Just gonna kick around the notion of belief. What it means, what constitutes it, what role it plays in action, etc.

--

I would think that it begins with identity/individuation, which would be the setting something out as distinct from oneself; the cognition of 'other'. I mean, prior to thinking about a tree, one must first believe that something is there, wherever there is. Only later do we learn to call it a 'tree'. That is a tree.

believe nothing. question everything.

You say that bogie, but I would bet your actions don't match.

how so?

Because you probably end up leaving your house through the door.

I believe the door is a way out of my house.

You probably do not drink gasoline. I believe gasoline is bad for you, even though I have never experienced drinking any myself.

Just sayn.

Just as Billy has indicated, our day to day activities - especially in these modern times - are clear examples of belief being put to use. We do not question whether or not our refrigerator will be there the next time we go to get a beer or soda or some other beverage. We do not question whether or not our computer is a means for conversing with other people about some topic. We do not question whether or not our society exists, etc.

nope. i leave through the door of my house because i've experienced it to be an excellent exit as opposed to climbing through a window as i experienced as a teen sneaking out when i was grounded. i close the door on my way out having experienced my dad yelling, "damnit. were you born in a barn?"

i don't drink gasoline because i have reason to think that gasoline is a toxic substance. could be wrong of course having never tried it but don't want to experience it to find out. it smells like hell and my experience has been that when something don't smell right, don't eat or drink it. my dog uses similar thinking.

i go to the refrigerator to get a beer because my experience tells me that beer tastes best cold so my thinking would suggest that if there's beer in the house i'd find it in the refrigerator. of course i haven't always gone to the refrig when i wanted to blow a few suds. in vietnam we had no refrigerator. drank it warm. wasn't as good of course but having actually experienced the swill i can say with confidence that if the frig is available, the beer will be inside if it's to be found.

as you can see, i'm into my experience and when experience isn't there i'm into thinking. but i believe nothing. question everything.

Here fixed it for you. : )

Exactly.

Experience is the happening...knowing is the thinking of the happening and arriving at a belief, or an understanding.

only i can choose the words i use. something about this concept of belief that i find entertainig is people who claim to beleive anything often beleive everything. here we have a couple believers who actually believe they can know my thinking. but i do love it when a thread becomes all about me.

Beliefs have consequences. If I believed I was rich and famous I might walk around trying to put expensive things on a credit tab I do not have.

If I believed drinking gasoline made you strong I would try that.

If I believed a little Epsom salt, and electrical diode and water could "detoxify" (whatever that means) your feet I might get a detox foot bath.

If I believed I could fly I would try.

Beliefs have consequences, they direct our actions. We can come to a belief via experience, communication, or logic.

If I did not believe in gravity I might come up with all kinds of ideas to explain why I am not floating around right now.


If I did not believe 2 planes struck the twin towers causing there collapse I might be over in the politics forum going on and on about conspiracies.

Belief is not a concept.

Is that the way things are? Is that the case at hand?



It is about belief, your role is that you do not think/believe that you hold belief.

hahaha. mine was the first post to this thread in which i indicated that i believe nothing. aftar all these posts arguing it ain't so you finally got it that i don't think i hold belief. next time why not simply pay attention when someone replies to a thread you start? in the first two posts you expressed your thoughts on belief, i expressed mine. i didn't suggest that you don't know what you're thinking. in fact i never commented on your thinking. simply expressed my thinking. and yet you've carried your own thread completely off topic arguing that i'm not thinking what i say i'm thinking. did you only expect replies from people who share your thinking???

experience IS the happening and knowing comes from thinking of the happening and arriving at UNDERSTANDING. but people arrive at beliefs with no experience of anything happening. be it a belief in god, the afterlife or that the yankees will win the world seiries this year, it all requires faith to believe. you cannot know.

Are you saying that you do not believe that what you've written here is true?

Ok so thread started on belief. JR said believe nothing question everything. If we take him 100% literally then we have to wonder how he can function with no beliefs.

We establish beliefs for many different reasons, some good reasons with sound logic and reasoning, others bad reasons with faulty or no logic and reasoning.

That does not change the fact that we rarely act on anything less than a belief.

I do not go looking for my keys becuase I do not believe they exit. I look for them becuase I believe they exist, I believe they exist becuase I have knowledge of there existence via personal experience.

I do not drink gasoline; I do not drink it for more than one reason. Before I gained my knowledge of chemistry, it was becuase my mom, who I trust, told me it was poison.

This can go on and on and on, without belief I would have nothing compelling to move me to action, or inaction. I could very well just randomly try things until I had a list of experiences to rely on, but that is not what I, nor really anyone else does. (I imagine they would not survive long this way, and this illustrates why evolutionary progress would include beliefs)

Our actions are not the product of our direct experiences alone, they are the product of beliefs as they are constructed via various forms of knowledge, suspicions, myths, lies, bad logical deductions, the list goes on.

By my lights, it looks like a personal aversion to the term 'belief'. Skepticism gone awry. To doubt X is to doubt that X is true. All doubt rests upon pre-existing belief. Knowledge contains belief. The list goes on and on.

jrbogie,

I have two questions...

1. What, on your view, is a belief?
2. What is the difference between thought and belief?