Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: 'Under God' upheld again
TBRich Joined Fri 11/07/08 Posts: 8232	Thu 11/01/12 01:19 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:25 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it And that is what people should do.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48963	Thu 11/01/12 01:26 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it I agree, and I do not promote daily public displays of piety. However, this thread is specifically about the use of two words in the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. People are free to say those words, and people are free to not say those words.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:28 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it I agree, and I do not promote daily public displays of piety. However, this thread is specifically about the use of two words in the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. People are free to say those words, and people are free to not say those words. As it has always been. People are free to say them or not say them. That is not the issue though. The issue is the official public conducting the pledge with or without those words. I vote that they don't conduct the PUBLIC PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AT ALL.

CeriseRose Joined Mon 08/02/10 Posts: 6220	Thu 11/01/12 01:29 PM
I agree with keeping prayer and pledges out of the public arena. Pray to God and make your pledges in private ceremonies. Don't spring them on an unknown audience as some expected ritual that will single a person out for not being compliant if they don't want to participate. In other words, pray in church or in private, not as a public ritual. Prayer in the public arena is what gave the American people consolation, hope, and courage to believe we could survive as a nation after the FIRST 911. An opinion I disagree with. It is a "Spirit" that we are strengthened by...has little do with money... and nothing to do with force. Prayer in the public arena is an assumption that the public are all Christians. News flash... they are not. So how would you feel if a public arena conducted a prayer thanking Lucifer the light giver, or the flying spaghetti monster, or the goddess Bast or some other God? We interact with those of that persuasions daily in the public arena. But this nation has never been united under the banner of lucifer, nor a spaghetti monster. They'd have to go to a rock concert for that. I know people who have attended music concerts who have been shocked at the mantras given to false deities during the show.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:32 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/01/12 01:33 PM
I agree with keeping prayer and pledges out of the public arena. Pray to God and make your pledges in private ceremonies. Don't spring them on an unknown audience as some expected ritual that will single a person out for not being compliant if they don't want to participate. In other words, pray in church or in private, not as a public ritual. Prayer in the public arena is what gave the American people consolation, hope, and courage to believe we could survive as a nation after the FIRST 911. An opinion I disagree with. It is a "Spirit" that we are strengthened by...has little do with money... and nothing to do with force. Prayer in the public arena is an assumption that the public are all Christians. News flash... they are not. So how would you feel if a public arena conducted a prayer thanking Lucifer the light giver, or the flying spaghetti monster, or the goddess Bast or some other God? We interact with those of that persuasions daily in the public arena. But this nation has never been united under the banner of lucifer, nor a spaghetti monster. They'd have to go to a rock concert for that. I know people who have attended music concerts who have been shocked at the mantras given to false deities during the show. Shocked? Why? False dieties? How do you know they are false? That is simply YOUR belief. And Times change. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom of religion as long as it is the Christian religion.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48963	Thu 11/01/12 01:32 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it I agree, and I do not promote daily public displays of piety. However, this thread is specifically about the use of two words in the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. People are free to say those words, and people are free to not say those words. As it has always been. People are free to say them or not say them. That is not the issue though. The issue is the official public conducting the pledge with or without those words. I vote that they don't conduct the PUBLIC PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AT ALL. Are you feeling hostile toward the USA?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:35 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/01/12 01:36 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it I agree, and I do not promote daily public displays of piety. However, this thread is specifically about the use of two words in the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. People are free to say those words, and people are free to not say those words. As it has always been. People are free to say them or not say them. That is not the issue though. The issue is the official public conducting the pledge with or without those words. I vote that they don't conduct the PUBLIC PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AT ALL. Are you feeling hostile toward the USA? I am a loyal AMERICAN. The USA (The United States of America) is a corporation run by criminals. I will gladly recite a pledge to America, the country.

CeriseRose Joined Mon 08/02/10 Posts: 6220	Thu 11/01/12 01:40 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it And that is what people should do. So, are you suggesting Christians get in a closet... while everything that's been in the closet should be let out? Keeping prayer in a closet is not what Jesus was implying anyhow.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Thu 11/01/12 01:41 PM Edited by Conrad_73 on Thu 11/01/12 01:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_deism http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1531312 ^^^^^^ only the Abstract! You can D/L the whole Paper though!

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48963	Thu 11/01/12 01:42 PM
Folks, I don't know how it is in other nations, but in the USA, militant atheists want to prevent anyone from expressing in public a belief in the existence of deity. That is what the "Pledge of Allegiance" issue is all about. As long as people aren't being forced by the government to say "under God" while saying the pledge, there shouldn't be a problem with saying the pledge. Trying to prevent people from saying "under God" when they want to is nothing but an attempt to censor speech.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48963	Thu 11/01/12 01:43 PM
The USA (The United States of America) is a corporation run by criminals. I will gladly recite a pledge to America, the country.

CeriseRose Joined Mon 08/02/10 Posts: 6220	Thu 11/01/12 01:47 PM
I agree with keeping prayer and pledges out of the public arena. Pray to God and make your pledges in private ceremonies. Don't spring them on an unknown audience as some expected ritual that will single a person out for not being compliant if they don't want to participate. In other words, pray in church or in private, not as a public ritual. Prayer in the public arena is what gave the American people consolation, hope, and courage to believe we could survive as a nation after the FIRST 911. An opinion I disagree with. It is a "Spirit" that we are strengthened by...has little do with money... and nothing to do with force. Prayer in the public arena is an assumption that the public are all Christians. News flash... they are not. So how would you feel if a public arena conducted a prayer thanking Lucifer the light giver, or the flying spaghetti monster, or the goddess Bast or some other God? We interact with those of that persuasions daily in the public arena. But this nation has never been united under the banner of lucifer, nor a spaghetti monster. They'd have to go to a rock concert for that. I know people who have attended music concerts who have been shocked at the mantras given to false deities during the show. Shocked? Why? False dieties? How do you know they are false? That is simply YOUR belief. And Times change. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom of religion as long as it is the Christian religion. A sphaghetti monster is a perfect example of a false deity. And lucifer is a created being...not a deity though some deify him.

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Thu 11/01/12 01:48 PM
Folks, I don't know how it is in other nations, but in the USA, militant atheists want to prevent anyone from expressing in public a belief in the existence of deity. That is what the "Pledge of Allegiance" issue is all about. As long as people aren't being forced by the government to say "under God" while saying the pledge, there shouldn't be a problem with saying the pledge. Trying to prevent people from saying "under God" when they want to is nothing but an attempt to censor speech. That's just another facet of freedom. Why should anyone care what others believe? Nobody is forced, or intimidated into saying either.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:53 PM
The USA (The United States of America) is a corporation run by criminals. I will gladly recite a pledge to America, the country. Okay slaves, here is your new pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag with the yellow trim. And to the corporate entity that we named the United States of America. And to world domination for which it stands One COMPANY, Indivisible, under Elite control Two big to fail, Giving no liberty, freedom or justice for the working class

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:55 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/01/12 02:05 PM
I agree with keeping prayer and pledges out of the public arena. Pray to God and make your pledges in private ceremonies. Don't spring them on an unknown audience as some expected ritual that will single a person out for not being compliant if they don't want to participate. In other words, pray in church or in private, not as a public ritual. Prayer in the public arena is what gave the American people consolation, hope, and courage to believe we could survive as a nation after the FIRST 911. An opinion I disagree with. It is a "Spirit" that we are strengthened by...has little do with money... and nothing to do with force. Prayer in the public arena is an assumption that the public are all Christians. News flash... they are not. So how would you feel if a public arena conducted a prayer thanking Lucifer the light giver, or the flying spaghetti monster, or the goddess Bast or some other God? We interact with those of that persuasions daily in the public arena. But this nation has never been united under the banner of lucifer, nor a spaghetti monster. They'd have to go to a rock concert for that. I know people who have attended music concerts who have been shocked at the mantras given to false deities during the show. Shocked? Why? False dieties? How do you know they are false? That is simply YOUR belief. And Times change. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom of religion as long as it is the Christian religion. A sphaghetti monster is a perfect example of a false deity. And lucifer is a created being...not a deity though some deify him. Yes, in your opinion, but it is an illustration of what some people think of regular ideas religions have about their deity. One is just as hard to prove as the other. You say the spaghetti monster is a false deity, but if people really believed in it and worship it, then it can be as real as yours to them. As much as you believe their god is a false deity, they think yours is. So why would they want to be trapped in a room while you conduct a public prayer to your 'false' deity? ESPECIALLY IF they believe your deity is a false deity?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 01:59 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/01/12 02:01 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it And that is what people should do. So, are you suggesting Christians get in a closet... while everything that's been in the closet should be let out? Keeping prayer in a closet is not what Jesus was implying anyhow. No, if people want to pray in a public restaurant on on the street, then that is fine with me. It should not be a problem with most people. What I am saying is in a crowd of mixed audience, public conducted prayer -from a podium etc-- to a captive audience is rude and assuming. It assumes that everyone in the audience is approving of that belief and it publicly endorses a belief that should be personal.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48963	Thu 11/01/12 02:04 PM
The USA (The United States of America) is a corporation run by criminals. I will gladly recite a pledge to America, the country. Okay slaves, here is your new pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag with the yellow trim. And to the corporate entity that we named the United States of America. And to world domination for which it stands One COMPANY, Indivisible, under Elite control Two big to fail, Giving no liberty, freedom or justice for the working class

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/01/12 02:08 PM
Next time (if ever) you have to appear in court, and before you cross the threshold into the hot seat where the "defendant" faces the judge, ask the judge this question: "Is this a constitutional court?" And then take note of the flag in the room. It has a yellow trim, right? That is a corporate flag and you are in a corporate court.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48963	Thu 11/01/12 02:11 PM
Next time (if ever) you have to appear in court, and before you cross the threshold into the hot seat where the "defendant" faces the judge, ask the judge this question: "Is this a constitutional court?" And then take note of the flag in the room. It has a yellow trim, right? That is a corporate flag and you are in a corporate court. What an imagination!