Apparently you don't understand. But I'm not surprised by that at all.

Eastern Mysticism recognizes karma. So yes, in terms of laws similar to physics and mathematics karma is a bit like gravity. That's right.

How is God inept in what he does? The world is created and self sufficient. Plants grow fine, animals grow fine, people grow fine. There is nothing wrong in God's creation. The choices and actions a person does is not created by God but by the person doing the action. Adam and Eve eating of the fruit, which got us kicked out of the garden was their choices, their actions. Those actions were not influenced or created by our father. What inept thing has God done? Please so I can show you that you're just continuing your passing the blame on something else way of thinking.

If God created everything, then God is responsible for all that he has created. Period.

You say, "animals grow fine". I disagree. They don't grow fine at all, they each each. There is nothing "fine" in that my friend.

A God who created a dog-eat-dog world yet apparently doesn't approve of dog-eat-dog behavior is an inept God.

It's pretty simple and straight-forward.

Yes god is responsible for the creation itself. God is not responsible for the creation's creation, as in the creation's actions. Animals do grow fine, they are born, they live their life, they are eat'n or die somewhere their nutrients are absorbed by the earth to replenish the nutrients.

Animals were put here on the earth just for that. For our clothing, for our food, to feed the other animals we use, for farming, for transportation, for any reason one can think of to use an animal. Now that is not "abusing" an animal, but taking care of it and using it for the job it is needed for. God didn't create a dog-eat-dog.

Reminder: Please discuss the topic at hand and not other members. Let's also keep this civil.

Further infractions will incur warnings or suspensions.

Lori
Lead Moderator for Mingle2

Animal rights advocates would disagree with you.

I'm sure my sister would. She's a vegan and doesn't believe in eating flesh.

The other thing I'm curious about too is this:

Are we expected to believe that men like Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Stephen Hawking, Isaac Newton and so on, have all sold their souls to the devil and have knowing-fully rejected their creator and an offer of eternal life in favor of being cast into a lake of fire?

Or were they innocently lead astray and blinded to the truth to the point where they could not make a choice based on truth?

Where's the righteousness in that?

It seems to me that in order to believe in the Biblical picture of God, and specifically in the Christian view of it, we'd either need to believe that all of these famous men knowingly and willfully chose to side with a demon versus a God, or, God is indeed unrighteous by allowing innocent people to be blinded from truth and thus be able to make a decision based on truth.

Personally, neither scenario is believable, IMHO.

Therefore there's no believability in any religion that would dictate such scenarios.

People are only blinded by thier heart. The scriptures does not say the unknowing are condemned.

If that was the case then only 144000 and the great croud we see in Rev 7 would not be cast off.

Man has said that you will be cast out. Thats the problem with man running things he is like satan alot of the time and says worship me.

I believe Isaac Newton Studied scripture constantly but what he saw was different than the ch-rch at that time and he was afraid of being heralded a Heretic and death possibly. But many of his personal writings have come out and he was almost obsessed with Prophecy which he gave some pretty good predictions from what he saw them saying..He was a believer but scared.

Albert Eistien did not declare the Scriptures fantcy. as the others i know little about.

Nostadamus was Jewish before they converted to chr-stianity. He used the Torah to help stop the plague and medicines of herbal types that may of been seen as witchcraft.

It comes back over and over just like Hebrews says..Its man not the Law of the ways for man to learn thats at fault.

Man is a young child.. Most will not put off the childish ways and learn what the scriptures really say.. They are so deep only one man has mastered them.

They are so thought provoking that man can not understand them because he thinks to hard. It can not be he reasons. They have continued and spread throughout the world in many ways. but the basis is in every religion but not the continued scriptures of life.

Thats where they really seperate. At the time of Yahshua. But at his time they were so law abiding leading to a destructive knowledge of no faith or wisdom.

Now we have went the other way and now no Law leads to no reasoning. Just conjecture but thier is a medium but 1st we must learn all thye scriptures as a Whole.. reading them from front to the end several times before we even begin to study and have any thought what they might say.

Since 325ad man has gathered for himself. Do you know what a Jubilee is?

Yahweh is so fair that when the land was devided up he said every 50ieth year a man who has squandered his families possessions will see them come back to him given from the people who bought or took them by another means because Yahweh says each generation should see what his fathers have seen. Thier inheritanmce is not to go to someone else for more than 50 years giving every generation a chance to have a New Beginning.

Wouldn't that be nice. we would not see billionaires inherited.. They would be like every generation and starting with the same.

The University I believe it was of Michigan did a test on fields by the biblical L:and Sabbath of every 7 years the land is not farmed to see what would happen to production and the soil quality.

They were amazed at the different fields.. Ones who rested every 7 years and ones that did not.

Thier findings the Land needs a rest every 7 years.

Results the land that rested the 7th year the next 6 years not only made up in production for the year lost it did not need near the chemicals put on it for weed control.

U know how much crap our farmers put on the corn ect. we eat every year.

In Israel they have strict laws on what a farmer can put on thier crops.. They did not need a colleges study to prove to them about the land sabbath. They just know let it rest and do not put manm,ade chemicals on plants for weed control. man made doctrines.. we know best and its destroying us with sicknesses.

These things I would bet Isaac Newton would be in agreement with how man has went to far with genectic engineering and we are just getting started.

So what about the other laws no pork no mice. We are so crazy when we eat pork it is like cannibalism because our insides are just like them. Men are even refered to in the Scriptures as Swine.

Do a search for the canser rate compared to us in nations that will not eat Pork.

Yahweh says it will be an Abomination to us. Sickness is an Abomination.

These Great men had a vision that can only be brought about by great study and desire to learn thier respective fields.

So why would anyone think they could know anything about the secrets of Yahweh that is thier for all without great desire to learn them and practice them?

Its no different.. You reap what you sew.. Blessings...Miles

There is wisdom in scriptures, this I know.

The 7th year sabbath for land as well as rotation of crops has been given to us many years ago, yet very few take the knowledge to heart.

People will say the ancients were primitive, yet within the last hundred years many of the things that were taught back then now have scientific proof as to their benefits.

You mention pork. It wasn't until the '40s that the dangers of pork were known, and yet it is still consumed by the masses.
Same goes for shellfish. It was a near-death experience from one bite of shrimp that brought me back to the fundemental teachings of the OT. It's been 23 years since I've been sick and I do not think this is a coincidence. Just thought I'd throw that out there, being a "radical" Christian and all...

As god is eternal so also is man.

As heaven is eternal so also is man.

as god is so also is man.

we are made in his image.

Heaven is ours by right. One need not earn it.

It is ours by the image we come from.

Heaven is a gift, a reward. It's not ours by right.

This. We are a part of God as much as God is a part of us.

We are here for a purpose for a reason, to complete the paradox of God. Through us God becomes limited, and experiences everything He cannot as an unlimited being. And we do this willingly out of great love for God. Without us here.....none of this would exist. The good, the bad, all of it. Our relationship with God is codependent, God needs us as much as we need Him.

We don't have to be here, but we choose to be, our spirits willingly do this. And when it's over and our work here is done, we go back to God again from which we came.

It's a beautiful thing really to think about, this relationship between ourselves, creation and the almighty.

I have been reading through your blogs on the scriptures and just wanted to share some things that I have discovered throughout the 20+ years of studying the scriptures.
Keep in mind though; this is just insights into the scripture.
I tell my girls all the time: (Make sure what you believe to be the truth, is the truth , (concerning scripture) beause if what you believe to be the truth isn’t the truth , then its just what you believe.) You are entitled to have your opinion on things, but if your opinion isn’t the truth then you are entitled to keep it to yourself.)If you want to get rid of evil in your life and help other get rid of the evil in their lives , you can only do it with the truth. The example is JESUS. Please keep an open mind and heart when you read through this, I’m not trying to convert anyone (not my job). I like you want to know the truth, so I went back to the original text to find it, and I’m just sharing with you what I discovered.

The Bible is a book about relationship, not religion.
From cover to cover it covers every kind of relationship struggle that you could possibly imagine. Sin was the determining factor that separated mankind from their relationship with GOD, When God looked at what he loved he saw what he hated (sin).

Looking deeper I found that sin not only separated mankind from God , but it also separated them from themselves and others.

I don't know you, but I know that GODS intentions
towards you are good.
(Jeremiah 29:11 )
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you,
saith the LORD, thoughts of peace,
and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Before we get to the present situation I find it paramount that
We cover the past. This is where I lose most
People unfortunately, but I will encourage you to stick
around. For what I'm about to share with you will
change your life. I do realize that most people like to
keep the past, the past, but when you realize that the past
holds in it valuable information that is vital to your
freedom in Christ, your relationship with yourself and with others, then you'll want to uncover as much as possible. There is information in our history that is prevalent to where we are today. The trials and
tribulations we struggle with today are actually revelations of where we've been.

So I will attempt to lead you down a path that will not only bring resolve to your current conflict, but
will bring revelation and understanding to the whole matrix
of things in all of our lives. That when we identify them, and acknowledge them, we find a new freedom in our lives and our relationship with GOD that we always
read about and even dared to hope that he somehow meant it for us.....WELL HE DID....This journey will prove to you that he did. The first thing that we have to do is realize that this journey is a life long one, and we have to remember that GOD in his wisdom has chosen to do it a certain way,and his way is a progressive one.

DEUTERONOMY 7:7-26

7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.
12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
14 Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
15 And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
16 And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.
17 If thou shalt say in thine heart, These nations are more than I; how can I dispossess them?
18 Thou shalt not be afraid of them: but shalt well remember what the LORD thy God did unto Pharaoh, and unto all Egypt;
19 The great temptations which thine eyes saw, and the signs, and the wonders, and the mighty hand, and the stretched out arm, whereby the LORD thy God brought thee out: so shall the LORD thy God do unto all the people of whom thou art afraid.
20 Moreover the LORD thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed.
21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.
22 And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.
23 But the LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed.
24 And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them.
25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.
26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.

Now that we have established that lets not look for a Cure all or a magical wand type of ministry,but rather a relationship with GOD THE FATHER.

You can call it getting to know you.
Getting to know GOD is what life is all about, and we will spend the rest of our lives doing it,both here and in eternity.
So in getting to know GOD it requires getting rid of things that
are keeping us from him, such as sin, sin will separate you from GOD ,
and at the same time it will separate you from yourself and others.
So lets get right to it, shall we.
Before you start this journey I think it's imperative that
you know where this thing that has completely cut you off from GOD came from.
Like most things in life and almost all things in the kingdom of heaven if you go to the root, that tiny little seed that settled in and produced a root, then blossomed into this gigantic tree with more fruit than you could handle.Everything comes from somewhere. What you're going through,what your children are going through, what your friends are going Through, all started somewhere, it didn’t start out as big as it seems at the moment.
Realize that it might not be, and probably isn't as big as it seems either.
Unfortunately we spend most of our time cleaning up the outside.
You know cut the grass, trim the bushes trim the trees, paint the porch
, wash the windows, work out, take a shower comb your hair, and brush your teeth Shave, put on makeup, put on cologne; all these things do wonders for the outside.But what about the inside? Can I come in past the porch? Can I have a real Conversation with you ? Now I'm not talking about the you that you present to everyone, I'm talking about the real you, the secret you. Most of us have done a real good job with 15 min. conversations and some of us even could go for an hour and talk about absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you a question,
Who really knows you?

Your struggles,Your secret things that you hope no-one ever find out?
Because if they did they wouldn’t like you anymore.
Does anyone?
Well I've got some good news for you....
GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU, AND HE'S CRAZY ABOUT YOU!!!!
Why you do what you do?
Why you try to cover-up certain things?
Why you act the way you do?
Why you respond the way you do?

I know that if you read through this portion of blog it will enable you to answer these questions and enhance your relationships on every level.

THE ORIGIN OF SIN


The origin of sin is where it came from so let’s start at the beginning.

GENESIS 3:1
3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

If I were to ask you where sin came from you would probably say ADAM.

Let’s look closer at what we just read. Here we have the transgression of man in regards to his disobedience to what the father had told him. But it this doesn’t tell us where sin started, it only shows us where it was introduced into mankind. In order to find out where it started, we have to go back a little farther, before GOD created man. We find this in the book of EZEKIAL.

EZEKIAL 28:12
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
I want to take a closer look at this and point out a few things.
The word says that lucifer was a created being, it says that he was anointed,and iniquity was found in his heart and he sinned against GOD.

Lets take a look at another passage.

ISAIAH 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Lucifer now known as satan tried to exault himself by invading heaven,but fell, actualy he was thrown out,back to the earth. A third of the angels rebelled with lucifer and were cast to the earth with him
REVELATION 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

GOD judged the earth and the inhabitants of the earth and it became without form and void because of Lucifer’s iniquity, rebellion, and corruption of those that GOD put him over.

GENESIS 1
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
ISAIAH 45
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
2 PETER 3


5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

JEREMIAH 4
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Satan and his rebellious angels were cast out of the third heaven ( where GOD is ), and were cast to the earth.

2CORINTHIANS 12
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

We do not see them in the earth they are not a part of the visible earth and heavens ( the first earth and first heaven )
REVELATION 21
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


They are in another dimension called by inference, the second heaven.
The spirits of the natural inhabitants of the earth that were judged by GOD make up the evil spirits of satans kingdom. These evil spirits are in torment and the only rest they can have is when they reside in us.

LUKE 11
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

HOW SIN ENTERED THE WORLD OF HUMANS THROUGH ADAM AND EVE.

Sin was not in the world at creation. Everything God created, including Adam and Eve, was " very good. "

GENESIS 1:31
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Then we see the events that led up to the introduction of sin, into what God declared good.

GENESIS 3:1 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Using the serpent as a medium, Satan influenced eve, then Adam, to disobey God. Sin entered by one man.

ROMANS 5 : 12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

When sin entered in through the disobedience of man there came with it a whole entourage of manifested personality conflicts that were not a part of the original makeup of man such as,
#1 SHAME
#2 GUILT
#3 FEAR
#4 ACCUSATION
Also we see that mans eyes were opened and they began to see things in a different way, not the way that God had designed them to see, them but through the eyes of sin. Notice this was after sin entered.

GENESIS 3: 6- 24
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden, Cherubims and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep them away from the tree of life.
Also included in the price they paid for their disobedience was the following;
#1TORMENT
#2 BANISHED FROM THE GARDEN
Their relationship with God had changed in the respect that they, instead of being totally reliant upon God and fellowshipping with him and enjoying his provision , had to work for what they received and in order to fellowship with God they had to make atonement for their sin before they could talk to God. All these things came after Adam and eve disobeyed (sinned.) These were not present before they disobeyed. All these things, SHAME, GUILT, FEAR, ACCUSATION, TORMENT, AND SEPERATION all came from Satan and his kingdom.

Access was granted

The evil spirits in the second heaven had now gained access to the first humans in the first heaven, we really want to look closely at this change that happened because then we can see how we can separate the differences. Immediately after Satan and his kingdom gained access into man through his disobedience mans personality changed. The evil spirits began to express their nature through man contrary to the original make of God. SO THE THINGS THAT MAN FOUND HIMSELF DOING WERE CONTRARY TO HIS NATURE.

Go with me to the book of Romans chapter 7, here we find the apostle Paul some 20 years after his conversion on the road to Damascus struggling with a nature that he would realize was not his nature, but was in him.

ROMANS 7:
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
He recognized the conflict within his soul and was in torment over the conflict, but once he discovered the source he immediately separated the manifestation of indwelling sin from who he was in Christ and went after it with truth, and he was able to disassociate himself from the SHAME, GUILT, FEAR , AND TORMENT.
This enabled him to come out from under the deception of sin that it was him,( the deception was that it was him ) and rise up above the sin by the spirit and conquer the sin within by the spirit within that was greater, more powerful than the sin, but it was only after he was able to separate the two that he found victory. In like manner we need to be able to separate the sin we see in ourselves and others so we can like Paul by the spirit rise above the evil that we see in ourselves, and in others, and take back what the enemy has blinded us to, which is our identity. Begin to see yourself as GOD sees you, because that is your true identity.
Dennis

amen!!!

When you speak of truth, who's truth are you speaking about? And what are you calling "truth"?

That's the real question.

Just because you may have accepted the Biblical stories to be "truth" doesn't mean that they are.

That's a matter of "faith" on your part. And if you want to speak of genuine truth then you need to be honest and speak of the fact that your opinions here are indeed nothing more than a reflection of your own personal faith and therefore your own personal beliefs.




That's your opinion. I disagree that it covers every kind of relationship struggle that I can possibly imagine. Moreover, I'm not even impressed by the way some of these stories claim that God handled the specific relationships that are explored in the Bible.



Well, the truth is that you don't know me. And therefore you have no clue what these particular questions mean to me.

In fact, I don't even mind answering some of these questions publicly.

Take your first question for example, "Your secret things that you hope no-one ever find out? Because if they did they wouldn’t like you anymore."

To be perfectly honest with you, I can't imagine why anyone would dislike me if they new all my 'secret things'. Would some of my secret things be potentially socially embarrassing in terms of social conventions? Sure, perhaps they would. But is that reason to dislike me? I think not. Maybe chuckle at the silliness of it all, but certainly not a reason to dislike me.

You say:


Well fine.

If that's true, then God knows that I'm a sincere loving person and that I have legitimate reasons for rejecting the biblical picture of God.

Therefore God knows that, for me, rejecting the Bible and the idea that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb sent by God to pay for the sins of mankind makes absolutely no sense.

Based on what you have just told me then, God knows that my disbelief in the biblical cannon and the Christian religion is totally righteous and just.

God knows that my recognition that Eastern Mysticism is the wisest and most likely spiritual philosophy we currently have, is indeed a wise and totally righteous and just choice on my part.

God knows that my recognition that the traditions of Wicca and Witchcraft are actually more closely aligned to the true nature of God is a totally righteous and just view on my behalf.

God knows that my appreciation and understanding of science as the ultimate "True Word of God", is indeed a totally righteous and just view on my behalf.

God also knows that when I confess, that in terms of spirituality, I must necessarily acknowledge to everyone, including myself and any God that might exist that I am necessarily agnostic (simply meaning without absolute knowledge of this subject). To even pretend to claim otherwise would either be an outright lie, or at the very best a delusion of pretense on my part.

Surely no one would expect me to lie to God by claiming to believe in archaic religions that I sincerely see as brutal, unwise, and riddled with male-chauvinism right up to the very concept of God itself. Why "Our Father"? Why not "Our Mother"?

To be perfectly honest when you ask the questions that you do it only reinforces my belief that the biblical picture of God is false.

Because if God supposedly knows what's in my heart, and in my mind, then God can clearly see why I reject the biblical picture, and God himself/herself/itself, could not possibly think poorly of me for the perspective I have.

On the contrary, I can only imagine a God who would be placing his hand on my shoulder and saying nothing less than "I don't blame you for your views one bit".

Because God would know that through my eyes the Bible is truly pathetic.

So all you're telling me is that God must necessarily appreciate and totally condone my entire view of life and spirituality because he can clearly see that all of my views are indeed righteous, just, and totally sincere and honest.

That's the only possible "truth" that can come from what you've just said.

Truth is a relitive term.. when you decide you have the truth its like thinking you are tougher than anyone else. thiers always someone tougher and thierws always truth to be learned.

self deception the scriptures to speak about in James that looking into a mirror and when we walk away we forget what we saw.. Blessings...Miles

Not particularly true. Only if one becomes prideful for their knowledge does this happen. If one knows the truth why would they not enlighten others of this knowledge? Why would this person not share their knowledge of the truth? Truth is truth bottom line. There's not his truth is different from someone else's truth. 32 degrees F is freezing cold, that's the truth. Some may think 32 is comfortable, some may think 32 is uncomfortable, but nevertheless 32 is freezing and that's the truth no doubt about it. Truth is something that is correct all the time. The scriptures and what is in them has been the same since they were originally written, they have not changed, they are the truth. Different people's thoughts, opinions, or feelings on the truth may differ even down to denying the truth. But nevertheless this doesn't renounce the fact that it's still the truth and can not be proven other wise.

Because its not true.. I can prove you all break the commandments everyday.


But we all learn and when we say we have THE TRUTH we take a chance of decieving ourselves because we do not question if what we know to be true is true or not.

Chr-stian truth is Zues Truth its greek. Period.. You want to know truth will you accept what you are calling the Holy one of Israel continually? If I Prove JC is a Liar will you believe it and never ever have his name on your tongue again?

You want truth then Prove it.. I will.. Shalom....Miles

Go for it, prove Jesus a liar, I wanna see it.

I've read some of this and i understand most of what everybody has replied and posted, but i'm not about to disagree with any of these postings that deal with the Bible. EXCEPT!!!!!! I don't think the English Bible or any other book indicating that God inspired it to be written or guided the hands of those who wrote it or anything coming close to that. I believe that the Bible is just a book ABOUT GOD, not having any input from God in any form to anybody. Thahk you