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Topic: "15 Lies of Liberalism"
Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 01/30/13 02:34 PM
Professional blogger John Hawkins has written a commentary titled "15 Lies of Liberalism". If you feel up to it, discuss whether or not Hawkins is correct in what he says. Here are excerpts from his commentary. Liberalism offers up a utopian vision of the world and then invites its practitioners to feel good about themselves for embracing it. Not only does this beautiful fantasy world never come to pass, liberalism fails to address the root causes of the problems it sets out to solve while creating whole new disasters in the process. In other words, it's a never ending circle. There's a problem, liberalism is offered up as the solution, it doesn't work and creates more problems, for which liberalism is offered up as the solution, etc., etc., etc. until you're starving, bankrupt, or your society is tearing itself apart at the seams. Liberalism says that.... 1) ...it's all about choice -- unless you want to choose which gun or lightbulb to use, which school your child will attend, or you’d prefer more freedom and smaller government. 2) ...it cares about the environment, when in practice, not only do liberals like Al Gore live some of the most resource-wasting and ostentatious lifestyles on the planet, but they hurt the environment by blocking environmentally friendly energy production here in favor of energy sources from nations that care little about pollution. 3) ...you can have lots of free government services and somebody else will pay for them. The trillion dollar deficit we're running every year that will have to be paid back says otherwise. . . ... 6) ...it's all about compassion and taking care of the less fortunate, unless liberals have their own money on the line, in which case they give less to charity than those stingy, greedy, heartless conservatives. . . ... 12) ....it'll help the poor -- and it does. Liberalism helps poor Americans live in ghettos with just enough food and money to survive so they can stay dependent on liberals. It's the same sort of help a farmer gives a chicken while he harvests its eggs and waits for the right time to wring its neck and toss it in the frying pan. 13) ...liberals are the only people who care about black Americans and want to help, which doesn't seem to square with the fact that just about anywhere and everywhere liberals have been in charge for decades, like Detroit or New Orleans, most black Americans are in dire straits. . . ... 15) ...you can fix crime by taking away guns, but by definition, the people who will voluntarily give up guns are law abiding citizens who have no intention of committing a crime in the first place. Besides, if that can work, why doesn't Barack Obama set the example by asking his Secret Service agents to disarm?

1956deluxe Joined Thu 12/06/07 Posts: 8559	Wed 01/30/13 04:22 PM
One BIG LIE from Conservatives...."It's not amnesty."

Toodygirl5 Joined Fri 10/26/12 Posts: 14975	Wed 01/30/13 07:18 PM
We all want the same things in life. We want freedom; we want the chance for prosperity; we want as few people suffering as possible; we want healthy children; we want to have crime-free streets. The argument is how to achieve them… Liberals believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need. Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems. NOTE: In the United States, liberals are referred to as the left or left-wing and conservatives are referred to as the right or right-wing. studentnewsdaily.com

willowdraga Joined Sat 10/13/12 Posts: 957	Wed 01/30/13 07:58 PM
Professional blogger John Hawkins has written a commentary titled "15 Lies of Liberalism". If you feel up to it, discuss whether or not Hawkins is correct in what he says. Here are excerpts from his commentary. Liberalism offers up a utopian vision of the world and then invites its practitioners to feel good about themselves for embracing it. Not only does this beautiful fantasy world never come to pass, liberalism fails to address the root causes of the problems it sets out to solve while creating whole new disasters in the process. In other words, it's a never ending circle. There's a problem, liberalism is offered up as the solution, it doesn't work and creates more problems, for which liberalism is offered up as the solution, etc., etc., etc. until you're starving, bankrupt, or your society is tearing itself apart at the seams. Liberalism says that.... 1) ...it's all about choice -- unless you want to choose which gun or lightbulb to use, which school your child will attend, or you’d prefer more freedom and smaller government. 2) ...it cares about the environment, when in practice, not only do liberals like Al Gore live some of the most resource-wasting and ostentatious lifestyles on the planet, but they hurt the environment by blocking environmentally friendly energy production here in favor of energy sources from nations that care little about pollution. 3) ...you can have lots of free government services and somebody else will pay for them. The trillion dollar deficit we're running every year that will have to be paid back says otherwise. . . ... 6) ...it's all about compassion and taking care of the less fortunate, unless liberals have their own money on the line, in which case they give less to charity than those stingy, greedy, heartless conservatives. . . ... 12) ....it'll help the poor -- and it does. Liberalism helps poor Americans live in ghettos with just enough food and money to survive so they can stay dependent on liberals. It's the same sort of help a farmer gives a chicken while he harvests its eggs and waits for the right time to wring its neck and toss it in the frying pan. 13) ...liberals are the only people who care about black Americans and want to help, which doesn't seem to square with the fact that just about anywhere and everywhere liberals have been in charge for decades, like Detroit or New Orleans, most black Americans are in dire straits. . . ... 15) ...you can fix crime by taking away guns, but by definition, the people who will voluntarily give up guns are law abiding citizens who have no intention of committing a crime in the first place. Besides, if that can work, why doesn't Barack Obama set the example by asking his Secret Service agents to disarm? What a bunch of garbage. Liberalism stands for freedoms. Freedoms come at a price and it hits not only your responsibility to others in your community but your obligations to keep the freedoms. Freedom does not mean that you just get to be a legal owning crazy *** gun lunatic that threatens others by you having a gun, for example and there is no law or right that allows you do to such. Just as screaming fire in a crowded theatre is not allowed with the freedom of speech. Freedoms do not mean anarchy. There is a lot of responsibility that comes with freedoms and cost that comes with freedoms both will cause all to have to give. All have to give up some for the freedoms of all. Conservatism is the restrictive, self serving, self deprecating, neandrathal form of dealing with others. Not enlightened at all. Not encouraging of freedom, not inclusive of all. It is a very limited brain state to be in to think in a conservative mind state.

willowdraga Joined Sat 10/13/12 Posts: 957	Wed 01/30/13 08:02 PM
And I do not write what I right to change neandrathal minds. I write what I write so those who feel the same way, know that they are on the right track and others are there who feel the same way. So they do not get beaten down with all the fearmongering and hatemongering of the right wingers in the world.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 01/30/13 10:42 PM
as stated many times, it just seems to me that liberal and conservative are labels that end up being subjective to the speakers point of view I dont know how to really comment on whether I agree regarding what liberalism or conservativism is as neither label really matter to me as to what was posted though: 1. I already choose my lightbulbs and have numerous guns I could purchase if I Wanted to as well. I can send my child where I want, but not a PUBLIC/FREE school which means I have less 'choice'(free things usually come with less choice,, we usually PAY for our choices) I feel pretty 'free', and the government seems the right size to me for the most part, although it will always be possible to get better 2.I care about environment, I dont obsess over it though. Much like I care about my physical health, but to the point where I try to keep a common sense balance in my life, not to the point where I refuse to eat a candy bar or drink a soda. Likewise with the environment, I dont litter, I try to remember to recycle, I dont smoke,,,,, its possible to care by using balance and not by complete elimination of one thing or another. 3.In our household, we each contribute in some way. Not everyone in the household has finances at the same time so they contribute in some other way, and everyone in the household enjoys the benefits of being part of the household, even during times when they arent necessarily contributing financially, because they have or will be contributing to those who contributed to them. Its a circle, and it applies to society as well. Its not 'someone else paying' , its everyone contributing different things at different times. 6.Charity starts at home. Not everyone can give, not everyone who gives does it out of a sense of charity. 12. Helping the poor does not alleviate poverty. Some do benefit and are able to have resources and networks they may otherwise not get access too through social services. Its not a cure all though, and many others remain in poverty. 13.I dont know how caring about people becomes liberal or conservative. Some folks care and some dont. 15. You cant 'fix' crime. We can only decrease crime or increase crime, or make criminals easier to catch and prosecute. Fewer guns leaves less POTENTIAL for gun violence, its simple mathematics. Most people dont want to disarm law abiding citizens. The concern is only with how easy it is for unstable and potentially murderous citizens to obtain and use 'arms' against others.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 01/30/13 10:58 PM Edited by Kleisto on Wed 01/30/13 10:58 PM
Professional blogger John Hawkins has written a commentary titled "15 Lies of Liberalism". If you feel up to it, discuss whether or not Hawkins is correct in what he says. Here are excerpts from his commentary. Liberalism offers up a utopian vision of the world and then invites its practitioners to feel good about themselves for embracing it. Not only does this beautiful fantasy world never come to pass, liberalism fails to address the root causes of the problems it sets out to solve while creating whole new disasters in the process. In other words, it's a never ending circle. There's a problem, liberalism is offered up as the solution, it doesn't work and creates more problems, for which liberalism is offered up as the solution, etc., etc., etc. until you're starving, bankrupt, or your society is tearing itself apart at the seams. Liberalism says that.... 1) ...it's all about choice -- unless you want to choose which gun or lightbulb to use, which school your child will attend, or you’d prefer more freedom and smaller government. 2) ...it cares about the environment, when in practice, not only do liberals like Al Gore live some of the most resource-wasting and ostentatious lifestyles on the planet, but they hurt the environment by blocking environmentally friendly energy production here in favor of energy sources from nations that care little about pollution. 3) ...you can have lots of free government services and somebody else will pay for them. The trillion dollar deficit we're running every year that will have to be paid back says otherwise. . . ... 6) ...it's all about compassion and taking care of the less fortunate, unless liberals have their own money on the line, in which case they give less to charity than those stingy, greedy, heartless conservatives. . . ... 12) ....it'll help the poor -- and it does. Liberalism helps poor Americans live in ghettos with just enough food and money to survive so they can stay dependent on liberals. It's the same sort of help a farmer gives a chicken while he harvests its eggs and waits for the right time to wring its neck and toss it in the frying pan. 13) ...liberals are the only people who care about black Americans and want to help, which doesn't seem to square with the fact that just about anywhere and everywhere liberals have been in charge for decades, like Detroit or New Orleans, most black Americans are in dire straits. . . ... 15) ...you can fix crime by taking away guns, but by definition, the people who will voluntarily give up guns are law abiding citizens who have no intention of committing a crime in the first place. Besides, if that can work, why doesn't Barack Obama set the example by asking his Secret Service agents to disarm? What a bunch of garbage. Liberalism stands for freedoms. Freedoms come at a price and it hits not only your responsibility to others in your community but your obligations to keep the freedoms. Freedom does not mean that you just get to be a legal owning crazy *** gun lunatic that threatens others by you having a gun, for example and there is no law or right that allows you do to such. Just as screaming fire in a crowded theatre is not allowed with the freedom of speech. Freedoms do not mean anarchy. There is a lot of responsibility that comes with freedoms and cost that comes with freedoms both will cause all to have to give. All have to give up some for the freedoms of all. sorry the founding fathers disagree with you. As the saying goes, those who will give up their liberty for temporary safety deserve neither one. And that is what America has consistently been doing.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 01/30/13 11:03 PM
15. You cant 'fix' crime. We can only decrease crime or increase crime, or make criminals easier to catch and prosecute. Fewer guns leaves less POTENTIAL for gun violence, its simple mathematics. Most people dont want to disarm law abiding citizens. Firstly...fewer guns in the hands of the responsible actually opens the door to more violence be it gun or otherwise, because only the criminals will have access to the weapons in question. Look at any culture that has limited them to the responsible, and you'll see that fact. Hell, just look at Chicago! They have some of the strictest gun laws in all the country and yet have one of the highest murder rates. That's not a coincidence. Sweeping gun control just does not work, flat out. And no most people don't want to disarm law abiding, but the road the hell is paved with good intentions. If you give the state enough rope, eventually they will hang you with it. It starts with one thing, but ends with something else entirely, always has.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Thu 01/31/13 02:10 AM Edited by Conrad_73 on Thu 01/31/13 02:32 AM
And I do not write what I right to change neandrathal minds. I write what I write so those who feel the same way, know that they are on the right track and others are there who feel the same way. So they do not get beaten down with all the fearmongering and hatemongering of the right wingers in the world. how about all the fearmongering and hatemongering of the Left-wingers in the world? And they are definitely in the Majority,and Brainbrothers of the Rightwingers! Both Factions anti-Liberty!

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Thu 01/31/13 02:30 AM
another one of those Fibs!

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 01/31/13 05:59 AM
another one of those Fibs! lets repeal speed limits too,, doesnt stop people from speeding when they see the posted signs and lets repeal trespassing laws, it doesnt stop the criminal minded from trespassing anyway but, oh WAIT,,,,those speed lmiits make it possible on the books to stop at least SOME of those speeding idiots before they cause serious injury or accident and,,those trespassing laws do stop law abiding citizens from trespassing and they help to capture and charge the criminals who wish to ignore the signs before they potentially cause damage to someones property,,,,, ,,,see where IM going with this NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE, DUH! so no, laws dont STOP The crimes from happening, they just make those crimes CLEARLY Crimes which can be easier prosecuted and deterred through enforcement of the law

willing2 Joined Sun 06/08/08 Posts: 20221	Thu 01/31/13 06:08 AM
another one of those Fibs! lets repeal speed limits too,, doesnt stop people from speeding when they see the posted signs and lets repeal trespassing laws, it doesnt stop the criminal minded from trespassing anyway but, oh WAIT,,,,those speed lmiits make it possible on the books to stop at least SOME of those speeding idiots before they cause serious injury or accident and,,those trespassing laws do stop law abiding citizens from trespassing and they help to capture and charge the criminals who wish to ignore the signs before they potentially cause damage to someones property,,,,, ,,,see where IM going with this NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE, DUH! so no, laws dont STOP The crimes from happening, they just make those crimes CLEARLY Crimes which can be easier prosecuted and deterred through enforcement of the law Anti-gun laws will just make it easier for the criminal and make criminals out of those who would do what it takes to protect themselves, their families and people in public. Rumor has it, a senator from Texas is starting an Impeachment process agin' Hussein.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Thu 01/31/13 06:11 AM Edited by Conrad_73 on Thu 01/31/13 06:14 AM
another one of those Fibs! lets repeal speed limits too,, doesnt stop people from speeding when they see the posted signs and lets repeal trespassing laws, it doesnt stop the criminal minded from trespassing anyway but, oh WAIT,,,,those speed lmiits make it possible on the books to stop at least SOME of those speeding idiots before they cause serious injury or accident and,,those trespassing laws do stop law abiding citizens from trespassing and they help to capture and charge the criminals who wish to ignore the signs before they potentially cause damage to someones property,,,,, ,,,see where IM going with this NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE, DUH! so no, laws dont STOP The crimes from happening, they just make those crimes CLEARLY Crimes which can be easier prosecuted and deterred through enforcement of the law yep,that cussed Deterrence that just doesn't want to happen! What strange Land are you living in? Besides,those Gangsters on the Piccie are Government-Thugs! yep,the Police is there to protect you from the Criminals,so no evil will befall you! Lawenforcement is strictly retroactive! Usually they have to bring Bodybags if you're unlucky,or if you failed to protect yourself!

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 01/31/13 06:12 AM
another one of those Fibs! lets repeal speed limits too,, doesnt stop people from speeding when they see the posted signs and lets repeal trespassing laws, it doesnt stop the criminal minded from trespassing anyway but, oh WAIT,,,,those speed lmiits make it possible on the books to stop at least SOME of those speeding idiots before they cause serious injury or accident and,,those trespassing laws do stop law abiding citizens from trespassing and they help to capture and charge the criminals who wish to ignore the signs before they potentially cause damage to someones property,,,,, ,,,see where IM going with this NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE, DUH! so no, laws dont STOP The crimes from happening, they just make those crimes CLEARLY Crimes which can be easier prosecuted and deterred through enforcement of the law Anti-gun laws will just make it easier for the criminal and make criminals out of those who would do what it takes to protect themselves, their families and people in public. Rumor has it, a senator from Texas is starting an Impeachment process agin' Hussein. I dont know what an anti-gun law is. common sense legislation that looks at the CURRENT situation(just like immigration is doing) and how our culture has evolved (or devolved), depending upon subjective opinion) is more what Im interested in seeing happen in DC take away guns? No take away food? No take away freedom of speech? NO regulating speech (criminal to encite to violence),,,YES regulating food (having standards for which food must meet to be sold in USA) ...YES regulating guns (having standards for guns that are sold in the USA and mandating/enforcing criminal and psyohological checks and proper training for those purchasing guns)....YES

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Thu 01/31/13 06:23 AM
another one of those Fibs! lets repeal speed limits too,, doesnt stop people from speeding when they see the posted signs and lets repeal trespassing laws, it doesnt stop the criminal minded from trespassing anyway but, oh WAIT,,,,those speed lmiits make it possible on the books to stop at least SOME of those speeding idiots before they cause serious injury or accident and,,those trespassing laws do stop law abiding citizens from trespassing and they help to capture and charge the criminals who wish to ignore the signs before they potentially cause damage to someones property,,,,, ,,,see where IM going with this NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE, DUH! so no, laws dont STOP The crimes from happening, they just make those crimes CLEARLY Crimes which can be easier prosecuted and deterred through enforcement of the law Anti-gun laws will just make it easier for the criminal and make criminals out of those who would do what it takes to protect themselves, their families and people in public. Rumor has it, a senator from Texas is starting an Impeachment process agin' Hussein. I dont know what an anti-gun law is. common sense legislation that looks at the CURRENT situation(just like immigration is doing) and how our culture has evolved (or devolved), depending upon subjective opinion) is more what Im interested in seeing happen in DC take away guns? No take away food? No take away freedom of speech? NO regulating speech (criminal to encite to violence),,,YES regulating food (having standards for which food must meet to be sold in USA) ...YES regulating guns (having standards for guns that are sold in the USA and mandating/enforcing criminal and psyohological checks and proper training for those purchasing guns)....YES yep,psychological checks by unbalanced Individuals! and the really sad truth is this. Besides,it's the Criminals who don't give a Crap about all the Laws you want to saddle the lawabiding Citizen with! Get that through your Head! THE CRIMINALS;NOT THE LAWABIDING CITIZEN! Regardless how many Hairs you choose to split!

willing2 Joined Sun 06/08/08 Posts: 20221	Thu 01/31/13 06:23 AM
another one of those Fibs! lets repeal speed limits too,, doesnt stop people from speeding when they see the posted signs and lets repeal trespassing laws, it doesnt stop the criminal minded from trespassing anyway but, oh WAIT,,,,those speed lmiits make it possible on the books to stop at least SOME of those speeding idiots before they cause serious injury or accident and,,those trespassing laws do stop law abiding citizens from trespassing and they help to capture and charge the criminals who wish to ignore the signs before they potentially cause damage to someones property,,,,, ,,,see where IM going with this NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE, DUH! so no, laws dont STOP The crimes from happening, they just make those crimes CLEARLY Crimes which can be easier prosecuted and deterred through enforcement of the law Anti-gun laws will just make it easier for the criminal and make criminals out of those who would do what it takes to protect themselves, their families and people in public. Rumor has it, a senator from Texas is starting an Impeachment process agin' Hussein. I dont know what an anti-gun law is. common sense legislation <<<<DC, like liberals have no idea what this is. regulating speech (criminal to encite to violence),,,YES <<<Shabitch in Jail? He's calling for killing and skinning white babies. Is that hate or love speech? regulating guns <<Ban all semi-autos? Do Liberals even have a clue? Liberal BS.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Thu 01/31/13 06:54 AM
You got some 'splaining to do,Lucy!

mightymoe Joined Sun 11/19/06 Posts: 37362	Thu 01/31/13 08:06 AM
15? is this like the top 15 lies? the way i see it, if a lib is talking, they are lying...

TBRich Joined Fri 11/07/08 Posts: 8232	Thu 01/31/13 08:28 AM
another one of those Fibs! How it works is most punks on the street, who stick a gun in your face, 8 out of 10 times, will not have it loaded to prevent harsher criminal penalties.

willing2 Joined Sun 06/08/08 Posts: 20221	Thu 01/31/13 08:38 AM
another one of those Fibs! How it works is most punks on the street, who stick a gun in your face, 8 out of 10 times, will not have it loaded to prevent harsher criminal penalties. That's how it works??? Loaded or unloaded. Using a gun in a robbery carry's a stiffer penalty. Don't believe it? Look it up. Armed robbery is a type of theft that involves the presence, use, or appearance of a weapon. Generally, this crime requires that the perpetrator uses a weapon or pretends to have a weapon in order to frighten or intimidate a victim into allowing the perpetrator to take and leave with the victim's property. This crime is usually distinct from theft, both by the presence of the weapon and the requirement that the property must be taken directly from the victim. Most of the time, armed robbery is classified as a felony. This is due to the serious nature of threatening a victim's well-being with a weapon, which is usually enough to raise the profile of the incident to a violent crime, even if no actual violence was perpetrated. The type of weapon used may also influence charging and possible sentencing. In some regions, the use of a gun is considered the most serious form of armed robbery and may result in the strictest sentencing guidelines. Though use of a firearm may bring the most serious charges, any type of weapon may result in a crime being deemed an armed robbery. Weapons may include manufactured items such as knives, or may include dangerous objects such as rocks, broken bottles, pipes, or chains. Generally, a crime can be charged as armed if the robber intended to make the victim feel threatened by the presence of an object that could be seen as a weapon.