MsHarmony...no need to make a nusiance out of yourself by living with the Creflo pack....it may result in Creflo trying to spank you

but it should be obvious that whatever their personal balance are, that it resulted in Creflo either raising a daughter that would lie about her Father beating her, or Creflo actually doing what his daughter accused him of...

so what was your point about the benefits of spanking?



you once asked did The New Testament ever make spanking a sin ....didn't Jesus say those that are without sin cast the first spank....oops... I meant cast the first stone ...

you mean, homes with spanking can turn out less than absolutely perfect children?


I concur


show me a home WITHOUT spanking that did that and I may see the relevance of your point,,,



benefits do not mean that a child will NEVER do anything wrong,,,,

as to the stoning,, stoning resulted in death, a different scenario than being swatted on the behind

Thou shalt not murder is a COMMANDMENT from God

thou shalt not apank is not,,,

no MsHarmony..... I'm saying that in the case of Creflo your "balance theory" falls flat, because spanking in Creflo's home spawned a daughter that would either lie about her father or Creflo already had unaddressed anger issues and would release his fury under the disguise of spankings ...proof of this would be if he had actually choked slap and beat his 15 year old daughter



MsHarmony.you keep trying to deflect with crazy requests like show you a home without spanking or that you would have to live in the home to explain their personal balance.....

wouldn't it come down to whether homes without spanking produce Adults that are willing to strike children to solve conflicts ...

because as you clearly pointed out homes such as yours clearly produce Adults such as yourself that are oh so willing to strike children ...



right...so what's the points of hitting them......imagine everytime you did something wrong you received the benefit of being stuck ...



I'm pretty sure some of those stones hit the children's behinds

but anyway I was making reference to The New Testament as to if spankings was a sin or not ....Jesus said who is without sin cast the first stone ...the stone would be used to strike the person..the same as a hand

Ah, but choking and slapping else where then the behind is not a spanking, that's when it turns to abuse and not discipline.

I Cant believe anyone is really this,,,,,

whatever


I will conclude that this thread is a joke

with the 'whats the point of discipline if it doesnt produce a perfect chld' logic,,,,


stoning a person is CRUEL AND TORTUROUS AND MEANT TO KILL A PERSON

a different thing then discipline in love meant to teach and direct to live another day,,,

Cowboy...Creflo was also accused of kicking his daughter ...

so if he kicked his daughter's butt...then to you it's a spanking?...

well since the thread is about Creflo, a Man of God, a preacher, a teacher or morals being arrested for beating the crap out of his 15 year old daughter...then you're right...it is a joke



so your logic is to hit them and still not produce a perfect child?



MsHarmony...can you deny that back in those biblical days killing unruly children was the politically correct way to discipline those little monsters ..God handed those laws to Moses...are you willing to admit that God is cruel?



MsHarmony...you're not grasping Jesus's message of getting stone

it's the same as Jesus saying those that have not made mistakes cast the first spank ...would you be able to in all good conscious cast the first spank in front of Jesus?

No, kicking would not be spanking either. This is a child we're speaking of, spanking a simple resort to a punishment. It leaves a little burn for a little while, but doesn't seriously injure the child nor leave bruises. Toosh may be red for a little while, but that will face in 30 mins or so.

my logic is to do what is necessary to discipline and support them so as to increase their chances of navigating their adult life

DOING something, as opposed to dropping them out and letting them raise themself with the exception of shelter and food being provided by someone else


I admit that God is just and justice isnt always easy or painless

I would be perfectly able to spank in front of Jesus
I Trust Jesus could determine loving discipline from vindictive and murderous stoning,,,

Mr. Funches God did not hand all to Moses.

God handed but 10 commandants to Moses.

The rest of those laws are what Moses himself wrote to govern the Tribes of Israel.

Gods finger wrote but those that were on stone.

so all the parents with no arms that use their feet the same as parents with arms would use their hands would be abusing their children if they kick them for discipline ....are you denying these parents their rights?



but yet being a child makes no difference when it comes to your willingness to strike them



so again how would you know that this is the method you are following unless the child fills out a questionnaire

1..when Father Cowboy spanked your Toosh how long did your Toosh burn
2..when Father Cowboy spanked your Toosh was the burn big or little
3..do you believe that Father Cowboy's spank seriously injure your Toosh
4..was your Toosh red for less than 30 minutes, more than an hour, or longer than an hour after Father Cowboy spanked you

NOTE
just in case the parent do not check their child periodically after spankings the child will require a hand mirror to answer question 4

wasn't your logic also Creflo's logic as he was choking his daughter



MsHarmony...so if you can't beat your children then one of the options that you would consider is to drop them off and let them raise themself ....



so you believe that you are using the hand of God when you spank



just like the biblical people would be perfectly able to cast the first stone but didn't because they understood his message



Jesus require that you first hate your child and yourself before you could be his disciple ...what better way to show this than to lovingly discipline your child with a stone up aside their head....

AdventureBegins....the Ten Commandments bundle pack is a myth, there were far more than just Ten Commandments

but for the sake of argument about the Laws presented by Moses...were not the laws of "stoning unruly children to death" not inspired by God just as everything in the Bible was inspired by God

only reason stoning unruly children to death is illegal today is not due to religious intervention or a sense of morality but due to secular governmental intervention

Stoning UNRULY children Funches. That would be the children that are now locked away in those correctional homes and stuff like that. The children that make you go to your last resort to try and correct them. We're not just talking about a kid that stole a pack of gum here.

And the law we have against it today may very well be from intervention of "religious" people. These laws you are speaking of are from the old covenant. But as we very well know from going it over and over and over, those laws no longer apply to us, for Jesus came and fulfilled it. And we are now saved by grace and not by works. There is no longer a commandment to stone your child or anyone else.

people with no arms? seriously?

seems you take child raising as a joke and a simple black and white issue to make jokes about,,,


chldren need love (some may hug, or kiss, or say the words I love you)

they need support and motivation

they need food, shelther, and clothing

they need discipline and guidance


there are too many different ways to provide ANY of those things for any one way to be 'universally' correct for everyone

Parents should do whats RIGHT for them and not be too concerned with parenting 'experts' (most of whom have probably barely taken care of a pet longer than five years let alone raise a child its whole life )

or other parents who found other ways work for them

as I dont begrudge those who use 'time outs',, IF THAT WORKED for their children

but, contrary to popular belief, all children are not the same and all things do not 'work' on all children

Im not interested in arguing for argument sakes, I am/have raised healthy , happy, productive children as my parents did with me,, spanking included.

For those who discipline without spanking and are successful, KUDOS!

for those who even HAVE CHILDREN IN THE FIRST PLACE,, do what works for you and try to stop assuming what should work for someone elses family when it comes to the balance needed for the difficult task of raising up a life that can navigate the world,,,,,,

wouldn't a spanking also be the last resort of a parent, now imagine if stoning were once again legal



right..God said thou shalt not steal unless it's things like a pack of gum



Cowboy...it's prophecies that are full filled ..not laws ...you keep confusing the two

MsHarmony... so when it comes to a parent without arms giving discipline to their children with a foot the same as a parent would with a hand then it becomes a joke

so can you explain why it's a joke?

imagine seeing a child in a grocery store being kicked in the butt repeatedly by an Adult...would it be abuse...

and once you seen and found out that the Adult was the parent and didn't have any arms...would it still be abuse

No, there's groundings, taking toys away for a specific period of time, and so forth. These would come before a spanking or a stoning. Again, stoning is for UNRULY children. Children that won't listen no matter what method is used again with the grounding, spanking, ect.



No one's confusing anything.


Matthew 5:18
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And many more verses as such tell us the laws we are given, the covenant we have now only has power until all the prophecies are fulfilled. When all prophecies are fulfilled we will be given a new covenant, a new set of laws. Therefore fulfilling the prophecies is fulfilling the law(s).

MsHarmony..do this take place before, after or during the spanking?