But sadly, spiritual strongholds can also

influeince and take hold of people, and deceive them into

thinking that THEY have the truth ,instead.


God said many will be deceived and will believe a lie.


And will turn around and also attack God's people,and call them

deceived instead.

This is why one must be born again, in order to be able to tell

the difference.

When born again,one is Set Free and KNOWS the Truth now.


God's Word says ," You SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH and the Truth Will Make

You FREE."

God's Word also says ,"You Shall Know Them by their Fruits".



Sadly,for everything that is of God, satan also has a counterfeit.



But when God Saves, His Holy Spirit will verfify God's

Salvation in the heart of a born again believer.

That believer has nothing to worry about from the enemy.

The Holy Spirit in him will Lead him into ALL Truth now..and also

becomes his Guide as well as his Comforter now.


For a born agan believer,There is a Rest and Confidence found

in Christ Jesus now..a Peace and a Joy like none other..and a

changed and fulfilled Life following ..as well as a heart full of

Love for God and for All people now.


My constant Prayer is that ALL will come to the Saving knowledge

of Christ Jesus, as God Draws All peope unto Him.


I trust that God is more than able to reach All with His Great

and Awesome Love...and Save to the Uttermost.

Including those exposed to false teachings.


Amen.


God Bless You All Now.

You are the one who believes Hades and Tartaroo are real, not I.



Who's deceived?

NOTHING MORE was EVER mentioned about Hades in the Bible,

other than it being used as the greek translation of the hebrew word, Sheol !!!



Nothing was EVER mentioned in the bible about followng or

believing in the hades myth!!!


To think that the translation from a hebrew word(sheol) to a

greek word (hades) , would mean the bible is promoting the

belief in MYTHS , is just TOTALLY PREPOSTEROUS AND RIDICULOUS !!!


It would be LAUGHABLE, IF IT WASN'T SO VERY VERY VERY SAD !!!




To see how the enemy has so deceived you like this Peter_Pan ,

just breaks my heart .


It is just sooo sad....but I am praying and believng you WILL get

set FREE from this strange TWISTED crap you have fallen for

From wiki answers:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_times_is_hell_mentioned_in_the_Bible





Hades and Tartaroos are MYTHS, they should not be in the Bible and there are verses which say such.

You also support the "eternal" theory even though the original Greek word means "an age"...

you mean,Orpheus never really played the Harp down THERE?

The new testament was written in greek.....

Although the greek word hades has different meanings ,the

bible STRICTLY used the meaning of the word hades , ONLY as a

translation for the hebrew word, sheol (hell) ...nothing more !!!



There was/is NO promotion of any hades myths or any other

myths, in the Holy Bible WHATSOEVER!!!


One last time....just because the greek word hades was used

to describe hell, doesn't mean hades myths was actually

believed in ,or promoted in the bible whatsoever !!!!!


How else would sheol be translated into greek, if they

didn't use the greek word hades...they had to use a

greek word....because ALL of the new testament was written in GREEK!!!


Also....

hell IS a temporary holding place ...just for an age...hell is a

temporary holding place (also called sheol or hades).....

but hell will one day be thrown into a PERMANENT PLACE called

the Lake of Fire , which will be eternal......


( Btw, eternal does NOT mean a long long long time.....simply

because time will no longer be in eternity......)


Now...I tried my best to help you understand and see that you are

completely misconscruing and twisting scriptures on

here,because of some strange twisted teaching you subjected

yourself to.


I will not be explaining or discussing this any further with

you now, Peter_Pan.....but I will be praying you get delivered

from this false confused teaching you have been exposed to.


I mean this sincerely, as it grieves me to see you confused and

mixed up like this, by this strange false teaching.

Take care now.

Sorry, woe to those who call evil good and good evil.

I don't care how you twist it, Hades and Tartaroos are Greek MYTHS.


BTW, do you have proof that the NT is written only in Greek or do you have access to any original scrolls? Even though the NT says Hebrew was their native toungue?

Not saying this is absolutely true, as I don't know for absolute sure, as I have never seen the original scriptures. But is what I found searching.

The first human author to write down the biblical record was Moses. He was commanded by God to take on this task, for Exodus 34:27 records God's words to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." And what language did he use? He wrote in his native language, called Hebrew.

The New Testament, however, was written in Greek. This seems strange, since you might think it would be either Hebrew or Aramaic. However, Greek was the language of scholarship during the years of the composition of the New Testament from 50 to 100 AD. The fact is that many Jews could not even read Hebrew anymore, and this disturbed the Jewish leaders a lot! So, around 300 BC a translation of the Old Testament from Hebrew into Greek was undertaken, and it was completed around 200 BC. Gradually this Greek translation of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint, was widely accepted and was even used in many synagogues. It also became a wonderful missionary tool for the early Christians, for now the Greeks could read God's Word in their own tongue.

So the New Testament authors wrote in Greek. They did not, however, use really high-class or classical Greek, but a very common and everyday type of Greek. For many years some scholars ridiculed the Greek of the New Testament because many of its words were strange to those who read the writings of the great Greek classical authors such as Plato and Aristotle. But later many records were uncovered of ordinary people, and amazingly there were the same common terms used in everyday speech! The ridicule dried up accordingly.


Source - http://www.biblica.com/bibles/faq/11/

Well I care. And I also care when a poster such as yourself is spreading ill-founded opinion around as though it were fact. I care that people hear another side when one is available. If you do not care if your reasoning is ill-conceived and self-contradictory, then that is up to you, but the careful reader ought not follow your mistaken path just because you've stuck your own head in the sand.



Prior to being able to point out facts, one must first know what a fact is. I see no evidence that that is the case. If you cared to look carefully at the criticism of your own argument, you may see where you've went wrong.



Yet another error in judgment. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the implication that that is something of extreme importance. So what? Just saying that it is up to the reader is trivially true. Of course the reader judges for themself, based upon their own pre-existing beliefs in addition to what others share regarding the matters. That is not at issue. What is at issue is whether or not the reader knows what it takes for something to be true, which is required for sound judgment.

There is a huge difference between judging and judging correctly.

LOL!



LOL!




LOL!





You've shown no capabilty of doing either...

Peter,

You have expressed your opinion about what you think is true, and what you think is wrong about the Bible, but why do you believe what you believe?

Some people believe that there were predictions that came true and that they are recorded or written in the Bible, and some people offer that as proof that the Bible is holy or divinely inspired or true or whatever.

But if I were writing scripture, I could have read the older scripture and I would probably have read those predictions. Therefore, I could fabricate a story that would make it appear that those predictions came true. Or, I could search for some vague meaning in those predictions and find something that really happened to match them up with them that would cause people to believe that a prediction came true. Or, I could make sure the prediction came true by causing it to come true. In any case, that is called self fulfilled prophecy.

Also, both the written prediction and the written event of the predictions coming true could all be pure fiction.

Therefore offering the "prediction" proof to validate scripture is not sufficient.

As for later scripture condemning the Idea of Hades or Hell, that is just a person arguing with prior scripture. Just because it was written at a later date does not mean that it is true and the earlier account was false.

That is like saying that a book that claims to debunk the official 9-11 account given by the 9-11 commission is true and the official account is not true. Or it is like saying that a book debunking any conspiracy theory about 9-11 written afterwards is true and the earlier books are false.

What you are saying and offering as proof is that that the last person to state their opinion is right and the first person is then proven to be wrong.

AND that is not valid proof of who is right or wrong.

No wonder I confuse you, you haven't been paying attention.

You guys think everything is black or white. I'm telling you to use logic and your own judgement but instead you're both more concerned about how I arrive at my conclusions. Damn, you're like my 4th grade math teacher, always wanting to see my work. My work is private and it's none of your business how I arrive at my conclusions UNLESS you can prove me wrong...

If you don't care to voice your opinion on the matter, what are you doing here?


Antagonizing?

Pan your reasoning is fallacious, and your responses trite. You've proven yourself guilty of that which you accuse others to be. Sometimes when we are shown how our reasoning is fraught with possibility for error, or is obviously erroneous, we do not want to give the criticism time and subsequent consideration that it takes to be able to grasp where it is that we've went wrong.

It's tough to face that we've been mistaken, but Pan, you have been sorely mistaken in your reasoning here. That has been shown, not to make fun, but rather to allow you the opportunity to do with it what you may. That, obviously, is up to you. I'm not interested in the petty sarcasm and vacuous claims. I'll respond again when you offer something a little more substantial. My work is done here for now. Let he who have eyes see, and he who have ears hear.

Whaaaaaa!!!


Cry me a river wang-chung.


You have no clue how I weigh and verify my facts. I, however, know that you do neither.

Possibility of error does not mean error, you've shown nothing except speculation regarding another's conscience and reasoning. All you know is your own conscience and you're afraid to make it public. If this were a court case, you'd be considered a hostile witness. You're afraid to do your own research so you attempt to find flaws in my reasoning when I tell you to judge for yourself? Yeah, big flaw there allowing any type of judgement to come from you as is evident in your lack of desire to research these things. 8 pages of nothing except speculations when all you had to do was to research these things for yourself and post your answer. If you weren't so afraid of your own judgement, you would vocalise it. Could it be that you agree with my reasoning and conclussion? Afraid to admit how brainwashed you were/are?


Yeah, I'm sure you're aware of how tough it is to be wrong, it shows in your posts. It shows in your lack of willingness to state anything concrete. It shows in your insatiable desire to try to prove me wrong at something, anything, even to point of misrepresenting my words... The only way you can prove me wrong is to do your own investigation and draw your own conclussions, untill you do that, you're just filling the pages with fluff.

So, what am I mistaken about? I think sacrifice is sick and demented - check! You gonna call me mistaken about my own feelings? I've stated my case regarding sacrifices and you've done NOTHING to disprove it except state that you have doubts.



And yes, the prediction stands true. You even had the abilty to make it false. Damn, you're predictable...


Step up to the plate and take a swing or play benchwarmer, I don't care either way but I bet you'd rather coach fantasy baseball.

Don't flatter yourself. I'm not the least bit confused. You have voiced your opinions about what you think is true, and what you think is wrong with the Bible and with everyone else, and we have asked you to explain how you came to those conclusions and you flatly refuse to explain it.

All we can do at that point is shrug our shoulders and go about our business because there is no more reason to continue to discuss the subject at all.

And why would you care in the slightest what our opinions are on the subject? If we had a different opinion, would you not want to know why?

If people just get on these forums to state their opinions and don't want to discuss intelligently why they have these opinions, it seems to me to be a giant waste of time.

Good for you, you have an opinion.

"My work is done here for now. Let he who have eyes see, and he who have ears hear. "

How will you work elsewhere...

For you have no 'eyes'...

and so must now rely upon your ears.

Each of threee stabbed each of three in the eye.

so then no eyes are left among the six that should have looked with the love of brothers upon one another...

and yet all three of you are right...

Should you but listen to each other with the ears you still have.

You find simularities that link each of your statemens (when you strip away the conflict).

Morning Song it is indeed sad as you say...

"But sadly, spiritual strongholds can also

influeince and take hold of people, and deceive them into

thinking that THEY have the truth ,instead.


God said many will be deceived and will believe a lie. "

----------------------------------------------------
Strongholds are built over time by many working together.

Even though God plants the Foundation Stone, ritual takes over and builds (instead of a temple) a 'stronghold' for the faithful.

Taking then ahold upon the people, deceiving them into thinking that they (the keepers of the stronghold) have the truth (instead of the People recieving it of the Holy Spirit).

One must first determine where is the 'lie' before one can understand the passage.

Though the Rock of Foundation for Christ's Church is Peter... God needs but two or more to gather for His Church... Any other gathering is not His Church, rather is it a 'congregation' in Faith that worships in fellowship and so has mutual rituals that include God. (and often expensive trinkets, fine garments, plush carpets and many windows of expensive glass while the poor eat scraps and have no beds)

Think with reason upon this...

before judging the weight of the Lie upon anothers beliefs.

The metaphor is nice sometimes but not so much at others. It tends to increase misunderstandings. I've listened AB, and found no reason at all to believe that the testimony of the speaker indicated that the utterer knew what he was talking about. Nor, during the listening period, did my interlocutor show what it would take to warrant continuance.

Continuance is warrented (other eyes seek than those that speak)...

If you but strive for you then indeed desist.

Yet if you can reach but one in a thousand that look and speak not.

Well worth it is the effort...

Put aside strife in your response and the watcher will see the wisdom and not the Warrior.

Wise words, my friend. I'd be more than glad to continue a discussion with someone who displays a little more common etiquette. As it stands, any word spoken is being used as a springboard for sarcastic retorts, none of which deserve much of anyone's attention.