Community > Science & Philosophy

Topic: There is no scientific evidence for consciousness.
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 10/28/12 07:01 PM
Newsflash: Time May Not Exist No one keeps track of time better than Ferenc Krausz. In his lab at the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, he has clocked the shortest time intervals ever observed. Krausz uses ultraviolet laser pulses to track the absurdly brief quantum leaps of electrons within atoms. The events he probes last for about 100 attoseconds, or 100 quintillionths of a second. For a little perspective, 100 attoseconds is to one second as a second is to 300 million years. But even Krausz works far from the frontier of time. There is a temporal realm called the Planck scale, where even attoseconds drag by like eons. It marks the edge of known physics, a region where distances and intervals are so short that the very concepts of time and space start to break down. Planck time—the smallest unit of time that has any physical meaning—is 10-43 second, less than a trillionth of a trillionth of an attosecond. Beyond that? Tempus incognito. At least for now. Efforts to understand time below the Planck scale have led to an exceedingly strange juncture in physics. The problem, in brief, is that time may not exist at the most fundamental level of physical reality. If so, then what is time? And why is it so obviously and tyrannically omnipresent in our own experience? “The meaning of time has become terribly problematic in contemporary physics,” says Simon Saunders, a philosopher of physics at the University of Oxford. “The situation is so uncomfortable that by far the best thing to do is declare oneself an agnostic.” http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 10/28/12 07:19 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 10/28/12 07:20 PM
My advice to Ferenc Krausz would be to stop looking for time and stop trying to measure time because it does not exist. Start looking at consciousness. That will really blow their minds when they get into that subject. Science can't touch it.

TexasScoundrel Joined Wed 10/29/08 Posts: 3693	Sun 10/28/12 11:03 PM Edited by TexasScoundrel on Sun 10/28/12 11:25 PM
TexasScoundrel said: "Until something "beyond physical reality" can be shown to exist there just isn't anything to talk about except coming up with a way to prove it's there." If you believe that Texas, prove to me that time is there... in physical reality. Show me that time exists. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? There's no point. You're not going to change my mind until there's hard evidence. And me attempting to change your mind would be like telling a morman Joe Smith was a con man (even though he was convicted as one before starting his church). But, you carry on chasing those unicorns.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Mon 10/29/12 12:53 AM Edited by Conrad_73 on Mon 10/29/12 12:54 AM
My advice to Ferenc Krausz would be to stop looking for time and stop trying to measure time because it does not exist. Start looking at consciousness. That will really blow their minds when they get into that subject. Science can't touch it. OMG,the Guy measured something non-existent! Damn he's good!

Rawrr_Girl Joined Sun 10/04/09 Posts: 4431	Mon 10/29/12 03:03 AM
I guess there's no such thing then as being late. Woohoo!! Now we can turn up whenever we want. Throw your clocks away. Oh wait. Did I say 'Clock'? Err, no such thing as time. cough

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Mon 10/29/12 03:42 AM Edited by Conrad_73 on Mon 10/29/12 04:27 AM
I guess there's no such thing then as being late. Woohoo!! Now we can turn up whenever we want. Throw your clocks away. Oh wait. Did I say 'Clock'? Err, no such thing as time. cough Clocks are just a Superstition! And that Superstition behind me on the Wall is merrily ticking away those Seconds!

metalwing Joined Fri 11/14/08 Posts: 26218	Mon 10/29/12 03:49 AM
There is no time for someone to learn physics? ... or there isn't that much time in the universe?

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Mon 10/29/12 05:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO1rMeYnOmM well,Jim might have been on to something!

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 11:14 AM
TexasScoundrel said: "Until something "beyond physical reality" can be shown to exist there just isn't anything to talk about except coming up with a way to prove it's there." If you believe that Texas, prove to me that time is there... in physical reality. Show me that time exists. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? There's no point. You're not going to change my mind until there's hard evidence. And me attempting to change your mind would be like telling a morman Joe Smith was a con man (even though he was convicted as one before starting his church). But, you carry on chasing those unicorns. Well you said that time is physical and that it exist in physical reality didn't you? Do you have any support for that statement? Show me that time exists in physical reality. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? If time itself is a dimension, please describe it. Anyone?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 11:16 AM
There is no time for someone to learn physics? ... or there isn't that much time in the universe? Okay Mr. physics expert you answer the questions. Show me that time exists in physical reality. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? If time itself is a dimension, please describe it. Anyone?

metalwing Joined Fri 11/14/08 Posts: 26218	Mon 10/29/12 11:20 AM
TexasScoundrel said: "Until something "beyond physical reality" can be shown to exist there just isn't anything to talk about except coming up with a way to prove it's there." If you believe that Texas, prove to me that time is there... in physical reality. Show me that time exists. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? There's no point. You're not going to change my mind until there's hard evidence. And me attempting to change your mind would be like telling a morman Joe Smith was a con man (even though he was convicted as one before starting his church). But, you carry on chasing those unicorns. Well you said that time is physical and that it exist in physical reality didn't you? Do you have any support for that statement? Show me that time exists in physical reality. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? If time itself is a dimension, please describe it. Anyone? Your lack of understanding of the concept is complete. Time cannot be separated from space, hence the term space/time. The concept has been verified by Einstein's equations and is commonly used in the GPS systems of the world. The measurement of all four dimensions is a part of our life and BASIC science. If you can't understand the physics of why explosives could not have been used on 9/11, this topic is WAY out of your league.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 11:32 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 10/29/12 11:34 AM
TexasScoundrel said: "Until something "beyond physical reality" can be shown to exist there just isn't anything to talk about except coming up with a way to prove it's there." If you believe that Texas, prove to me that time is there... in physical reality. Show me that time exists. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? There's no point. You're not going to change my mind until there's hard evidence. And me attempting to change your mind would be like telling a morman Joe Smith was a con man (even though he was convicted as one before starting his church). But, you carry on chasing those unicorns. Well you said that time is physical and that it exist in physical reality didn't you? Do you have any support for that statement? Show me that time exists in physical reality. Where is it? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are its dimensions? If time itself is a dimension, please describe it. Anyone? Your lack of understanding of the concept is complete. Time cannot be separated from space, hence the term space/time. The concept has been verified by Einstein's equations and is commonly used in the GPS systems of the world. The measurement of all four dimensions is a part of our life and BASIC science. If you can't understand the physics of why explosives could not have been used on 9/11, this topic is WAY out of your league. Good for you! I agree with you that time cannot be separated from space. That is one of the reasons I also say that time does NOT EXIST -- as an entity in space. Now that we agree that time cannot be separated from space, you should also agree that spacetime is one thing. If spacetime is one thing, then you cannot separate it and call it two things or two separate dimensions. Which is what you have implied here when you said "The measurement of all four dimensions is a part of our life and BASIC science." You are implying here that there are four dimensions, which means that you have separated time from space as another dimension. How can that be possible if you just said that time and space cannot be separated? If spacetime is a single thing, then it is not a separate dimension. Spacetime is one thing. If you can't understand the physics of why explosives could not have been used on 9/11, this topic is WAY out of your league. Please stay on topic and do not bring up something from an older discussion. I realize you have a grudge against me personally but I would like to stay on topic.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 11:38 AM
Matter, energy, space and time are all one thing. (MEST) There is no matter without energy. There is no space without matter, and there is no time without space and matter.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 11:48 AM
When you look closely at time, you will find that it does not exist and you will find that you cannot find the ultimate place (location) to draw a line between the past and the future. All measurements of time are mental concepts created by the mind. They are not objective reality, they are concepts. 100 attoseconds is to one second as a second is to 300 million years. Why? Because we say so. We decided and divided according to our own methods of measurement. At the most fundamental level of physical reality, time may not exist at all. What we need to measure time is .... something else that it is relative to. Light perhaps? "There is a temporal realm called the Planck scale, where even attoseconds drag by like eons." "It marks the edge of known physics, a region where distances and intervals are so short that the very concepts of time and space start to break down." "Planck time—the smallest unit of time that has any physical meaning—is 10-43 second, less than a trillionth of a trillionth of an attosecond. Beyond that? Tempus incognito. At least for now."

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 12:00 PM
When you look closely at matter, you will find that it does not exist either. There is no solid building block that makes up the alleged solid material world. This of course is problematic because if time does not exist then neither does space. If matter does not exist, then what is all of this we call "reality?" That is the big question. Is it a simulation? A holographic universe? A persistent illusion? A dream? A projection?

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Mon 10/29/12 01:12 PM Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Mon 10/29/12 01:18 PM
People locked inside of their objective prisons hate those who are not. Objectivity is a prison? That's absurd. It is subjectivity that creates limitations. Shouldn't this be in the BS section, I mean paranormal and mysterious phenomena?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 01:36 PM
Consciousness is a mystery. But it is also an undeniable fact.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Mon 10/29/12 02:17 PM
Consciousness is a mystery. But it is also an undeniable fact. what would you consider "Scientific Evidence"?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 02:23 PM
Consciousness is a mystery. But it is also an undeniable fact. what would you consider "Scientific Evidence"? The same as any scientist. Trying to find scientific evidence for consciousness, would be about the same as trying to find scientific evidence for god. Does science have scientific evidence for god? What would they consider to be "Scientific Evidence" for god?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/29/12 03:01 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 10/29/12 03:01 PM
The difference between consciousness and "god" is that we can't deny that consciousness exists because we are conscious. Well, I am anyway. I can't be certain about anyone else. Perhaps everyone else is a figment of my imagination.