Yahweh is not jc or j-hovah

Thier is a big difference between the chr-stian world and the Yahwists world.

We both read from the same book.

So why the difference? The difference is this.Yahweh sets down a pattern to be followed and never changes. In the OT as they call it.

Eccl 9:10-12

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

11 I returned and saw under the sun that —

The race is not to the swift,
Nor the battle to the strong,
Nor bread to the wise,
Nor riches to men of understanding,
Nor favor to men of skill;
But time and chance happen to them all.
12 For man also does not know his time:
Like fish taken in a cruel net,
Like birds caught in a snare,
So the sons of men are snared in an evil time,
When it falls suddenly upon them.
NKJV

They teach you need no skill. Just believe.. Faith thats all you need.

All True but not in the fashion they have preserved favor or Grace.

For how can you give Grace and then say the Pardon is not valid?

Pardon and Grace are in the same sphere. They allow forgiveness but not pardon forgiveness. Thier is a difference.

One acts over and over all i gotta do is ask forgiveness and I am granted a 1000 times.

Thats not learning. Thats taking advantage and as Ecc. says The Sonss of Men Are Snared in Time.

Grace is the embodiedment of a Pardon as we do this is your chance.

You may still mess up but your learning teaches you to do better not sin as you want for forgiveness is at hand. no no

A Yahwists desires the Scriptures.. They want to know more. Everyday is a day of the Word. They can not help it because it is engrained in them from a wanting willing Spirit That Desires to know and learn and do more.

So no one man teaches us. We have come together to teach ourselves and reason together when we disagree. No need not to have to envolve the Elders. which we have and deacons. But they sit and learn the same as everyone else.. It like a Town meeting we have seen of ideas of study.

Not a sit down lecture with little note taking and believing they are saved because they go and do not disagree. not study it for truth what they have heard and know it so for themselves.
If they did they would not go to any other writing but the Holy Scriptures to prove thier point. Posting a paste is what someone else thinks Do they really know if they agree or if its true?

We desire it. I want to learn. Thats the difference i can not get enough of it. Its got life in it. The Spirit shows me what to say when needed as prophesied..


Matt 15:28



28 Then Yahshua answered and said to her, "O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you DESIRE ." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
NKJV

Desiring something is when you see great value in it. You want to learn.

Matt 10:18-20
18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
NKJV


You do not need other writings. The word that is in you will be brought out. Yahweh's word Yahweh's Spirit.

Hour is talked about extensively in the extended writings.

Do you think people will just up and talk the spirit by quoting scripture from a Bible?

NO

2 Tim 3:12-17
12 Yes, and all who desire to live Holy in Messiah Yahshua will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Yahshua our Messiah.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of Elohim, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of Yahweh may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You will Desire to live like Yahshua. You will meet evil imposters who decieve.But the Children are assured of what they have learned from the Holy Scriptures.Because ALL SCRIPTURE is given from Yahweh.

You are equiped, ready. You know. You have studied you have reasoned for a surety for yourself and others.

You have great Sword. A flaming one. The Word of Yahweh to give every man a reason for your faith that might ask.

To be prepared and the spirit will work through you like a lightening bolt from the arc because the word and the manna that budded is in you and you have budded and ready for the feading of the Word of Truth. The Little Flock who follows the word and will not listen to another.

Tough stuff, no weakling. The Sword of Faith is powerful.

Don't just let go of this post because you are afraid you may not understand or think I am Way out thier.

Thats not what its about. Challenge me everyone. it can only be for all of us to learn and see the facts without malice contempt.

But with a spirit of Sincerity to find out the truth whatever it may be and from whomever it comes from. Its a win win situation if you learned right or wrong as long as you learn and you will and I will.

Give it a chance.tell me!!!! May Yahweh's Blessings Be on The Wise and Simple.... Shalom...Miles

May I answer with a spirit of Sincerity as you have requested?

Here's my truth Miles:

I know that I'm a decent honest and sincere person. I know that I'm not an evil person and I am not troubled by "evil".

Therefore why in the world would I be interested in learning about religions that are entirely obsessed with concepts of "sin", evil, and what some angry God might supposedly do to people who refuse to supposedly "obey" his commandments?

Moreover, having already studies the Abrahamic religions in quite some depth, there is very little, that I do that this Abrahamic God supposedly frowns upon. In fact, about the only thing I can sincerely think of that may even qualify as "disobedience" is the simple fact that I don't believe these religions are valid.

So what's left? I'm supposed to fear that this God I don't believe in is going to be mean to me for not believing in him?

To me that's absurd.

Especially when I know in my heart that I'm a perfectly decent and honest person. I'm not out to harm anyone, or get over on anyone in anyway. I have no 'lusts' for anything. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate things, it just means that I don't lust after anything.

I have no desire to be rich, famous, powerful, or rule over anyone. I have no desire to take advantage of anyone for my own purposes. And I never have felt that way in my entirely life.

So these religions make no sense to me Miles. Everything these religions claim that I'm supposed to be like are clearly false.

I'm simply not like these religions claim that men are supposed to be like. It's that simple.

Why should I believe in doctrines that claim that I'm like something I'm not?

That's ridiculous.

If they are wrong about me, then they are probably wrong about everything.

It seem to me that in order for a person to believe in these religions the very first requirement is that a person must feel like an evil person who clearly lusts after things and is willing to harm other or take advantage of other people to get what they want.

Well, clearly there ARE people like that in this world. I most certainly don't deny that. But I'm not one of them.

Also, I do not innately nor intuitively feel that I am at odds with any supreme being. On the contrary I feel like I'm in perfect harmony with "God" if God exists. I am not the least bit afraid of death, and I am as prepared to "meet my maker" as a person can possibly be.

I've said it a billion times on these forums, I'm not at odds with God, if God is at odds with me, then he's the one who's got a problem. Not me. He's the one who's going to have to get nasty about things, because I'm certainly not going to get nasty about. If he's pissed about something then I just ask that he un-create me and go on his merry way. No need to get nasty about it.

So unless you are trying to convince me that our creator is "nasty" then what's your point?

It seems to me that for a person to have a need to believe in the Abrahamic religions they must necessarily be distraught or unhappy with life and in dire need of some sense of security or 'salvation'.

These religions must first convince me that I'm a nasty person in need of "salvation" before they can "save" me.

And to be perfectly sincere Miles, you're never going to convince me of that because I'm totally at peace in my heart and I don't feel that I have a nasty bone in my body so what's up with all this dire need for repentance?

The only way these religions can be made to work is to first convince the person that they are a nasty person who has turned against God, blah, blah, blah,....

Well, I KNOW BETTER.

I haven't turned against God. That's utterly nonsense.

If I had I would KNOW IT.

So these accusatory religions necessarily have to be a lie.

That's my sincere response Miles.

I'm just not interested in hearing about angry religions that demand that everyone is a sinner and has turned against God. I see no value in them at all.

They are clearly founded on lies.

Alrighty then, I'll go first.


Let's start near the beginning, shall we?

Common understanding of scriptures has man's "fall from grace" and subsequent expulsion from Eden as a consequence of disobedience. Along with the expulsion, it is said that man is the cause of disease and other unpleasant things.

I don't see it this way at all. I see the knowledge as poison and that G-d protected us from eternal life in such a state by removing access to the tree of life, thus limiting our suffering to a temporal physical existence.

I see this problem as belonging to mankind, our own struggle with ourselves.

So, what I'm asking is this:
Is there any scriptural support for the notion that man's "fall from grace" was because of disobedience?

Shalom Abra.

I see people all the time turned off by religion. They see what the say chr-stian religion says as the Scriptual embodiment of the Holy Scriptures.

I do not condemn you nor never have I. You know in your heart what you truely belive.

I know you have studied and I believe more than most people who claim to believe.

You saw the hypocricy in what you were being told vs what you could read for yourself.

That was the nailing to the tree that Yahshua did. You are the Temple and you do not have to have someone tell you what is right or wrong. The Priesthood did this. They made judgements and wrote what they call the Koballah I believe which is basically a interpretation. word by word of MEN what the scriptures meant and how to worship.

I am sure you know that it was the Religious leaders of the day that Yahshua scolded.

He said you make the word of Yahweh of no effect by your traditions of men.

So I understand perfectly. It was the people who wanted power over people.. I know and u do as I say.

We see the same today. we see the same in the Doctrine of Hell.. a scare tactic for the control of the masses.

The common people who the religious called sinners is who Yahshua was confortable with.

Who would he be at ease with today? The only thing I know for sure thier is he would be upset with those who preach you are going to hell and they would seek to kill him because of it.. same ole same ole.

Could you imagine people being told I have not found such faith as in Abra as in all the chr-stian world. They would hate him.

A true believer will not waiver they may not understand but that is to thier advantage. When people say I do not believe it and tell you why is a reason to study more for yourself.

To many people do not know what they believe they know what people have told them.

You are an example of needing to prove it to yourself and from what i have seen it ticked you off they lied to you but will not even try and look at a different view.

The scriptures interpret themselves. But man does not like that.

We hear that people will not make it that do not believe while Yahshua is away. But is that true?

Zech 14:16-19

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which Yahweh strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
NKJV


Right here after Yahshua comes back we see unbelievers still. REven what has happened they still do not believe.

Now with Yahshua back thier is no reason for unbelief so does he strike them dead?

No.

He tells them I will take what you need most from you to teach you what is right and what is wrong.. He will cause it to not rain untill they come to Jerusalem every year to learn.

Yet the same ones who tell you that you are a sinner sin themselves. willingly .

What King is happy with his subjects when they come teaching in the Kings name but not doing the Kings instrustions?

Who is he upset more with the one who he sent or the ones that he sent his disciples to?

The message is not to win converts by your own reasoning but by the Kings declarations.

They should take heed that Yahshua is the same yesterday today and tommorrow and give up thier Idea these scriptures are for the future only.

Yahshua told us .

Matt 24:24
4 For there shall arise false Messiah's, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible , they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

The whole world is almost decieved. Who is it. We hear from actually many religions that a Messiah is coming.

They seem to all have this in common.

So as you say who is Right?

This is a decision we must all make and we are told thier will be a GREAT falling away.

Thats happening right now. I see it continually even the scholars of the day are questioning but what are they questioning?

They are questioning, if it be true. Instead of saying look maybe I should look harder and learn for myself and teach myself and reason with others untill I have a good Knowledge.

Instead the masses are throwing up thier hands and doing whats right in every mans eyes.

Tradition is a powerful thing. Admiting what you have learned all your life from a child is a farce is a hard thing to muster.

Thier answer throw the baby out with the bath water.

So Abra only you at this point in time know your heart. and Yahweh does not condemn a heart thats true to itself. or this would not be true?

Rev 20:12

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before Yahshua; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV

Works.. What are works. Its how you conduct your life.

It seems only the Believers believe people who do not believe but are good people will be cast aside.

life does not teach this. He says who will not make it and thats if they refuse to change.

1 John 3:15
5 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
NKJV

We need to Love one another. Thats a reasonable commandment.. Blessings of Shalom and Wisdom Abra..Miles

I'm fully aware of that Miles.

I have never felt judged or condemned by you ever. And I certainly hope the feeling is mutual.

I actually agree with many of your views to a far greater extent than you might realize. I think if you and I sat down and had a discussion on religion we could probably agree on much, perhaps not in the details, but maybe in the overall essence of things.

There are things that I simply do not accept. And I'm sure you've read those views many times here on the forums.



Yes, I do. I also believe that he referred to the Torah itself as "your laws" when speaking to the Pharisees.



Again I agree to a point. However therein lies a huge concern. What 'word' of Yahweh? The Torah? That's what I'm not convinced of. From my point of view Yahshua was not supporting the Torah to be the verbatim "Word of God".

Rather than bringing a "New Covenant", perhaps he was merely pointing out the fact that the "Old Covenant" has been lost, and that the Torah no longer represents anything that God had ever condoned.

That's a thought worthy of pondering perhaps.



I agree.




I agree.



I agree.



Well, isn't there something fundamentally wrong with people lying to support a religion? If truth can't support it, then why lie about it?



People interpret written language. Written language does not interpret anything. It's just words.



Well, you're going far beyond where I care to go Miles. I simply don't accept all of these so-called prophecies and visions that are written in the Bible.



Yes, I agree that this makes sense as the moral of these stories Miles. I still believe that these stories are just the creations of men, perhaps to instill in people the very concepts that you see here?



What religions have this in common? All the Abrahamic religions?

I don't think that the Eastern Mystics are necessarily awaiting any messiah. Although some specific version or sect may have created such rumors.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing in Wicca or any ancient Celtic religions that have prophecized the coming of any messiah. So I'm not convinced that all religions have these theme in common.



I personally feel that many atheist have very sound reasons for believing that there is no God. Moreover, I don't see anything wrong with that.

As far as I'm concerned it would be utterly ludicrous for a supposedly all-wise being to expect a modern technological society to shun scientific knowledge in favor of believing in ancient rumors about a God who had supposedly told people to stone their unruly children to death, etc, etc, etc.

I mean, what would such a God want people to do? Be FOOLISH?

Because IMHO, that's precisely what they'd need to be in order to continue to believe in these ancient fables of people being possessed by demons that need to be 'cast out', etc.

How could any God blame someone for choosing intelligence over foolishness? And more to the point, why would he even want them to?



So what are you saying Miles? That's it's not important to believe in the Bible or in Yashua? All we need to do is be a good person?

If so, then a belief in religion itself is unimportant. Just as I have been suggesting.



I agree.

And that's why I speak out against using religion to accuse our brothers of turning against God.

From my perspective religious bigotry = hate.

That's my thesis.

I mean, if someone wants to believe in the Abrahamic religions, more power to them. But let them confess that it's a personal faith, and let them stop accusing everyone else who doesn't believe in those myths of rejecting God.

Because that amounts to nothing more than brotherly hate, IMHO.

Unbelief is nothing new. With so many legends and tales of the super natural coming down through history it is hard to believe which one is true.

yet the major ones the Abrahamic as you call it the Jewish and Islam and persion all have a central theme.

We were created by a creator who is sending a messiah back to correct the world from the evils it has created.

Not the supreme being but man.. A savior he is sending.

Now i am not sure about alot of the others but I believe most speak of someone who is coming back to Save the world not destroy it.

My estimate I would believe is low but probally right now 5 billion people live in a society that says a savior is coming.

I also would assume almost all of them are saying its soon.. That the climate of the scriptures is right for this to happen.

Most say that the world at this time is turned upside down. That good is bad and bad is good. all claiming thiers is the good one.

In science we still have no idea how Stonehedge or the pyramids or how many other wonders of the world accomplished amazing feats that many we could not do with what we believe they must of used to accomplish these feats.

one must wonder if man from 1000's of years ago did not have more knowledge about the unseen thaan we do.

How is it possible for just men and wood or bronze tools to move a 100 ton piece of rock 100's of miles sculpt it and place it in a skyward fashion that is so exact that we can not even duplicate it as good as they did with precision.

How did they do that? We do not know. but yet we know someone did. If we did not have these testaments of great feats of mankind but we found it written in a book that they did these things would we believe they did?

I think we would say they are just stories.. Make believe by people who was not to smart.

But these same regions of people claim a time is coming when a Savior is coming to save the world from itself.

Why would they claim we are destined to destroy ourselves when the world was mostly cavemen type uninterlectuals just barely above an apes mentality?

To say thier is not reason to believe something is going on that we do not understand but they SAW and believed and not believed also is coming would it not be a logical conclusion that something is happening right now.

We are told when this end of the age when a Savior will intervene on our behalf we will see. roaring seas , earthquakes begin to increase more and more knowledge will increase greatly. men will be in terror of thier surroundings.. Children will rule the parents and become so disobediet they will have thier parents killed or caused to be killed.

These religions all say EVIL will be on the earth and they describe this EVIL as saying the Antients are fairy tales as in Timithy.

2 Tim 3:1-8

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of Yahweh, 5 having a form of Holiness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
NKJV

Thwese things are so true in this day and all these religions point to what will be happening with nature itself as what will be happening also with the nature of man.

It can not be. How has the antients predicted through so many tales the same thing but said a little different but basically the saame thing.. we will not believe so we will destroy ourselves because we have got to smart.

With this knowledge and belief that these writings are fables comes what from the unbeliever?

2 Tim 3:5-7
5 having a form of Holiness but denying its power.( DENYING ITS POWER)( But having a form of HOLINESS) ( I am GOOD thats all i need) And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
NKJV

Notice it creeps into HOUSEHOLDS.

This I AM attitude that does not need a Savior is self sufficient.

Gullible women.. what is that? loaded down with sins.

Led away by various LUSTS.

Thats all self explanitory as the scriptures when speaking of womens sins mainly talk about thier SEXUAL Prowness.

All so true. and when will all this happen?

Matt 24:7-8
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
NKJV
Terror..

Isa 28:19-20
19 As often as it goes out it will take you;
For morning by morning it will pass over,
And by day and by night;
It will be a terror just to understand the report."

20 For the bed is too short to stretch out on,
And the covering so narrow that one cannot wrap himself in it.
NKJV
It will be Terror to just understand the report.

What is Yahweh saying?

The bed is short. you can not stretch out.. ( Can't get comfortable?)

You will want to wrap yourself in your blankets.. To Hide from TERROR.

all this when children rule thier parents. the sexes are undecerned, The Scriptures are make believe , the seas roar, Knowledge is increased and earthquakes are everywhere.

Yea we can say well we know now..Technology they just guessed?

But all about a time of great troubles. Terror and sex gone wild.

The sames as the ones as far as we know came after the great Builders of the Wonders of The world.

But they did more than those great builders because we wonder what these great monuments mean.

The Holy Scriptures we know has a theme of Warning us the time is near. Think about which is greater? Blessings...Miles

All I will say is one thing. Have you ever stopped to consider that....maybe the writers of the Bible did this intentionally to make us believe it is God's prophecies being fulfilled when in reality, they are the ones that are making all this happen? They meaning those in the highest orders of power in the world.

It's the perfect scapegoat is it not?

Not intended as an argument Miles, but rather just to offer you my point of view let me say the following:

You speak of the "Major Legends". But there is no such thing.

To begin with the Abrahamic religions do not truly represent different legends that just happen to be saying the same things, on the contrary, they are simply a single legend that has become distorted and fragmented over time.

So it's wrong to think that they "support each other" by having similar claims. They are just all the same folklore that has diverged in various ways. So there's no reason to be impressed by their similarities.

Secondly, Greek "mythology" was actually considered to be true by the ancient Greeks. They didn't build all their monuments and buildings to characters that they knew were mythological. Nope, they truly believed in the legends of Zeus and all the other "gods" associated with those legends.

So depending on when you live, you see a different picture.

Also depending on where you live you see a different picture. Eastern Mysticism doesn't have these prophecies. Nor did the American Indians, nor the Aztecs or Incas and so on.

The reason the the Abrahamic legends have grown to their current state is simply because the people who believed in those legends and supported them just happened to also be the "winners" who conquered much of the world.

An just LQQK at the history of these religions. What are they telling people? Either BELIEVE or be DAMNED! Not only will you be damned by God, but you're going to be damned by society too as an outcast, and a pathetic rebellious "non-believer", who must clearly be a heathen who is turning against God and all that is good and wholesome.

And then you're going to wonder why these religions have maintained their popularity or have become the MAIN beliefs of the masses?

It's no wonder at all.

Just look at me Miles. Here we are in 2010, and the Christians are all claiming that I'm refusing to worship "Our Father" and that I'm knowing-fully and willfully rejecting the "Word of God", all because of these legends.

There is a LOT of social pressure to embrace and support these legends even today. Can it be any wonder that they are so damn tenacious? They are designed to incite society to belittle and shun anyone who refuses to acknowledge them as the "Word of God".

That is the basis of their very THEME of a jealous God.

So there is absolutely no reason to be impressed that they have grown to infest a large portion of humanity. They were designed precisely for that purpose. Someone got that idea started in these legends and it just snowballed.

In fact, the very legend starts out with a self-proclamation by the God itself that it's a jealous God and it condemns anyone who worships any other Gods very its very first commanded, "Thou shalt not have any other gods before me".

It was designed that way from the get-go. And ironically these is the basis of Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and all of the myriad of diverse protesting Protestants.

So they all claim to be worshiping the very same jealous God.

So when you say something like:



It's just not the slightest bit impressive to me. They all have the same central theme because they are all basically the same folklore.

Now if we saw religions all throughout the globe that had totally independent origins saying the same things then that might be impressive. But that's not the case. On the contrary we see that religions that were totally independent were also totally different.

And that tells me that religion isn't from God, it's all just the made-up superstitious rumors of men.

What I like about Eastern Mysticism is that, in truth, it's not a "religion" at all, really. It's just a spiritual philosophy that has been thought about quite deeply.

Of course, "religions" have indeed sprung out of it. There can be no denying that. But that just goes to show even further how mankind can't stick with philosophy, everyone wants to try to go beyond philosophy and claim to have something that is absolutely divine and came directly from the "gods".

So in any case, Miles, you've lost me already when you even speak about the Abrahamic legends as though they are a special case. They truly aren't, other than the fact that they are based on a concept that if you reject their jealous God you will be cast into a lake of fire and no one will like you, not God, or anyone else.

Society itself will shun you if you reject these fables.

So that's why they became so "popular". Not by choice, but by social mandate.

So there's nothing impressive about them.

That's my view.

Shalom Abra.

Yes the main theme of the Major religion/people of the world is a Creationism, Flood and your Abrahamic religions as you call them.

They all want to claim a central theme.. Those 3 plus they want Yahshua in thier also.

I do not know who worships Zues these days yet it is quite apperent Greek Mythology has been put into the Theme of the NT.

In that regard Zues is alive and well.

I do not understand how you can say they do not support each other by having major claims?

They have a basis that has had wedges driven in them no different than when we see 1000 different denominations claiming the same faith.

Everyone wants to be chief and they break away from each other. But they agree on a starting point mainly the Torah.. Not that they want to do as it says but that it is thier starting point.


It was not untill 325ad at the council of Nicea at Constinbul Turkey. or the council was in turkey where Constantinople decided what the new scriptures was going to be. then hundreds of years later did this get moved to Rome.

We hear of The Holy Roman Impire but relating to when the scriptures were canonized that was in Turkey a Arab nation today at least

On eastern mystisim it is quite odd with this 2012 prophecies where a exact date is set is set during a time of Great Knowledge.. an Explosion of knwoledge.. from the 64 bit circles of antient china(?) or japenese culture to the Myrans to the Hoppie Indians of the southwest.

How can it be chance that all these things point to a small time period in time and they be right by scientific views that this date they picked only happens for a milky way view every 28000 years?

They are smarter than us. Just like in the Torah it says these angels walked and talked to people. They knew they were not really humans. They learned from them.

Either believe or be damned?

Thier you have it splits. Who did Yahshua damn? Not the common Joe.

He did not actually Damn anyone just quoted scriptures about how wrong they were and they hated him for it.

When the scriptures says if it were possible even the Elect would be decieved and then gives us a count Tribe by Tribe who will be the few actually professing the scriptures and not realigning them for thier own purpose we have a verey small number.. 144,000 a spect of the worlds population.

But the world is shown the Truth By 2 Prophets who Satan can not kill. Thats the Prophecie that the Evangel of Yahweh will be preached to all the world and they will see thier power and will hate them then 3 and 1/2 years later they are killed.

But Yahweh does not give a date of dec 21th 2012. He says no man knows the time.. but he will reveal his secre6ts to the prophets his people who all they got to do to be one is follow and learn with an open heart.Not thier way but his. But the whole world says I want it my way and they are destroying themselves.

We preach freedom. Peace.every thing goes and we say we are tolorant.

No this is whats destroying us MANS ways when he throws the Baby out with the Bath Water as he has The Holy Scriptures.

Oh They are old.. not possibly true.. They are killing our youth. they are Evil.

Prophesied thats what would be said and thats whats being said.

The post earlier asked that they did this.. well they are pretty darn smart then and had a vision 1000's of years away.

They never saw it and what man does not want to see it in his lifetime.

A Jealous Elohim?

What does that mean.. I am Jealous for my kids and if someone trys to hurt them i am a Bear I bet you are too.

qanna'

OT:7067 qanna' (kan-naw'); from OT:7065; jealous:

KJV - jealous. Compare OT:7072.

qanna'

OT:7065 qana' (kaw-naw'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make) zealous, i.e. (in a bad sense) jealous or envious:


KJV - (be) envy (-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous (-y), very, (be) zeal (-ous).


qanna'

OT:7072 qannow' (kan-no'); for OT:7067; jealous or angry:


KJV - jealous.
+

These are all the root words for Jealous in the Hebrew scriptures for the 10 commandments.

Here is the commandment it is in. the root of 7067 is whats used here.

Ex 20:4-6
You shall not make for yourself a carved image — any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, Yahweh your Elohim, am a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
NKJV

This is a contract between Yahweh and his people. They did not have to accept it. His laws that are the basis for the Scriptures.

Yahshua said it .

Matt 6:33

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of Yahweh, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
KJV

Telling his children look to me 1st and you will not get big headed and think all kinds of imaginations of your heart towards your brother.

A measuring stick and when you do this what did he say was thier promice?

but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

A Jealous Elohim who shows Mercy to his children. Those who abuses them this promice is not to.;

Yahweh is a Father and Common Sence says A Father Does this With His Children.. Does it not?

As far as independent origins.. they are few and far between but how is it they all with all out Technology know how figured out something that only happens every 28,000 years and the scriptures say this will happen when you see this Knowledge Explosion and who can not see we are in knowldge Explosion so vast who knows what we know. everything is outdated when we learn it.

You can either take the information and learn it and see or you can disregard it.

Its all in a simple book.

Just do not put it on Pause. When we pause it and go away we forget what the beginning was telling us and the end plot is deceptive to us because we lost the theme the clues of information thats promiced to us because he will reveal it to us if we will listen.. Blessings of Shalom...Miles

I disagree that we say "everything goes". We do not condone the harming of others, nor do we condone oppression, or uncalled for bigotries that are based on nothing more that superstitions or prejudices.

I see nothing wrong with any of that.



Calling them "Holy Scriptures" doesn't make it so. If the real truth is that they are nothing more than man-made myths, then that's what they are.

I personally don't believe than any rational supreme being would expect modern day societies to continue to cling to ancient superstitious myths that are based on the idea that evil spirits can be cast out of people, and that our creator would knowingly and willfully be associated with a gory blood sacrifice of an innocent man as a symbol of "love".

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me, I don't believe it should make any sense to any intelligent well-educated person. I wouldn't expect a supreme creator to expect modern day people to believe in such things. Especially not to the point of passing negative judgments against them for not believing in such things.

Modern scientists know far more about this universe than most people realize. The real creator is indeed speaking to us through the stars and the information that is written in the stars, not through fables written by superstitous men.

So why not look at God's true word that is written in the universe itself, long before the Earth was ever formed, much less human beings.

We got here via evolution. And God has been kind enough to show us precisely how that process has been unfolding for over 14 billion years.

We no longer need to rely on the rumors of ancient fables. We now have access to God's Word directly via the universe herself.

Ok.. Lets just say for 1 instance why did Yahweh make man?

just think for yourself that Yahweh is real.

Now from what we know satan rebelled.

Then we see that Man is made. Why? whats the purpose of making man? Shalom...Miles

I don't know Miles.

Spider just pointed to a website the other day that claims that God created man for his own pleasure.

http://www.gotquestions.org/why-did-God-create-us.html

So how does that line up with your views?

I don't believe in Satan myself. I personally think it's utterly absurd to think than anyone could believe that they could "overthrow" God. That very notion is kind of silly if you ask me.

After all, what constitutes God's "power", nothing more than his authority like a mortal King?

Would Satan have "won" his war against God if had convinced 2/3's of God's angels to side with him instead of only 1/3?

Does God's power depend on the size of his "army"?

These are interesting questions Miles.

As far as I'm concerned if "God" is supposed to be the creator of all that exists, then for any object of his creation to think that they could "overthrow" God, is simply absurd.

How do you "overthrow" the cosmic magician that created you?

Because that's what God would ultimately be. A cosmic magician who has powers that no one else can have. The very idea of "overthrowing" such a being is crazy. Satan would not only need to be evil, but he would also need to be stupid beyond belief.

So the whole idea of a demonic angel who tried to overthrow God can be nothing more than a silly myth as far as I'm concerned.

So anyway, why do you think God created us Miles?

Believe it or not, I'm truly interested in your thoughts on this. Whether I believe them or not is another story. But I may find them interesting in any case.

That is funny because that is the case with satan.

The Angels I believe were created like us but in spirit. Thier mind processes are the same.

Just like people who decide they want to be king of whatever on earth. Its a futile exercise that only they believe.

No different than say Heavens gate that thought they would catch the comet.

The end result is the same but time is not the same either with them as they do not age they are created and thats that. they learn by doing then or make mistakes.

Satans just got a big head because he became so popular for whatever reason. Just like a bullie who pushes everyone around and then he finds someone a little tougher than he is.

The difference is we see the angels before Yahweh and seeing him whenever. They know his ways. They are the same as in his book.

They were given freewill like us the only difference is they were born spirit the 1st time and we are not.

Satan has a big head and he believes he can overthrow his creater and angels followed.

I mean he is stubborn he is chained for a 1000 years while Yahshua is rulling the earth and then let go.. Makes you wonder why is he let go.

Yet he still believes he can rule and gathers an army of Gawd and Maygog and he is defeated again then done away and the books are opened up and people are judged by thier works.

What kind of person was they.

A wiening out of the tares from the wheat as before.

So we end up with a Yahweh people who all believe. all are spirit now.like the Angels. Yahrusalem is a city you can see across the Universe. A 1500 hundred cubed miles of pure light being able to be seen who knows how far.

Imagine that thats awesome a city over half the size of the USA and is 1500 miles tall too.

Will those mansions that come down from above that John saw, will they be stacked, floating or what other things can you image in the City of Light.. The Universal City of the Heavens..

Sounds Star Tracky huh?

But here his children are now proved higher than the Angels because most taste Death or spiritual instant change.

We are told we are sons of Yahweh and the Bride of Yahshua.

Married in Spirit in the Family name of Yah.. everyone haveing his own white stone.. The stone of Marriage that was given with thier new name on if. as a son or wife takes on a new name.

Like Yahshua the Yah is the family name and the Shua is the white stone written in it.

Yahshua or Yah Saves because all names have meaning. Not dust in the wind.

Just a thought about where we are heading when we are all spirit being now higher than the angels taking on the Family name.

Abraham was told his descendents would be like the stars of heaven if he could count them.

Interesting as it say Yahweh knows every hair on our head he also says he knows all the stars by name.

Is that the Childrens names? The white stone?

If it is do we then go out and each of us through Yahshus can now create from nothing?

Can we start new worlds now that we have t6he knowledge we have needed for such a great responcibilty that the Angels proved they were not up to?

I do not know.. Just a thought thier what do you think?..Shalom...Miles

Well, as a fairytale he's let go to keep the drama going and the readers captivated.

But you're right, if we ask why a genuine God who is truly concerned with goodness would unleash such a demon on the world it makes no sense at all.

So what do we take from that?

As a fable it makes sense.

As a reality it make no sense.

Works for me.

~~~~~



Well, if you stop and think about this it all has to do with the illusion of the ego. Eastern Mysticism has this covered.

Moreover, if this is the central underlying theme of the Christian religion then truly the only real 'sinners' are the people who are blinded by their egos to the point where they want to rule over others, bully others, or somehow take advantage of others for their own gain and to inflate their own sense of ego even further.

Christianity fails horribly in this sense. Sure, it recognizes all of the above via the parable of Satan, but the problem is that it doesn't stop there. It continues on to dismiss and degrade everyone who even remotely rejects the religion itself.

Do you see what has happened?

The religion itself has become like its very own Satan! It's not happy until IT rules over all!

Christianity is nothing more than religious form of Satan. It wants to be the TOP DOG and it won't settle for being equal to all other religions. It wants to stomp out all other religions and become the King of King and Lord of Lords of religions just like Satan's ambition.

The religion itself has actually become the egotistical demon that it warns us to avoid. It's an oxymoronic religion.

Now you're just not listening. It's been taught in here many times, Satan is allowed to have the power of temptation on earth and causing tragedy to happen for our punishment. If there was no obstacles to overcome there would be no way to EARN eternal life. Heaven is a gift for our obedience to our father, if there's nothing to possibly sway us away from being obedient, what would our reward be for? If Satan didn't roam around causing pain and trouble, we would still be basically living in the garden of Eden. There would be no pain, no suffering, in the long run there would be no punishment for our disobedience.

It's been 'taught here'?

You mean it's been evangelized and proselytized here.

Sorry Cowboy no cigar.

First, off that's not the original thesis of the biblical fables, and it would be a lie to claim that it is.

Adam and Eve were NOT created with the intent of having to EARN their way into some eternal life. The story you are attempting to create is simply not the Biblical story.

Adam and Eve supposedly FELL from grace. So it was never the purpose of this religion to be a story about a God who set up a creation with the Goal of having people EARN their way into heaven.

Sorry Cowboy, but the story you'd LIKE for the Bible to become is simply NOT the story that is told in the actual cannon of fables.

You'd need to write your own fables for your fairytale to have merit.

Besides who's not listening?

These types of issues have been addressed and dismissed by the brightest minds of humanity already:

"Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbour such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." - Albert Einstein

"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." - Carl Sagan

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation." - Carl Sagan


"What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job." - Carl Sagan

"You see, the religious people -- most of them -- really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would've listened to him more.
If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition." - Carl Sagan

"Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science?" - Carl Sagan

"Good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things, but it takes religion to get good people to do bad things" - Stephen Weinberg

"It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvelous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil - which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama." - Richard Feynman

I just had to toss this next one in because it's cute:

"Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it." - Richard Feynman.

You claiming what I said doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense itself. No it was not the original purpose for to EARN the gift of eternal life. But Adam and Eves failure to be obedient made it to where we have to earn our way to heaven. So what I said does make sense.



No that was no the intent. They were already in the paradise. They failed to be obedient to our father and got us kicked out of heaven, thus why we have to earn our way back in through our obedience. So again yes it makes sense.



No you're just trying to push the blame on someone else. How can it be the creator's fault? People have FREE WILL and can do what they wish. We should use your way of thinking when it comes to the law of the countries. We shouldn't be putting murders, rapists, thieves, ect in prison we should put their parents in prison for making such incompetent people.

So when you say Eastern Mysticism makes the most sense, you actually mean the law of gravity?

OK, I understand your logic now...

No this planet isn't an "experiment" and no one told anyone to mutilate anyone's children.

And to what brought me to reply to this post



If God would have MADE her be obedient, that would not have been her being obedient, that would have been God playing shadow puppets. For HER to be obedient SHE would have to be the one to do it, otherwise again it would be god taking away her free will and playing shadow puppets on the wall. And about Lot, God didn't make him be such a *****. Again with FREE WILL. We make ourselves from what's around us, God doesn't make us who we are less you allow him to do as such.

Racist - If one is racist, this person has either listened to other people to make him that way or has had some problems with people of that race he's being racist against. God didn't make him this way, this is that person's own doing. He's "blaming" The race for certain people's incompetence that he has had in his life. He's stereotyping EVERYONE of this race to be the same as the people of that race he had problems with

That's just one example of God not making us who we are personality wise. But yet us making ourself and allowing things to effect us the way they do. This list could go on and on..

The whole "blame" scenario is the wrong mindset Cowboy.

It's not about blame.

The observation that Dr. Sagan made, and I agree with, is that if we are to accept the Biblical picture of God we have no choice but to accept that God is inept at what he does.

Being inept is just an observation. It's not a 'blame'.