I know that a computer does not 'think' like a human. But a brain operates like a computer.. technically. There is something a brain has that a computer does not have... that is consciousness. Other than that, if a brain could be removed from a body (a dead body) and somehow be made to function without consciousness... it would be a pretty damn good computer.

But this conversation is dangerously getting beyond an area where I know you don't go so I will leave it at that.

I wish you would have asked me to elucidate(that's a good word). Your first reply left me with the idea that you understood at least some of that.

Alright.

Truth is presupposed in belief, a property of knowledge and statements which correspond to reality(true statements) - not a property of reality itself. Facts are properties of reality. It is important to note here that the term "fact" is not what a fact is. The term is meant to set out properties of the universe and/or it's contents.

"The cat is on the mat" is true if and only if the cat is on the mat.

If there is a cat on the mat, then that state of affairs is a fact. A "fact" obtains such.

(I use the computer as an example in order to take the human element out of it...and because the human brain does operate like a computer.)

But the problem with using this example with you is that you believe that the human brain produces thought and I believe that it processes thought.

Computer
All information (data) given to a computer (by a human programmer) is taken as true by the computer. It has no way of knowing if any of it is useless junk data. To the computer, all information is equal. If there was a bunch of useless junk data on the computer, it would not be able to compute the difference unless it had some kind of program that was designed to do that, which it would have to get from its user/programmer.

That does not change the fact that there are two kinds of data. Good data and junk (useless) data.

The Brain.
In the beginning, the young brain has what you called "trust." It has no reason to reject any information as false, and basically will accept what it gets as true. Mistrust has to be learned.

So the human brain has something the computer does not have, and it is not simply more computing power.

You may be surprised...

No argument here, but...


Why would you claim that minds do not produce thought?

Good night(morning) Jb. I hope that life finds you well tonight/today.

Tomorrow...

I did not say that "minds" do not produce thought.

I said that the "human brain" does not produce thought, (it processes it.)

Same to ya! Goodnight. It's 2:00 am here.

you prob in bed, but i just got off work...going to jump in here and say, that human brain produce computer technology----

Creative,
Of course I have recently realized that 99% of the stuff I get via email and snail mail is junk data and non-information because it doesn't contribute to my life and it slows down my processing of reality.

This morning I'v had some realizations.

Junk data and non-information is also the reason for clutter.
This is not an efficient Universe.


Also, I feel that the brain is simply an organ like any other organ. It has very a specific function, just as other organs do. Each organ is 'programed' to 'know' (have information) as to what that function is. Their function is to receive sensory information, interpret its meaning, process it and then act on it. All of this is automatic when there are no overrides.

An override comes from the brain to the rest of the body, but within the brain an override comes from its connection to the quantum field. This is the brain's connection to quantum intelligence. This quantum intelligence is called The Mind. The mind and the brain are not the same thing. Thoughts originate from the quantum field and/or the mind, not the brain.

This is my 'idea' of how thought works and where it comes from. When the brain or an organ (even a cell) receives signals and acts on them, you could call this a level of "thinking" but it is what I call "processing" because it is basically automatic and relatively unconscious.

I think that there is some legitimacy in your clear distaste regarding false information(lies and untruths). Call it junk data or whatever, that's all good with me. It does not really matter what we call it as long as I understand(and you understand) what it is that we're talking about.

Do you understand this...



The first sentence 'defines' truth by manner of how it is used and/or instantiated by humans. The bit about facts explains the difference between our truth claims and truth conditions, going on to explain what I mean by "obtain".

Yes I understand what you are saying and how you are using the terms truth and fact. I have always thought of those two terms in exactly the opposite way.

That is, that truth is a property of reality (and information that makes up reality) and that fact is presupposed in belief, a property of knowledge.

The reason being, when I hear someone speak of truth I think on a large scale.. the truth of reality. (Not whether a person is telling the truth or whether that is a true statement..)

When I hear someone claim "This is a fact!" I think in terms of a scientific fact that has been studied, observed and proclaimed a fact by a group of authorities.

I'm not sure I can actually change the way of think of these terms but at least I understand how you are using them.

Lemme put all that to use with your last post...



According to what I've said - "An override comes from the brain to the rest of the body, but within the brain an override comes from it's connection to the quantum field." is true if and only if an override comes from the brain to the rest of the body, but within the brain an override comes from it's connection to the quantum field. There are no other truth conditions for that claim. If and only if there is a state of affairs that that claim obtains, then that claim is true, and is a "fact". In order for the "fact" to obtain, there must be properties of the universe and/or it's contents by which the facts obtain and by virtue of which those statements can be true.

The brain must exist and have properties.
The body must exist and have properties.
The quantum field must exist and have properties.
An override must be a property of the quantum field.
The quantum field must be connected to the body via the brain in such a way that the brain is a 'conduit' for the 'travel' of an "override".

My immediate questions would be what is an "override"?
What is the "quantum field" and how do we know what it's properties are?
Why would the brain not be a property of the body?

I did not say the brain is not a property of the body.

I said: An override comes from the brain to the rest of the body, but within the brain an override comes from its connection to the quantum field.

In computer terms it would be called a command. It could also be a change of programing. In terms of human thought, it is a directive that alters or overides and automatic/unconscious action or activity. It is probably a conscious action but it does not have to be.

But that would depend on how you would describe a "conscious action." Here I mean to use it as relative to a human, who is purposeful and aware of what they are doing.

I might add, that I have no way of knowing if an override must come from the brain. Overides could come into the body directly to other areas. I don't know that much about any of the details. I'm neither a microbiologist or quantum scientist so don't expect a lot.

A quantum field is a region of influence that is mediated by exchanges of energy, which is constantly redistributed in a dynamic pattern.

Properties depend on what kinds of energy make up a field.

A field is a matrix or medium which connect two or more points in space, usually via a force, like gravity or electromagnetism. The force is usually represented by ripples in the field, or waves. An electromagnetic field, to use an example, is simply an electrical field and a magnetic field which intersect, sending out waves of energy at the speed of light. An electric and magnetic field forms around any electric charge.

The notion of an electromagnetic field is simply a convenient abstraction invented by scientists to make sense of the seemingly remarkable actions of electricity and magnetism and their ability to influence objects at a distance, and technically into infinity, with no detectable substance or matter in between.

OK Creative allow me explain this scientifically.

Ya got this half dragon half unicorn that nobody can see right? He lives in the ground and hates people! because they pollute.

Let's call him phil.

He takes a poop like we all do and because he hates us he flings at people when they are babies hoping to make them sick, which is why babies throw up so much.

Now this affects their brains to! So that when they grow up, they get morals. Its all science really. We evolved to ingest phil's poo and it warps our brains.

Truth is at hand, not in the manner of existing independently but relatively. Truth is relative as it is the primary link between thought/belief and reality. It relates thought/belief to reality. This is an autonomous and necessary condition for the existence of truth.

Any questions?

Truth is at hand.


I like that.

I'm going to quote you in my inner scripture thread.

http://mingle2.com/topic/show/299913