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| Topic: Sticks and Stones | |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 04/13/11 12:30 PM
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I am lost. I wasnt there, so my question is sincere and not judgmental. But why would one send their teen to a church function and not expect it to have a church environment and theme? why would that be cause for offense? am I missing something here,,, 
IF my asian neighbor invited my teen for a 'boys night', I might expect that along with things for boys they would also have some traditional asian things happening ,,,,,,,asian food, discussion on asian culture if I sent him to an asian home, why would I then take offense at the asians for being their normal self, with their normal culture and discussions? MsHarmony...perhaps your neighbors are simple americans of asian decent...why assume they will be different than any other american but anyway since you brought it up...asians do find the liver of the puffer fish a delicacy...if the liver is not sliced or cook perfectly it can kill when eaten......would you like to know that they will be serving this to your child or you don't mind since according to you it's asian food well, being that my daughter has allergies, I dont think it would be a concern because I would probably take the PREVENTIVE measure to find out before hand what they were serving and make them aware of 'special' circumstances relating to my child,,,, I would (and the law would too) expect the asian adults to make a reasonable effort to warn me about something that was potentially harmful (to the point of potential death?) no different than if they had just painted the home and still had paint lying around, the law would make it incumbent on them to do what was necessary to not Unnecessarily endanger the children in their care,,, |
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you will be assimulated ..resistance is futile ..we are "Organized Religion" well, resistance might be harder if you go INTO A CHURCH,,, seriously, chances of not hearing about God decrease significant when one enters a church much like chances of not smelling and seeing meat decrease when one enters a steak house I guess if a plumber comes into a church to fix the plumbing he first have to sit down and listen to a sermon why he need to come to God ...of course it's the plumber's fault because he should have known that if he comes into a church he must be ready and willing to listen to the gospel ......but I guess as long as he is getting paid by the hour it doesn't matter to him |
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you will be assimulated ..resistance is futile ..we are "Organized Religion" well, resistance might be harder if you go INTO A CHURCH,,, seriously, chances of not hearing about God decrease significant when one enters a church much like chances of not smelling and seeing meat decrease when one enters a steak house I guess if a plumber comes into a church to fix the plumbing he first have to sit down and listen to a sermon why he need to come to God ...of course it's the plumber's fault because he should have known that if he comes into a church he must be ready and willing to listen to the gospel ......but I guess as long as he is getting paid by the hour it doesn't matter to him did you just have an argument with yourself?....lol you are right, if a plumber is getting paid to do a job, I imagine he would be concerned with the job regardless of what discussion was happening around him(as long as it wasnt about him, which could lead to legal issues in some extreme cases) |
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I am lost. I wasnt there, so my question is sincere and not judgmental. But why would one send their teen to a church function and not expect it to have a church environment and theme? why would that be cause for offense? am I missing something here,,,
IF my asian neighbor invited my teen for a 'boys night', I might expect that along with things for boys they would also have some traditional asian things happening ,,,,,,,asian food, discussion on asian culture if I sent him to an asian home, why would I then take offense at the asians for being their normal self, with their normal culture and discussions? MsHarmony...perhaps your neighbors are simple americans of asian decent...why assume they will be different than any other american but anyway since you brought it up...asians do find the liver of the puffer fish a delicacy...if the liver is not sliced or cook perfectly it can kill when eaten......would you like to know that they will be serving this to your child or you don't mind since according to you it's asian food well, being that my daughter has allergies, I dont think it would be a concern because I would probably take the PREVENTIVE measure to find out before hand what they were serving and make them aware of 'special' circumstances relating to my child,,,, I would (and the law would too) expect the asian adults to make a reasonable effort to warn me about something that was potentially harmful (to the point of potential death?) no different than if they had just painted the home and still had paint lying around, the law would make it incumbent on them to do what was necessary to not Unnecessarily endanger the children in their care,,, well just like you expect the asian parents to warn you...the people using the church for their function should also warn the parents that other things are included in the function besides quilt making |
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you will be assimulated ..resistance is futile ..we are "Organized Religion" well, resistance might be harder if you go INTO A CHURCH,,, seriously, chances of not hearing about God decrease significant when one enters a church much like chances of not smelling and seeing meat decrease when one enters a steak house I guess if a plumber comes into a church to fix the plumbing he first have to sit down and listen to a sermon why he need to come to God ...of course it's the plumber's fault because he should have known that if he comes into a church he must be ready and willing to listen to the gospel ......but I guess as long as he is getting paid by the hour it doesn't matter to him did you just have an argument with yourself?....lol you are right, if a plumber is getting paid to do a job, I imagine he would be concerned with the job regardless of what discussion was happening around him(as long as it wasnt about him, which could lead to legal issues in some extreme cases) the point I'm trying to make is that people sometime rent churchs for other events that may not be of a religious nature...if it's anything beyond what it is specified to be ,then place it on the advertisement ... |
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I am lost. I wasnt there, so my question is sincere and not judgmental. But why would one send their teen to a church function and not expect it to have a church environment and theme? why would that be cause for offense? am I missing something here,,,
IF my asian neighbor invited my teen for a 'boys night', I might expect that along with things for boys they would also have some traditional asian things happening ,,,,,,,asian food, discussion on asian culture if I sent him to an asian home, why would I then take offense at the asians for being their normal self, with their normal culture and discussions? MsHarmony...perhaps your neighbors are simple americans of asian decent...why assume they will be different than any other american but anyway since you brought it up...asians do find the liver of the puffer fish a delicacy...if the liver is not sliced or cook perfectly it can kill when eaten......would you like to know that they will be serving this to your child or you don't mind since according to you it's asian food well, being that my daughter has allergies, I dont think it would be a concern because I would probably take the PREVENTIVE measure to find out before hand what they were serving and make them aware of 'special' circumstances relating to my child,,,, I would (and the law would too) expect the asian adults to make a reasonable effort to warn me about something that was potentially harmful (to the point of potential death?) no different than if they had just painted the home and still had paint lying around, the law would make it incumbent on them to do what was necessary to not Unnecessarily endanger the children in their care,,, well just like you expect the asian parents to warn you...the people using the church for their function should also warn the parents that other things are included in the function besides quilt making two different extremes , I would expect that my children might eat asian food, I couldnt be outraged if I found out that they did, considering its an asian home I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, |
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised |
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised in the ENVIRONMENT in which it was advertised as well,,,especially if there were no bars or locks keeping the teens in,,,,,or preventing them from leaving,,, |
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised in the ENVIRONMENT in which it was advertised as well,,,especially if there were no bars or locks keeping the teens in,,,,,or preventing them from leaving,,, wow...ok...it's ok to deceive children if locks are not on the door...some of those children probably got dropped off by their parents and didn't have a ride home and was stuck there ...but hey...as long as bars are not on the doors it's ok what if some of the kids did decide to leave because they felt deceived and something happened to them....I guess they deserved it...no one told them to leave |
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised in the ENVIRONMENT in which it was advertised as well,,,especially if there were no bars or locks keeping the teens in,,,,,or preventing them from leaving,,, wow...ok...it's ok to deceive children if locks are not on the door...some of those children probably got dropped off by their parents and didn't have a ride home and was stuck there ...but hey...as long as bars are not on the doors it's ok what if some of the kids did decide to leave because they felt deceived and something happened to them....I guess they deserved it...no one told them to leave there is nothing deceptive about talking about God in a church, it is a REASONABLE expectation, the only way it could be unreasonable in my opinion is if there were locks preventing people who didnt like what they were hearing from leaving we are talking about middle school age here, they manage to walk home and take buses just fine during school hours,, they are more creative than they are given credit for,,,,they can EVEN sit outside until their ride is scheduled to come and congregate with EACH OTHER,,,,,, |
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I am lost. I wasnt there, so my question is sincere and not judgmental. But why would one send their teen to a church function and not expect it to have a church environment and theme? why would that be cause for offense? am I missing something here,,,
IF my asian neighbor invited my teen for a 'boys night', I might expect that along with things for boys they would also have some traditional asian things happening ,,,,,,,asian food, discussion on asian culture if I sent him to an asian home, why would I then take offense at the asians for being their normal self, with their normal culture and discussions? Ms Harmony.... Apologies if I was not clear in my posts... we had an expectation of 'some' religious connotations...a prayer, a welcoming....then how to learn the art of hat making, and quilting..perhaps an open forum of relaxed conversation, if the girls had questions about their (the facilitators) faith.. instead we had a hat maker preach at the girls...a quiltmaker who condemned the young women, how they dress, behave, and the evils facing them...and what Jesus wants them to do! For two hours!...Fire, Brimstone, Admonishment, Degradation, Shaming. I have sat with my children at various times in their life, while they have explored... Jehovah's Witnessing, Catholicism, Buddhism, Ananda Margists, Paganism.... they are free to choose whatever they wish to explore, and as a responsible perent I am with them....it appears, through my own children, somewhere between 12 and 15 they explore....they are inquisitive...my job is to protect them, whilst allowing them the freedom of experiences.. I had an expectation of christianity when we attended the girl's night.....we also had an expectation of learning new crafts. |
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wow...ok...it's ok to deceive children if locks are not on the door...some of those children probably got dropped off by their parents and didn't have a ride home and was stuck there ...but hey...as long as bars are not on the doors it's ok what if some of the kids did decide to leave because they felt deceived and something happened to them....I guess they deserved it...no one told them to leave You are absolutely correct in your thinking Funches... there were a vast majority of young women/girls dropped off... and to be fair, it was not in my original postings...the church hall has been the home of 'Youth group' for over ten years... A prayer of thanks, opens the evening...and it is expected, by all who attend...then it is ALL about the young people, good old fashioned games, crafts, supper....no god in a preachy format....gentle guidance, in a non intrusive way....by EXAMPLE. The church hall is also used for jazz ballet, Men's Shed, craft activities....many non denominational activities... |
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"My daughter asked an extremely valid question of one of the female speakers...what would she tell her daughter to do, if she was bullied physically and verbally at school...(high school)...the woman replied...."Why pray of course, ask Jesus to help you work through this." " In keeping with prayer for the bullies. 'Jesus please forgive these christians for bullying your daughter and the other young ladies that attended their event.' 
Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. 
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I am lost. I wasnt there, so my question is sincere and not judgmental. But why would one send their teen to a church function and not expect it to have a church environment and theme? why would that be cause for offense? am I missing something here,,,
IF my asian neighbor invited my teen for a 'boys night', I might expect that along with things for boys they would also have some traditional asian things happening ,,,,,,,asian food, discussion on asian culture if I sent him to an asian home, why would I then take offense at the asians for being their normal self, with their normal culture and discussions? Ms Harmony.... Apologies if I was not clear in my posts... we had an expectation of 'some' religious connotations...a prayer, a welcoming....then how to learn the art of hat making, and quilting..perhaps an open forum of relaxed conversation, if the girls had questions about their (the facilitators) faith.. instead we had a hat maker preach at the girls...a quiltmaker who condemned the young women, how they dress, behave, and the evils facing them...and what Jesus wants them to do! For two hours!...Fire, Brimstone, Admonishment, Degradation, Shaming. I have sat with my children at various times in their life, while they have explored... Jehovah's Witnessing, Catholicism, Buddhism, Ananda Margists, Paganism.... they are free to choose whatever they wish to explore, and as a responsible perent I am with them....it appears, through my own children, somewhere between 12 and 15 they explore....they are inquisitive...my job is to protect them, whilst allowing them the freedom of experiences.. I had an expectation of christianity when we attended the girl's night.....we also had an expectation of learning new crafts. sorry it didnt turn out as expected,,, |
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised in the ENVIRONMENT in which it was advertised as well,,,especially if there were no bars or locks keeping the teens in,,,,,or preventing them from leaving,,, wow...ok...it's ok to deceive children if locks are not on the door...some of those children probably got dropped off by their parents and didn't have a ride home and was stuck there ...but hey...as long as bars are not on the doors it's ok what if some of the kids did decide to leave because they felt deceived and something happened to them....I guess they deserved it...no one told them to leave there is nothing deceptive about talking about God in a church, it is a REASONABLE expectation, the only way it could be unreasonable in my opinion is if there were locks preventing people who didnt like what they were hearing from leaving we are talking about middle school age here, they manage to walk home and take buses just fine during school hours,, they are more creative than they are given credit for,,,,they can EVEN sit outside until their ride is scheduled to come and congregate with EACH OTHER,,,,,, oh so now you have deem that it's ok to decieve middle age children...also Jess stated that she lives in a small town ...which means buses probably do not run every 15 minutes like in a big city or they may not even have buses..perhaps that was part of their plan.... but heck it's ok if those little heathens have to walk 10 miles or more home ...it's good excerise for those that may be disable, but then again no one force them to leave the church and they weren't locked in there that's the same trick they do to get you into the department store...it's called the "Bait and Switch" ...advertise one thing as a sale and when they get there tell them you are out of that product and sell them something else that cost more ...it's considered to be fraud but according to you it's ok if the church does it... |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 04/13/11 04:00 PM
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there is nothing deceptive about talking about God in a church, it is a REASONABLE expectation, the only way it could be unreasonable in my opinion is if there were locks preventing people who didnt like what they were hearing from leaving
we are talking about middle school age here, they manage to walk home and take buses just fine during school hours,, they are more creative than they are given credit for,,,,they can EVEN sit outside until their ride is scheduled to come and congregate with EACH OTHER,,,,,, I disagree. The deception lies in that they expected to learn arts and crafts. They did not expect, nor did they deserve a hard core sermon. There they are, in the presence of authority figures preaching to them. These are young people who can be easily intimidated by authority figures. Hell, even adults are intimidated by authority figures. How many times have you been in church listening to a sermon that you thought was inappropriate and disagreeable and you wanted to walk out? I have been there, with friends and family... I wanted to stand up and protest out loud. I wanted to walk out in front of the entire congregation. But I didn't. The reason is peer pressure, and politeness. Today, if the same thing happened, I might walk out. Mainly because I don't much care about peer pressure anymore. But doing so would make me the talk of the entire town in gossip circles. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 04/13/11 04:54 PM
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I could expect notice if DANGEROUS asian food was being served why...it's the culture I would expect in a church that god would be discussed, I might expect notice if DANGEROUS activities like blood sacrifice were going to occur, however you mean like the church should give notice that they have a child molesting priest Im speaking what is a reasonable expectation verse what is a restrictive expectation wow...are you a lawyer I expect people to be themself, within reason, the only RESTRICTION being anything that may bring physical harm upon someone else,,,, wouldn't you agree that a parent being deceived could cause harm If you are having dinnner and invite my kids and part of your customary ritual is to eat on a sheet on the floor, this would not outrage me I'm not sure they let you sit on the floor at McDonalds if part of your customary ritual is to play russian roulette while eating on the floor, this could be reason for me to feel outrage perhaps the kids may be more dangerous than the russian roulettee...some people have kids that can be described as being "children of the corn" reasonable expectation is the issue ,,, right...the parents should have a resonable expectations to send their kids to the event that were advertised in the ENVIRONMENT in which it was advertised as well,,,especially if there were no bars or locks keeping the teens in,,,,,or preventing them from leaving,,, wow...ok...it's ok to deceive children if locks are not on the door...some of those children probably got dropped off by their parents and didn't have a ride home and was stuck there ...but hey...as long as bars are not on the doors it's ok what if some of the kids did decide to leave because they felt deceived and something happened to them....I guess they deserved it...no one told them to leave there is nothing deceptive about talking about God in a church, it is a REASONABLE expectation, the only way it could be unreasonable in my opinion is if there were locks preventing people who didnt like what they were hearing from leaving we are talking about middle school age here, they manage to walk home and take buses just fine during school hours,, they are more creative than they are given credit for,,,,they can EVEN sit outside until their ride is scheduled to come and congregate with EACH OTHER,,,,,, oh so now you have deem that it's ok to decieve middle age children...also Jess stated that she lives in a small town ...which means buses probably do not run every 15 minutes like in a big city or they may not even have buses..perhaps that was part of their plan.... but heck it's ok if those little heathens have to walk 10 miles or more home ...it's good excerise for those that may be disable, but then again no one force them to leave the church and they weren't locked in there that's the same trick they do to get you into the department store...it's called the "Bait and Switch" ...advertise one thing as a sale and when they get there tell them you are out of that product and sell them something else that cost more ...it's considered to be fraud but according to you it's ok if the church does it... i dont think there was any 'switch' involved, they werent 'out of a product' and indeed had arts and crafts as advertised (if I am understanding correctly) if there were indeed no arts and crafts as advertised, I understand the reaction I thought the objection was to there being a sermon in ADDITION to the arts and crafts,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 04/13/11 05:07 PM
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Hanging out with people who have the same beliefs is nice.
I don't think that just because the arts and crafts activity was held in a church or sponsored by the church, that sermons were to be expected or necessary. I still think it is a bait and switch the way it was described. Because you object so much, I get the feeling you approve of the whole bait and switch thing msharmony. I get the feeling that you think that everything "church sponsored" or at a church should include sermons and dogma being preached. Having a discussion about God with fellow Christians is a lot different than being held hostage in a group and preached at. The way she described what happened, that is the way it went. It was not a simple discussion about God. It was a sermon. I say yuck yuck yuck..... its a desperate revival attempt by the church. That's why I avoid churches and why I am suspicious of "nice church people" who are "too nice." Beware of smiling faces they say. |
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Hanging out with people who have the same beliefs is nice. I don't think that just because the arts and crafts activity was held in a church or sponsored by the church, that sermons were to be expected or necessary. I still think it is a bait and switch the way it was described. Because you object so much, I get the feeling you approve of the whole bait and switch thing msharmony. I get the feeling that you think that everything "church sponsored" or at a church should include sermons and dogma being preached. Having a discussion about God with fellow Christians is a lot different than being held hostage in a group and preached at. The way she described what happened, that is the way it went. It was not a simple discussion about God. It was a sermon. I say yuck yuck yuck..... its a desperate revival attempt by the church. That's why I avoid churches and why I am suspicious of "nice church people" who are "too nice." Beware of smiling faces they say. I believe that it is reasonable to expect a church sponsored event to 'advertise' church values, the same way I would expect a pepsi sponsored event to 'advertise' and even sell their products at the event,,,yes I still dont call that bait and switch AS LONG AS the patron gets what is advertised along with the rest of it,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 04/13/11 06:13 PM
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Hanging out with people who have the same beliefs is nice. I don't think that just because the arts and crafts activity was held in a church or sponsored by the church, that sermons were to be expected or necessary. I still think it is a bait and switch the way it was described. Because you object so much, I get the feeling you approve of the whole bait and switch thing msharmony. I get the feeling that you think that everything "church sponsored" or at a church should include sermons and dogma being preached. Having a discussion about God with fellow Christians is a lot different than being held hostage in a group and preached at. The way she described what happened, that is the way it went. It was not a simple discussion about God. It was a sermon. I say yuck yuck yuck..... its a desperate revival attempt by the church. That's why I avoid churches and why I am suspicious of "nice church people" who are "too nice." Beware of smiling faces they say. I believe that it is reasonable to expect a church sponsored event to 'advertise' church values, the same way I would expect a pepsi sponsored event to 'advertise' and even sell their products at the event,,,yes I still dont call that bait and switch AS LONG AS the patron gets what is advertised along with the rest of it,, eeew then I guess all I can say is buyer beware... But in this particular case, apparently that is not what happened. "instead we had a hat maker preach at the girls...a quiltmaker who condemned the young women, how they dress, behave, and the evils facing them...and what Jesus wants them to do!
For two hours!...Fire, Brimstone, Admonishment, Degradation, Shaming. What would you call it then, if not bait and switch? eewww I guess one had to be there to really judge. 
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