Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: QUESTION
Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Wed 05/30/12 05:07 AM
The principal problem is that many people in the world do not have sufficient land to grow, or income to purchase, enough food. Yep pure Feudalism!

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 05:15 AM
The price of food rises and the rich buy land in under-developed countries. The pace at which investors in richer countries have been buying farmland in developing nations has slowed with the fall in food prices this year from peaks hit in 2008, United Nations farming experts said on Tuesday. The surge in food prices fuelled large-scale purchases of farmland by rich countries including Gulf Arab states, a trend that drew criticism for harming the interests of local people.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Wed 05/30/12 05:36 AM
The price of food rises and the rich buy land in under-developed countries. The pace at which investors in richer countries have been buying farmland in developing nations has slowed with the fall in food prices this year from peaks hit in 2008, United Nations farming experts said on Tuesday. The surge in food prices fuelled large-scale purchases of farmland by rich countries including Gulf Arab states, a trend that drew criticism for harming the interests of local people. Yep,more Feudalism! Or do you want to tell me those autocratic States are Capitalist?

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 06:00 AM Edited by Optomistic69 on Wed 05/30/12 06:17 AM
Poverty is the principal cause of hunger. The causes of poverty include poor people's lack of resources, and extremely unequal income distribution

ARTDOG13 Joined Sun 05/13/12 Posts: 29	Wed 05/30/12 06:07 AM
It's easy to sit on you bum and moan on internet fora. Your voter turnout figures are poor, so get out and vote! If you're unsatisfied-do something! Write to your representatives and express your concerns. Unlike East Germany, you can vote, so do it! Form parties or nominate independant candidates. You have the gift of democracy and change comes from you, no-one else. Become politically active instead of wasting time bitching on a dating site. Make your minority concerns those of the majority. If your vote really changed anything they would take it away.All you do by voting is to give your consent to be governed.

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 06:22 AM
It's easy to sit on you bum and moan on internet fora. Your voter turnout figures are poor, so get out and vote! If you're unsatisfied-do something! Write to your representatives and express your concerns. Unlike East Germany, you can vote, so do it! Form parties or nominate independant candidates. You have the gift of democracy and change comes from you, no-one else. Become politically active instead of wasting time bitching on a dating site. Make your minority concerns those of the majority. If your vote really changed anything they would take it away.All you do by voting is to give your consent to be governed. Ken Livingston If voting really mattered they would abolish it

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Wed 05/30/12 07:07 AM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Wed 05/30/12 07:19 AM
Look all I'M saying is that denocracy is a political system that is supposed to, in theory, benefit the majority but that the economic system of capitalism seems to benefit a minority. Therefore, how can a democracy be democratic, when the minority who control the economic wealth also get all the benefits of that society ? I don't see how it benefits "a minority" and I don't know what "minority" you are talking about. So excuse me, I just don't know what you are talking about. If you don't want to "explain" then I will just forget it. the minority are the very, very rich who control things like politics, the media etc, the majority are the rest of us the 99 per cent... Do you see the world outside of the U.S.A ? My boss, the owner of the small company I work for is very rich . . . however I am not, but you know what, I benefit from him employing me in a skilled trade. In fact every single person he interacts with gets a benefit, becuase he is either spending money, or hiring people to do services. He is using his capital to do things. Government forcing citizens to pay into a socialized risk system, where big companies get bail outs is not the same thing at all. The price of food rises and the rich buy land in under-developed countries. The pace at which investors in richer countries have been buying farmland in developing nations has slowed with the fall in food prices this year from peaks hit in 2008, United Nations farming experts said on Tuesday. The surge in food prices fuelled large-scale purchases of farmland by rich countries including Gulf Arab states, a trend that drew criticism for harming the interests of local people. . . and unless they sit on it, and do nothing with it, then its not a problem. When a company comes in, buys land to use it for growing crops they also bring in resources to make growing those crops more efficient, AND it costs money to move those goods, so if a market exists they will sell to the local market, and if competition is good the prices will be good as well. Capitalism/Corporatism/Fascism/ Makes no difference what you call it. Yes it does, becuase its the difference between the fix, and the problem. Have you heard of micro loans? Micro loans are CAPITALISM. Ownership of property is vital to resource management, and if you use your own example you can see that when the government does not allow citizens in countries like Nigeria to own land they then do not feel the need to invest in the land and expand there operations, so you end up with a lot of tiny farms producing inefficiently and do not seek out capital to invest in there own operations because they know ay any time someone can come and take the land. Property rights are vital to the production of commodities which are the catalyst for the standard of living. The problem in the US right now is privatized profit, but socialized risk.

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 07:40 AM
Capitalism/Corporatism/Fascism/ Makes no difference what you call it. Yes it does, becuase its the difference between the fix, and the problem. Have you heard of micro loans? Micro loans are CAPITALISM. Ownership of property is vital to resource management, and if you use your own example you can see that when the government does not allow citizens in countries like Nigeria to own land they then do not feel the need to invest in the land and expand there operations, so you end up with a lot of tiny farms producing inefficiently and do not seek out capital to invest in there own operations because they know ay any time someone can come and take the land. Property rights are vital to the production of commodities which are the catalyst for the standard of living. The problem in the US right now is privatized profit, but socialized risk. You should apply for one of those Micro Loans and live The American Dream Bushi just like your Boss If all you guys got together and done exactly the same work as you do now you would reap all the profit. Lovely example of worker power here in Ireland recently. An Hotel that was on the market for 5million Euros at the height of false economy madness was recently bought for 650,000 by the entire workforce cutting out the wiseguys

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Wed 05/30/12 08:24 AM
Capitalism/Corporatism/Fascism/ Makes no difference what you call it. Yes it does, becuase its the difference between the fix, and the problem. Have you heard of micro loans? Micro loans are CAPITALISM. Ownership of property is vital to resource management, and if you use your own example you can see that when the government does not allow citizens in countries like Nigeria to own land they then do not feel the need to invest in the land and expand there operations, so you end up with a lot of tiny farms producing inefficiently and do not seek out capital to invest in there own operations because they know ay any time someone can come and take the land. Property rights are vital to the production of commodities which are the catalyst for the standard of living. The problem in the US right now is privatized profit, but socialized risk. You should apply for one of those Micro Loans and live The American Dream Bushi just like your Boss If all you guys got together and done exactly the same work as you do now you would reap all the profit. Lovely example of worker power here in Ireland recently. An Hotel that was on the market for 5million Euros at the height of false economy madness was recently bought for 650,000 by the entire workforce cutting out the wiseguys So you use an example of capitalism at work to counter . . . . an argument for capitalism at work? I currently do have projects that are in the works to develop novel applications of technology that we make use of here at my company, the owner knows about it, and doesn't care. In fact some of the same investors he uses are interested in anything we produce. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, what is wrong is with governance and entitlements. Handouts of the bailout kind are just entitlements taken large. Socializing risk is what makes the behaviors risk grow exponentially, and is the direct cause of much of the financial problems of the world today. There should be no too big to fail. So far in this thread I have seen very little in the way of cogent arguments against capitalism. In fact none.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 05/30/12 08:35 AM
It's easy to sit on you bum and moan on internet fora. Your voter turnout figures are poor, so get out and vote! If you're unsatisfied-do something! Write to your representatives and express your concerns. Unlike East Germany, you can vote, so do it! Form parties or nominate independant candidates. You have the gift of democracy and change comes from you, no-one else. Become politically active instead of wasting time bitching on a dating site. Make your minority concerns those of the majority. If your vote really changed anything they would take it away.All you do by voting is to give your consent to be governed. And they don't give you much to choose from. They keep talking about Obama and Romney..... only them. Where is Ron Paul in the news? They don't want him there.

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 08:44 AM Edited by Optomistic69 on Wed 05/30/12 08:48 AM
Capitalism/Corporatism/Fascism/ Makes no difference what you call it. Yes it does, becuase its the difference between the fix, and the problem. Have you heard of micro loans? Micro loans are CAPITALISM. Ownership of property is vital to resource management, and if you use your own example you can see that when the government does not allow citizens in countries like Nigeria to own land they then do not feel the need to invest in the land and expand there operations, so you end up with a lot of tiny farms producing inefficiently and do not seek out capital to invest in there own operations because they know ay any time someone can come and take the land. Property rights are vital to the production of commodities which are the catalyst for the standard of living. The problem in the US right now is privatized profit, but socialized risk. You should apply for one of those Micro Loans and live The American Dream Bushi just like your Boss If all you guys got together and done exactly the same work as you do now you would reap all the profit. Lovely example of worker power here in Ireland recently. An Hotel that was on the market for 5million Euros at the height of false economy madness was recently bought for 650,000 by the entire workforce cutting out the wiseguys So you use an example of capitalism at work to counter . . . . an argument for capitalism at work? I currently do have projects that are in the works to develop novel applications of technology that we make use of here at my company, the owner knows about it, and doesn't care. In fact some of the same investors he uses are interested in anything we produce. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, what is wrong is with governance and entitlements. Handouts of the bailout kind are just entitlements taken large. Socializing risk is what makes the behaviors risk grow exponentially, and is the direct cause of much of the financial problems of the world today. There should be no too big to fail. So far in this thread I have seen very little in the way of cogent arguments against capitalism. In fact none. My Example is more akin to a Workers Co-operative All The Workforce are Part of The Business

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Wed 05/30/12 08:47 AM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Wed 05/30/12 08:49 AM
My Example is more akin to a Workers Co-operative Just because they are pooling capital does not make it something other than capitalism. They are making use of resources, and property rights to create a service, or product without government control. Now if they were forced to pool capital by the government, then the government told them how to use it, that would be socialism.

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 08:52 AM
My Example is more akin to a Workers Co-operative Just because they are pooling capital does not make it something other than capitalism. They are making use of resources, and property rights to create a service, or product without government control. Now if they were forced to pool capital by the government, then the government told them how to use it, that would be socialism. They will still have to pay taxes to the Government. They become self-employed as opposed to being exploited by capitalists.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 05/30/12 09:00 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 05/30/12 09:03 AM
My Example is more akin to a Workers Co-operative Just because they are pooling capital does not make it something other than capitalism. They are making use of resources, and property rights to create a service, or product without government control. Now if they were forced to pool capital by the government, then the government told them how to use it, that would be socialism. Bushi, your definition of capitalism is probably what it used to be and a much purer idea. But the word has come to be used and it has come to represent globalization and corporatism. They have begun to call corporatism and global take over capitalism because it sounded better. Sort of like the decision to call the people in Iraq who were resisting our Invasion of their country "insurgents" instead of "the resistance." The term "resistance" made it sound like we were the bad guys invading Iraq. So they changed the word. So it is with the new meaning of the word "capitalism." When corporations use that term they are trying to gain support and hide the fact that they are profiteers. Hence, the term "capitalism" that you are defending so nicely, becomes a dirty word as people see the results of global corporatism. So go tell the corporations to stop using that word to describe their global take over and profiteering.

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 09:29 AM
It is somewhat strange to me that working class people, that is people who work for bosses would defend capitalism. It is defending exploitation.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Wed 05/30/12 09:30 AM Edited by Conrad_73 on Wed 05/30/12 10:29 AM
Capitalism/Corporatism/Fascism/ Makes no difference what you call it. Yes it does, becuase its the difference between the fix, and the problem. Have you heard of micro loans? Micro loans are CAPITALISM. Ownership of property is vital to resource management, and if you use your own example you can see that when the government does not allow citizens in countries like Nigeria to own land they then do not feel the need to invest in the land and expand there operations, so you end up with a lot of tiny farms producing inefficiently and do not seek out capital to invest in there own operations because they know ay any time someone can come and take the land. Property rights are vital to the production of commodities which are the catalyst for the standard of living. The problem in the US right now is privatized profit, but socialized risk. You should apply for one of those Micro Loans and live The American Dream Bushi just like your Boss If all you guys got together and done exactly the same work as you do now you would reap all the profit. Lovely example of worker power here in Ireland recently. An Hotel that was on the market for 5million Euros at the height of false economy madness was recently bought for 650,000 by the entire workforce cutting out the wiseguys OMG now they are Capitalists! Now they are the Wiseguys! No matter what you call them,they are Owners,Capitalists! Capitalistic Entrepreneurs! Doubt they bought it to pee it against the Wall! They bought it to make Money for themselves! --------- Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. The recognition of individual rights entails the banishment of physical force from human relationships: basically, rights can be violated only by means of force. In a capitalist society, no man or group may initiate the use of physical force against others. The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force; the government acts as the agent of man’s right of self-defense, and may use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; thus the government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of force under objective control. ---------------- When I say “capitalism,” I mean a full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church. ---------------

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 09:41 AM Edited by Optomistic69 on Wed 05/30/12 09:53 AM
Just going to have my late lunch

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Wed 05/30/12 10:29 AM
It is somewhat strange to me that working class people, that is people who work for bosses would defend capitalism. It is defending exploitation. LOL, sure defending the source of my paycheck, and being realistic about the value of my service is supporting exploitation. Your silly.

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Wed 05/30/12 10:34 AM
It is somewhat strange to me that working class people, that is people who work for bosses would defend capitalism. It is defending exploitation. LOL, sure defending the source of my paycheck, and being realistic about the value of my service is supporting exploitation. Your silly. Not being silly. When I was 10 years younger than you I worked for a Guy. I was doing all the work and he was getting part of the monies for that work so I decided to go out on my own and Increased my income by 35% for doing the same amount of work. Simple really.....Not at all Silly Billy

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Wed 05/30/12 10:39 AM
It is somewhat strange to me that working class people, that is people who work for bosses would defend capitalism. It is defending exploitation. LOL, sure defending the source of my paycheck, and being realistic about the value of my service is supporting exploitation. Your silly. Not being silly. When I was 10 years younger than you I worked for a Guy. I was doing all the work and he was getting part of the monies for that work so I decided to go out on my own and Increased my income by 35% for doing the same amount of work. Simple really.....Not at all Silly Billy But you still damn Capitalism? Ask yourself if you were allowed to do that under a totalitarian System,like the Soviet-System or sundry other Statist Systems?