its all subjective

I would take such deception (purposely trying to convince a partner that you are something other than what you were born as) fairly harshly

Im not violent, but I would consider voting to make such deception a part of 'statuatory rape' laws

much like a child doesnt have adequate knowledge, supposedly, to make a decision

in this case, the up front partner has been purposely neglected the opportunity to have adequate knowledge about their decision,,,

Statuatory rape? I'm sorry, but I find that extremely offensive due to the fact that unless the trans in question went down on you without taking their clothes off, it would be kind of hard not to notice that the parts are a little different than the packaging suggests. If they did go down on someone without first informing, harrasment, mental duress, or trauma charges maybe, but labeling that person a sexual offender? Definitely not.

Under any other circumstances that would be like charging a natural woman with statuatory rape because she had sex with a man who didn't realize she bi-sexual or vice versa. I don't tell all of my partners that I like both men and women right away since on more than one occasion I've been on the receiving end of bloody nose for just being different. Does that mean I should be labeled a sex offender for not telling someone I'm intimate with that I'm not entirely straight before I can fully come to trust them and how they will react? Seriously?

sexual preference is not biological, it has to do with values, preferences, choices

If I kiss and fondle with someone under the ASSUMPTION they are straight, that is an assumption they were not necessarily INTENDING to lead me into.

IF I kiss and fondle with someone who speaks gruffly, goes by a male name, has a butch haircut, and refers to and has others refer to them as 'he' or 'him' , that person intended for me to think they are a man

no, this is quite different. This is more than not telling someone something. This is INTENTIONAL deception. When you have a penis but you dress as if you have a vagina,, that is INTENTIONAL Deception. IF you were born a girl, but you intentionally portray and carry on with someone as if you are a boy, ,that is intentional deception.

that puts someone in a position of making a physical decision that the partner obviously knows they may not otherwise make or they wouldnt need to deceive them by pretending to be what they know that person wants instead of what they are.

@Msharmony

Once again your point comes across as invalid (to me).

Do you wear makeup? Hair extensions? Fake eyelashes or nails? It's all the same thing. You purposely change your appearance to lure some unsuspecting person into a relationship, to be something different, and a few weeks later they see you without all of the gaudy stick ons and find out that they weren't getting what was on the packaging either.

People do it to cover up diseases, deformities, birthmarks, and scars, are you saying they're wrong? Are you saying ugly people should be thrown in jail because they put on makeup to fool people into thinking that they're pretty?

ugly people should just get a fine
pugly people should have to do community service
fugly people should get a suspended sentence
pug fugly people should be thrown in jail

Thanks for the input Freddy. Perfect timing.

not quite

whether I have extensions or eyelashes or nails, will not affect the end game in 'mating' with someone, which is a significant factor when we get 'physically' involved

cosmetics to make us more 'attractive' , or cover ups to make us more pleasnt to the eyes,

are a totally different thing than costumes, names, and acts put on to make us appear to be a totally different gender

I have no idea, but I wish you luck.

Wrong, it does affect the endgame, you want to know how I know? The vast majority of my family is the entertainment business. You know how many guys I have seen and heard flip when they found out that this hot chick they were about to get busy with wasn't actually all that hot. And just like with a trans person, a lot of them shut down the girl or they would only continue because they felt bad. You accuse transgender men and women of deceiving people into the mating game, when females do it every day. And for the record, transgender men and women rarely actually get to the full blown "mating" part if they didn't enlighten their partner if they were pre-op.

OP: I feel your pain, man. I was married to a woman who had hid it from me for dozens of years that she was a motocross-terrier and roadrunner-mix.

Imagine. It's bad enough that she had lied about her species for years, and years, but the real losers were our kids, then in grade seven, coz the smaller and more smart kids made fun of them. Our kids needed all their self-respect to hold them back from biting the other kids by the ankle.

You didnt think the barking and corn-pecking was odd?

Guys who would go off because someone was not 'hot' enough are jerks.

Guys who would go off because they went out with someone who pretended to be a different gender, have realistic expectations.

I dont want to have to WONDER if the guy I am with is really a girl. If he is dressed as a guy, portraying himself as a guy, but the equipment doesnt match,, he should be saying that before any romance develops.

A male should have the same expectation of a female he is with.

And for the record, I take no issue with those who are sure to disclose the truth about their gender before romantic and physical elements get involved. My peeve is with those who purposely sell a pickle to someone they know is interested in a doughnut..

or vice verse.

I think a transgender male to female could fool a male but the other way round less likely.

Girls, if you're in bed with a guy and he goes for anywhere other than a hotspot first, be afraid.

Somebody hasn't heard about Foreplay.

I am neither pro nor con regarding sexual deviances and preferences. I am an emotional deviant, and whether a deviance is emotional, physical, sexual, or inter-species, they are all part of a diversity of the human nature that I feel should not invite discrimination.

However. There are lies and there are lies. Particularly if a lie is covering up a deal breaker or not.

A woman who puts on make-up is lying, but her birthmark revealed with the wash-off of the make-up or when her bra comes off and light comes to her vasectomy, the guy still knows she is a woman. Despite her lies.

You see, straight guys get repulsed by gay sex, and gay guys get repulsed by heterosexual sex. A very gay friend of mine told me that I should not describe sexual acts, even such mild ones as sucking on a female breat, because it grosses him out. I got grossed out when in my taxi two young gay men could not wait to get home.

This is human nature. We can internalize tolerance, but we can't go against our nature, whether we are gay or straight.

A MAN who makes others believe he is a WOMAN is using make-up to lie, too, but the lie is too big. It breaks a barrier, it is so big. No straight man would want to know a another man in the biblical sense, whether that other man is dressed as a woman or as a wolf in sheep's clothing. So the lie makes a huge difference in this case.

I am not judging anyone, please don't get me wrong. I am just saying that lying about your gender when meeting people potentially for sex is therefore not acceptable by most members of society. Then they retaliate, whether justly or not, is none of my call, but explicably. The explanation is easy: when a man thinks he is about to experience the ultimate sensation of pleasure, and instead he is grossed out, he can't be expected to act in a sportsmanlike behavour, or to be a good soldier about it and shrug it off. This is a very major issue, not due to honour, not due to morals, not due to religious feelings (I have none of these three), but a total urge to puke with immediate notice is biological, and that is that.

You can't argue a man out of biology. Whether he is gay, straight, or likes men dressed in women's clothing.

Much like you can't convince a man who jumps off a cliff to fall up and not down.

@Msharmony

Though I still don't agree with you and could argue with you until you tossed your comp out the window, I can understand your aversion to trans people since it's like walking into an entirely different culture. As it is, it's dinner time and my stomach ranks more importance.

Hope we can get into another argument soon. Maybe over religion or politics next time, those ones always get my dander up.

-Oddest

you would be surprised, many women enjoy oral as much or more than penetration and there are some very lifelike 'attachments' that are now available to play the part as well,,,

as long as lights are off, it wouldnt be that difficult to pull off (no pun intended)...lol

Its not trickery in all cases. IF you were born with OVARIES< that doesnt change with any surgery. If you were born with ovaries and testes,, deciding would be a necessity.

If you were born with just TESTES, that is also not going to change by recreating the appearance of the OUTSIDE.

If you were born with testes AND ovaries, deciding would be a necessity and not a deception.

Those born with testes, who later decide to APPEAR as if they have ovaries, are being deceptive UNLESS They share that that is what they have done.

Those born with ovaries, who later decide to APPEAR as if they have testes, are being deceptive UNLESS they share that this is what they have done.

I know if I want to scare my fellow members I will bring up the topic of responsibility. But if I want to really terrorize them I will bring up the topic of commitment.

I think it can easily fall into the category of ex. I mean I still love my ex but would I get back with her. You will notice this little sentence at the end. "You're straight but already loving them." I mean it would be possible to still love someone but find out that you and them weren't meant to be together. I find that acceptance is the key to a lot of my decisions. If I can accept something or can't accept something is really all that it boils down to.