussion on the institutional racism in america being deflected by some irrelevant discussion about what INDIVIDUALS do,,,,,

im talking about people as groups,, blacks, whites, native americans, whatever,, in america

there is a REAL racially divided history that founded the country that is STILL affecting the country

and that isnt gonna change with this 'well everything is not institutional racism' response

of course not EVERYTHING is,, I concede to that fact

but some things ARE,,,,

yeah,, its all in the minds of black people, wont be able to 'prove' it no matter what I say,,,,,,cest la vie,,,

Again, I said nothing like that.

Human beings have a bad habit of trying to come up with simple answers to complex problems, because a simple answer is easier to cope with mentally than a complex answer.

Complex problems can have complex causes, and a simple answer may not be the answer to those causes.

It appears to me that some liberals and Democrats are quick to blame racism for certain things when other possible causes have not yet been eliminated.

By the way, the expression "black people" pertains to all members of a particular race, which is why I have been careful to say "black Americans", because I am talking about a specific subculture within the USA, not about every member of a particular race.

Blacks who are actual Africans, who are Europeans and who are Afro-Latinos are NOT members of the black American subculture.

yeah, and the 'African American subculture' is not s simple response to the discussion of institutional racism within the justice system

AT ALL.....

Excuses won't excuse animal behavior.

Mad animals are humanely put down.

harmony I don;t think institutional discrimination is a myth, I agree it exists and we all do the best to use the laws to our advantage where needed. But as I have stated before it's important to remember that race is not the only protected class...IMO discrimination based on gender and age is probably more prevalent, just as illegal and just as unethical.

I have been reading some info from the BJS, however, to get back to the topic of criminal arrests, and I agree that you (harmony) has a point regarding reporting arrests only. SO I took a look at the federal victimization statistics. Interesting, it looks to me after a first brief read that where someone lives (urban areas) has more to do with their chances of becoming a victim. Altho victimizations for white males did increase slightly between 2010-2011, it does not give the demographics of the perps. (The BJS publishes a different report on the demographis by race age gender of perpatrators).

This report can also reassure Miss Wright that we are not necesarily going to hell in a handbasket....as violent victimizations tho increased slightly from 2010-2011, it was mostly simple assault that made up the increase, and violent victimizations are still well below the numbers reported in the 1990s (a net decrease in violent victimization).

(so ya....please do blame the media for the hype)

I have links and I will post them. I don;t know the tags on here so I hope a fellow mingler will repost the links live. One is pdf of tables and another is a link to the web site for the Bureau of Justice Statistics (federal)

be careful on drawing conclusions. Social/statistical research protocol requires that results interpreted be directly related to the numbers reported and not generalized to the population in general. (This means that one cannot ASSUME just because it says victimizations for white males increased that because you are a white male you will be a victim) These are statistics for the United STates only.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv11.pdf

http://www.bjs.gov/

let's keep this factual rather emotive attacks based on race hatred...just a thought ...lol

it is definitely a response to that. and that issue is a topic unto itself....a HUGE one.

I think the popularity of that lifestyle is on the wane however from where it was being glorified in the late 90s. Virtually none of my black coworkers or neighbors behave in that lifestyle as far as I can tell. I mean a few of the young people like the rappers...but are responsible employed young adults and for the most part ....pretty normal

there is also evidence to refute the idea that those who support handgun control are "nuts" there are stats that support an alrming number of crimes committed with handguns by those excersizing their "rights" your rights to a handgun end where my right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness begins. I totally feel that the latest crimes in the media are less issues of race and moreso issues of handgun control:

don;t let the facts spoil it for ya...lol

(BJS Firearm Violence 1993-2011)

Michael Planty, Ph.D., Jennifer L. Truman, Ph.D.

May 7, 2013 NCJ 241730

Presents trends on the number and rate of fatal and nonfatal firearm violence from 1993 to 2011. The report examines incident and victim demographic characteristics of firearm violence, including the type of firearm used; victim's race, age, and sex; and incident location. The report also examines changes over time in the percentages of nonfatal firearm crimes by injury, reporting to the police, and the use of firearms in self-defense. Information on homicide was obtained primarily from the Centers for Disease Control's (CDC) National Vital Statistics System. Nonfatal firearm violence data are from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which collects information on nonfatal crimes reported and not reported to the police against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households.

Highlights: (BJS Firearm Violence 1993-2011)

Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011.
Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011.

**Firearm violence accounted for about 70% of all homicides and less than 10% of all nonfatal violent crime from 1993 to 2011.**

**From 1993 to 2011, about 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun.**


Males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 had the highest rates of firearm homicide from 1993 to 2010.
About 61% of nonfatal firearm violence was reported to the police in 2007-11.


while the overall decrease looks good, the percentage of handgun use by youths looks not so good

Handgun-Control like in Chi-Town or NYC?

I am simply not in favor of assuming something that has not been proven.

I would claim "institutional racism" only after all other possibilities have been eliminated.

If the two thugs who killed that elderly man are incarcerated, would you blame institutional racism for their incarceration?

How about the thug who shot that Australian in Oklahoma? If that thug is incarcerated, would you blame institutional racism for his incarceration?

Felons wouldn't be incarcerated if they didn't commit felonies in the first place. Felons cause themselves to be incarcerated because they choose to commit felonies.

So, how about addressing the culture that promotes the violence that such thugs engage in?

In a Facebook post, former Congressman Allen West had this to say about the beating death of that elderly man:

I agree with Mr West.
They want to act like rabid dogs, they need put down like rabid dogs.

yes,, when WHITES Address the 'feral' 'subculture' amongst their own,, than we will certainly address the 'subculture' of ours

until then, I Think its rather condescending to try to smash discussion of institutional racism by diverting to crime as some measure of whats happening in the black community as if its unique or exclusive


as if,,,,,,


and dodo, I respect your 'proof' mentality, but I also suggest its utterly unrealistic

if I Am raped, for instance, how will I come on line and PROVE to you that it happened?

I wouldn't be able to,, sometimes. most times, things have to be interpreted and concluded amongst MANY POSSIBILITIES

there will be few situations where there are NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES to consider,, and if you wish to always take ANY OTHER Possibility that's there before believing someones claims,,,or someones conclusions

that is your prerogative,,,,,

It is an epidemic.

a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time.

LETS SEE...

The study, which includes data from all 50 states, reported that black men had the highest incarceration rate of 3,059 per 100,000 U.S. black residents, which was nearly seven times higher than the incarceration rate for white men. The incarceration rate for white men was 456 per 100,000 U.S. white residents at the end of 2010. The incarceration rate for Hispanic men was 1,252 per 100,000 U.S. Latino residents.

http://www.thenorthstarnews.com/Story/Black-Incarceration-Rates-Remain-High-but-Overall-Prison-Population-Drops

3 percent in prison


maybe half of that for violence,,

yep,, 1.5 percent seems like an 'epidemic' to me too,,,

And, just why are they in prison??????????????

They criminals, using the excuse.

They do fit your description of a disease.

lots of people do

there is an 'epidemic' of vile racism too,,, but that's another topic,,,