Lust has replaced love in our time. If a man truely loves a woman, I see no reason why he can't wait.

I do not think the bible specifically forbids sex before marriage, I dont even think the bible is specific about what constitutes a 'marriage'

there are several of Gods people in the bible who 'know' a woman who then becomes their wife


it was even possible for Jacob to be fooled, by taking his 'wife' at night time . not realizing till daylight that the wife was not the one he worked for,,,which is a mistake that couldnt work if there had been a marriage 'ceremony' as we think of it in modern times,,,

I think the point was for their to be a commitment between the two partis and God,,,, the legalities/traditions are secondary

just my opinion , formed because there is no specific explanation in the bible otherwise, and it seems that Jesus was more about the meaning than the tradition of things,,,

Love this! ^^^^^^^

I've never been one to care about what others think, I've always known in my heart it is exactly the way you described. It's a personal commitment between the two parties (and God)...

So what does the bible say about fornication?

Proverbs 6:26
New International Version (NIV)

26 For a prostitute can be had for a loaf of bread,
but another man’s wife preys on your very life.


Hmmm, better to buy a whore than be damned?

The author of the book of proverb made a comparison with going to a prostitute to give an idea of how dangerous laying another mans wife could be. He made that comparison based on the fact that a man patronizing a whore is and remains an act with a serious moral implication.

1Cor.6:18 (KJV)
FLEE FORNICATION. EVERY SIN THAT A MAN DOETH IS WITHOUT THE BODY; BUT HE THAT COMMITTETH FORNICATION SINNETH AGAINST HIS OWN BODY.

Whose morals? Yours? Gods? Mine?

Do you reserve the right to judge my heart if me and another make a commitment to each other?

God has a standard. We have the right to choose how we live our lifes however, if we wanna live it to please God then it must be by His own standard. God do not care if you are acting based on mutual consent. If God made sex for the married He is not gonna change that just because it doesn't suit us.

I don't need you, the Pope, John Doe, or some book to tell me whether or not I'm married. I have God's law written on my heart so I and the one I choose make that decision.

Do you think God's standard is written in the Bible?

Yes the bibles contains Gods standard. However, I stated that we have the sole right to live outside of those standards. Gods doesn't force people to live like He pleases. He only keep a judgement fit for all acts He calls sin.

Jeremiah 8:8
New International Version (NIV)

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?


Ezekiel 22:26-29
King James Version (KJV)

26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken.

29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.


1 Corinthians 4:3-5
New International Version (NIV)

3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

I feel no need to judge those who observe the pagan sun god's day of worship (Sunday) but I will NOT allow those false teachers to tell me who I am allowed to marry and whether or not I am actually married. Nor do I require permission of them to follow the laws which are written on MY heart as well as yours. You are more than welcome to follow those rules and traditions of men, but you do not have authority to dictate "God's law" to anyone except yourself.

I do not answer to any man...

AMEN...

good question actually,, where does the bible actually define what 'fornication' is?

and for the biblical scholars,,

Jesus himself describes 'paper' that designates the end of a marriage (divorce)

but where does Jesus or scripture designate a 'paper' that designates the beginning of one?

Yeshua goes a bit futher than that I think. He points out that it was Moses who gave that law and that from the beginning it wasn't so...

I Agree, and all unrighteousness is Sin. Those who love God will keep his commands. They are not grievious.

Deuteronomy 4:1-2
New International Version (NIV)

4 Now, Israel, hear the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.


Moses is guilty of the bolded words above. Do you deny this?

All unrighteousness is Sin. God inspired man to write the Scripture for man to follow.

Why would you avoid the question?

Is it righteous to go against the will of God?
Moses directly went against that "law" 3 times according to scripture...