I want to play a thought game...

Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave.

Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action?

Hell no. I would hunt them down one at a time and take them all out. I would also make damn sure to make them disappear.

That is the easy way. Now the hard way...

Jump them with a band of men and women (since women do make damn good snipers!) and hold a Kangaroo Court and hang them and stake their heads on pikes on the outskirts of town with a sign under their heads warning travelers what we do to criminals like that.

No PC games, no BS, no one arguing their rights. If they are the way you say they are (and I take it you were inspired to ask this by the movie Devil's Rejects) they will be shown the same mercy they have shown others, NONE!

Screw running from a disease like that. Better to fight it!

Would stay there and talk with them about their actions and try to open their eyes to the lord. If those actions only reveal themselves to be pointless, would then move away and give prayers for them.

These aren't the kind of people you could negotiate with, they would kill you the moment you were in their grasp.

Moving away would allow them to continue to murder and rape, do you owe any moral responsibility to mankind to eliminate those sorts of people? The next people to come upon this family (think of them as a family from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre) might be murdered, would that thought bother your conscience?

Devil's Rejects...You know what, I didn't think of that family, but that's a perfect example. People who would laugh at the idea of mercy and actually take joy in the pain of others.

So you believe that it would be better to kill them. You wouldn't feel that they could be redeemed? Should you let God punish them or let God try to reach out to their hearts? Maybe they would change given time. Would that bother you at all, that you killed them and they lost that chance to change and improve themselves?

Your answer reminded of this quote from one of my favorite books...

What would Jesus do?

Anyone have any ideas?

Assume that Jesus has a wife and children in this situation and is living on a farm, with animals, crops, barns, and a nice house that he and his sons, daughters, and wife worked hard to build. The crops are ready to harvest, it's fall, cold weather is setting in.

What do you think Jesus would do in this situation?

Isn't that the question we're often taught to ask?

So what would your answer to that question be?

What would Jesus do?

Then guess they would kill me then. Have no fear of the world, for there is nothing to fear. They may be able to kill this body, but they can not kill my soul.

thats pretty much what Afghanistan is like. and whatll happen to you is probably what happened to them, the bigger guns and better killers own the land. Why do you think we moved in. To kill those peeps and let the people rebuild their once thriving culture.

If I believed in a judgment God who is truly all-wise, omniscient, and genuinely righteous, then why should I believe that killing these men before they have had a 'chance' to repent would place their eternal fate on my shoulders?

If these men had it in them to potentially repent I would trust that God would know that.

In fact, it's this very type of thing that basically makes the idea of having to repent before you die with no chance of redemption after death basically untenable.

Moreover, if this type of thing were true, then anyone who dies and has not yet repented could easily argue a case to God that if they had been giving more time maybe they would have seen the light.

So this type of thinking fails.

This is why an idea of reincarnation with karma makes far more sense. Not only can no one complain that they weren't given enough time to realize the folly of their ways and repent, but ultimately everyone can be given however much time it takes.

I mean, if the only requirement to get into heaven is to eventually repent and it really doesn't matter what you've done before you've repented, then why limit that process to the mere span of a mortal human life. Just take the same principle and apply it to reincarnation, and then no one can complain that they weren't given enough time to repent.

After all, in the scenario you've suggested a lot of criminals who were killed in the midst of their crimes, never lived long enough to repent for what they had done. Yet, criminals who survive their initial crimes might later have remorse.

So it would be a totally unfair (and therefore unjust and unrighteous) to not allow repentance after death.

Clearly that line of thinking cannot be true because it's not righteous and God is supposed to be a righteous God. So that line of thinking doesn't fit in with the idea of a righteous God. Therefore that kind of thinking cannot be of God.

Is there really justified killing? That would be the same as justified thievery, justified raping, justified hurting of another.

Murder is murder, reasons can not justify murder and or "killing" ALL killing of another is murder. We do not have the right to say who lives or who doesn't. We didn't create them nor have anything to do with the creating of them, so why would we have the power to kill something we never created?

EVERYONE and anyone has the chance any day and any time of their life. So you can not say God didn't give them a "chance" to repent, they had their entire life at any moment.

1. I would warn them of their evil ways.
2. I'd have my family behind me, and call upon God if they approached.
3. I would wait for God to destroy them, or deliver me and my loved ones from the evil before me.
4. I would be thankful to know God, and grateful for His deliverances.

amen brother!!

What about your wife and children Cowboy?

Who's going to protect them?

Are you just going to passively stand by whilst these men rape and murder your wife and sons and daughters?

Those people would have their punishment in time. It's not my place to instil the punishment I think they should have. Remember one is not better then the other. Just because this action(s) seems extremely wrong to you, ALL sins are equal, all sins but one are forgiveable. The only sin worse then the others is denying the lord thy God. Besides that ALL sins are just as bad. You steal something, you're no better then a murderer, you treat someone badly, you're no better then a rapist, ect ect. Just because YOU think this action is worse then another doesn't make it so, for it is not. Only YOUR interpretation of the action. I would take the passive route and let the lord sort it out.

Even goes as far as I'm not one to even say they deserve a punishment.

I will just add that God has different judgments for different sins - there are sins for which the sinner must needs be put to death, and there are others that involve restitution etc...sin is sin I agree - there are sins committed in ignorance, sins committed presumptuously...if I was guily of a transgression I would rather it be for theft of food versus killing an innocent person for example

1. I would warn them of their evil ways.

That might be asking for trouble right there. Why bother to confront them at all? Confrontation can only bring attention to yourself, you're "judging" their behavior to be "evil" by confronting them.

As far as 2 thur 4 go I agree. And because of my faith in God I know that these men would not attack my family.

But then Spider does present a deeper question. What do you do if there's a whole town here and you see these men going around raping your and murdering all your friends and neighbors?

Do you just assume that God is protecting you and your neighbors simply must not be "godly" and therefore God is allowing them to be harmed?

Just how far do you take this line of thinking before you are motivated to help protect your community?

In short, when does it become justified to become a policeman, or a soldier?

If you can justify police and support soldiers, then you should be able to become one to protect your loved ones.

Do you think that it's ungodly to become a police officer or a soldier? Do you think that all police officers and soldiers are heathens who are rejecting the teachings of Jesus?

Would you be a "consciousness objector" on religious grounds if your country called you to war?

The following verse tells us straight up one sin is not worse then another. How can one see another persons sin worse then their own?

Matthew 7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Who said anything about "punishment"?

I asked if you would protect your family.

If a rabid bear was about to attack your family and chew them to pieces would you shoot it? If so, would you consider that you have "punished" it? Or did you simply do what needed to be done to protect your family.



Just because you were taught to believe such nonsense doesn't make it rational.