It begins.

Great Britain's Health Care system is now facing the begining of a truth of such systems.

It has reached the point of cascade failure. Medical care will have to be 'rationed' to continue providing it for all. (such systems can not support themselves).

Many warned that such things will happen here if congress passed the HC Reform. (they were accused of 'hate' speach and 'fear' mongering... Yet they were right - watch as other HC systems around the world face such cuts and 'hard' choices).

Mathmatically it is not possible for us to provide us with full coverage and provide 'adequate' care to all without taxing each one of US 90% or better.

Kinda like pulling yourself up to a cloud by your own bootstraps.

Of course I know that many will label what I say as 'fear' mongering or even a lie.

To them I can only say... Keep your eyes open... More truths will rear their ugly heads as countries face shortfalls in cash they will begin deciding who will 'live' and who will not receive care... (some call this 'death panels').

Oh wait... Great Britain is allread having to decide what care a person will receive... Bet income and station will be a factor.

Isn't income and station how we ration health care here already?

As well you see some of the many reasons Obamacare will not work and it only profits business.

Now here is a for instance I love, say you cannot afford health care insurance... Like roughly about 48% or so of the population can't? So lo and behold tragedy strikes and that person now has to pay for EMERGENCY health care but tack on a $2500 fine to boot. Talk about insult to injury.

GERMANY! I keep saying it but are people actually looking into what they have done right?

ONE MORE TIME !

Germany pulled a rabbit out of their hat and their system works pretty well! WHY? NOT FOR PROFIT INSURANCE AND STRICT REGULATION! Also a tight grip on immigration helps. Immigrants pay taxes out of their income...

That is a knee slapper!

Fact, at least here in California we have this thing called Tax Matching. What an Employee pays in SSID taxes the employer has to match that money with his own. (DOUBLE TAPS TAXATION!) So for every tax paying employee an employer has to match their taxes with additional tax dollars. Illegal Immigrants get paid under the table here as they do elsewhere.That means the employer is paying MINIMAL insurance and really reduced tax burden at the risk of getting caught and fined. The risk vs. return is great enough so many employers to do the whole, "Under the Table" do so knowingly to make greater profits especially in a market where the money and profit are bled out of a smaller business long before any profit is realized.

The whole Tax the Rich thinking is absurd. The rich need to pay their share but God Damn for so many monkeys screaming for their blood is just if for a word, childish!

We do need tax reform but we need a fair and level system, not this convoluted travesty that is designed to bleed "The Little People" people dry to prop up support for bogus socialization! Poor People need to get off of their ***** and stop acting poor. Frankly people who are "stricken with poverty," usually are the ones trying to get out of the hole while poor people are just that... POOR! Poverty Stricken people usually will work when they can find it. Poor people expect Entitlements and hand outs!

Don't Be A Life Long Government Cheese Eater People!

Life Long Government Cheese Eater = Poor Person!


Note the term Life Long! Qualifies this towards those who live off of government Checks instead of getting a job like the rest of us! there is no shame in falling on hard times and struggling to get ahead. Sometimes we do need help in life. the thing is how much help does a person need?

Give a Homo Sapien a foot of rope, damn ape will try to run with the whole mile of it!

BAD MONKEYS! SHAME ON YOU!

pretty much just money... nothing else really matters to the HC pros...

I wanna' give credit to some Doctors.
There are many who are in the business to help people.
Not all are looking to get rich.

shall we speak of fuzzy math...

"Like roughly about 48% or so of the population can't?" How does 48% come into being in THIS equation.

Fact - population of US over 300 MILLION.

Fact - less than 40 MILLION do not have health insurance already. (40 million is the HIGHEST number used by the HC believers. Actuall number is about 37 MILLION.)

Do the darn math.

40 million is not 48% of 300 million.

No wonder we can't get through this. Everyone has their own formula for figuring the numbers.

Germany's system will fail also. It might be the third or fourth systemic failure but all the european systems and the canadian system will fail...

HC is something that must be administred from the LOCAL level as each localality has its own set of problems. NO such system can ever be flexible enough to actually provide care to LARGE populations (one size never fits all). A national government can not provide such care in a cost effective way UNLESS that government is not doing anything else (i.e. no guards on borders, no police, no education, no mail delivery, no army for defense). and taxes would be so high that no one would have 'opportunity' to do more than work for government.

Plug the numbers in and do the math... without fancy formulas and fiddle rates.

LOL they will fail.....

Fearmonger much?

they haven't failed in all this time and now that we are having a world wide recession the health care suddenly can't sustain itself??

No links = personal opinion only right?

Aye... Unforseen consequences. Get all bubbly and happy about helping your fellow man cause money flows and life is good...

That is what the european countries did.

No one expected the money flow to slow down.

This is not fear mongering... This is bald truth.

Such systems can not sustain themselves in a finite system. The global economy is a finite system bult to sustain a growing population...

Eventually the two will cross and one will fail... Either lots of people will die or the medical 'bubble' will burst.

(if lots of people die the bubble will burst a bit slower but burst it will - their 'contibution' will no longer be available to the system).

Aye no links - this is all from ME. I can add, subtract, mutiply and divide.

Australia has only a partial 'universal' health care system.

Right now they are scrambling to handle the unforseen consequence of a national disaster. (my prayers to their sucess)

In its aftermath the truth of what I have said will become abundantly clear.

Choices will have to be made between rebuilding 'infrastructure' and many other aspects of government.

Money only stretches so far.

LOL

Do the math?

How many of that 300 million are married and covered by their spouses insurance?

How many of that 300 million are children?

How many of that 300 million are elderly and covered by medicaid?

How many of that 300 million are mentally incapable of working and covered by medicaid?

etc. etc.....

Get it now?

Math can sometimes be fuzzy.

Children or not ... counted as covered (parents have insurance).
Elderly covered by medicaid - still covered (i.e. insurance).
Mentally incapable of working yet covered by medicaid... still covered.

numbers say 40 million uncovered nation wide....

NUMBERS say 40 million UNCOVERED.

Aye fuzzy math... That would be when you throw apples into an orange cart and claim they is all lemons.

Half of that 40 million are Illegals.

The 'undocumented' will be the 'cascade failure' from the German HC system.

Germany did everything the other countries didn't and their system is working. Germany remains financially solvent in the face of Europe's general failure! You evidently did not look into what Germany does different. Now if people are undocumented well, then are they illegally there? Frankly if they are illegal they don't deserve dick! What keeps them from getting legal and documented? Fear of getting caught? Please!

Likewise I get 48% from the amount of people in aggregate who cannot afford to pay into a system like this which is most of us. And rich people are supposed to pay for the rest of us why? Sounds like a Socialist/Communist bend to me if you say yes. Of that 48% I would say about 10% legitimately cannot work at all, 25% struggle to make ends meet, the rest are lazy slackers milking any system they can.

So we need a system that breaks us all uniformly?

NOT!

dunno..we are a developing nation, economy is barely stable, inflation is out of control, unemployment is a given, only the very wealthy have private healthcare...everyone else uses public healthcare...and we are doing alright...you get sick, you go to your local neighborhood clinic where you are attended, at no cost, if you need further care you go to the hospital, where you are attended at no cost, or minimal fee...need to be hospitalized? No cost..want a private room? if you can afford it you pay for it....its really just that simple.

I really cant wrap my brain around all the negativity against public health care that you americans have...really, one wonders at your thought processes sometimes....

BTW, WRONG! Germany catches illegal immigrants Germany throws them out JUST LIKE SWITZERLAND!

Cascade Failure is a buzzword.

Obama Care is a Catastrophic disaster waiting to happen the moment it goes into effect!

The devil hides in the details!

The health care system which collapsed is the United States.
Those who are healthy are scammed with ridiculous premiums and
the ill folks who actually need help and medical care are
simply kicked out and denied coverage despite all the money
paid into the insurance pool over the years.

Sick people are sued until they die, those who can't get coverage
by insurance receive astronomical bills which bankrupt them just
for trying to stay alive while insurance executives get rich.

The US HC system is a balls up.

Time to cut out all the deadwood, eliminate cherry picking and
pre-existing conditions and coverage rejections and have a rational
and useful system for a change.