Community > Science & Philosophy

Topic: What would it take for a claim to be true?
creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 10/08/11 11:01 AM
Generally speaking they are, however, I'm certain that an argument can be made to distinguish between the two. I find no need in this context. Neither statement can be honestly made without believing that it is true.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 01:44 PM
Well I am relatively certain that Jrboogie believes he is right. Therefore, his statement that he does not believe anything or that he believes nothing is a lie.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 10/08/11 02:02 PM
Not necessarily true. A lie requires knowing that one is spreading falsehood. If one believes what they're saying, then they believe it to be true. Therefore, spreading falsehood does not equate to lying.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 02:05 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 10/08/11 02:05 PM
Not necessarily true. A lie requires knowing that one is spreading falsehood. If one believes what they're saying, then they believe it to be true. Therefore, spreading falsehood does not equate to lying. I agree. Perhaps he has convinced himself or perhaps he has a different concept of what "belief" actually is or means. Or maybe he is just stubborn.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 02:07 PM
But if a person makes a statement, he either believes what he is saying or he is lying. Right?

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 10/08/11 02:07 PM
I am not going to engage in conversation about jrbogie personally. Rather, we can set out the argument in question and talk about it, impersonally.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 02:10 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 10/08/11 02:10 PM
If a person (any person) states "I don't believe anything." ... and he believes what he just said, then he has proven himself to be wrong. If he does not believe what he just said, then he is a liar. So, he has to either be wrong, or a liar. Take you pick.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 10/08/11 03:23 PM
I call it self-refuting.

jrbogie Joined Sat 03/01/08 Posts: 2490	Sat 10/08/11 03:52 PM
Type supposition into the google box... typed it into yahoo search. no mention of belief. google isn't a toolbar of mine but i'll go with dictionary definition nonetheless.

jrbogie Joined Sat 03/01/08 Posts: 2490	Sat 10/08/11 03:53 PM
Type supposition into the google box... typed it into yahoo search. no mention of belief. google isn't a toolbar of mine but i'll go with dictionary definition nonetheless.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 03:53 PM
I call it self-refuting. AH. Self-refuting ideas are ideas or statements whose falsehood is a logical consequence of the act or situation of holding them to be true.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 03:53 PM
Nothing I have found can compete with google search.

jrbogie Joined Sat 03/01/08 Posts: 2490	Sat 10/08/11 04:10 PM
okay fine. googled, 'definition of supposition'. no mention of belief. no, i'm not about to click on every link.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 10/08/11 05:03 PM
Basing one's philosophical position upon what is found within a dictionary is to believe the dictionary.

jrbogie Joined Sat 03/01/08 Posts: 2490	Sat 10/08/11 06:05 PM
but i don't base my philosophy on what i find in the dictionary. i simply said that the word supposition has nothing to do with belief. actually i can't say that i have a philosopy. just a dictionary that explains an accepted meaning of words. oh, a number of other books too but nothing philisophical. i simply say what i mean, mean what i say. quite simple really.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 10/08/11 09:24 PM
Aww now, you don't believe that.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 10/08/11 11:08 PM
That's right. He doesn't believe anything.

jrbogie Joined Sat 03/01/08 Posts: 2490	Sun 10/09/11 06:02 AM
no, i don't believe that. i mean that. perhaps reading comprehension should be a topic of discussion. lol. what's that? a personal attack from me? ah hell, who's perfect, huh?