Yes, in the religion chat. LIGHT CHAT ABOUT HEAVY STUFF.
So if you are going to post here there is one rule -

YOU MUST say something nice if you are going to say something you don't like. Purely opinion, may be from some personal experience, but this is GIVE AND TAKE time. Talk about those who don't believe, talk about different faiths, but have something to give back to those who take the time to read your thoughts.

Growing up, I never wanted a world without some kind of religion.
While I didn't understand it all,what or why people believed, I knew enough to see that many people needed their faith. It made them better people. Why did it make them better people? Because they seek to emulate the best qualities that they believe their God endowed them with.

I also really like, that when someone in a religious community is suffering a crisis, others from the community can do something so small as to say a prayer for that person and both will feel better.

I used to envey those people who seemed to be able to deal with EVERYTHING, and they seemed to do this because of their faith.

On the other hand, there are those whose faith is so necessary to the world, that they feel they must evangelize, and what's even worse is they hold their truths to be the one single golden path, and find nothing wrong with telling someone they will go to hell or will never find eternal life, if they do not follow it. These are not the people I envy for their beliefs.

Those I envy, would defend to the death, their loved ones, but would never start the fight, they would defend and even put themselves in harms way, give all they have to a friend in need or give aid and shelter to a stranger, even if none of those in need, believed at they did.

These are gentle people who show others the path they are on, whose belief's shine from them, and seldom have to be spoken and never explained unless asked. Who will discuss with you all night, and in the morning when there are still two sets of opinion, they embrace you and invite you to dinner or to play cards.

Religion does not make bad people, but I do think it helps to make good people even better, it's all a matter of how it is taught, how it is perceived and how it is lived.

you know that no matter how much disagreement we have. you are my friend and i love u Di.

Regards

Miguel

Red, you have a beautiful heart...and the rest of you ain't bad either!

Di

My dream is for everyone to live authentically who they are. Letting go of who they are not to reveal that which they have always been.

I agree that religion can make good people better depending upon the message and the method. Through my clients I know for sure, it can also created unnecessary guilt, self loathing and fear...leading to dis-ease in the body.

I agree with TLW philosophy on this. There is the teaching, there is the questioning, and there is the seeking (to find relevance today).

Like everything it seems to come down to intention and authenticity.

Although I agree or disagree: I will honour everyone's walking of their own path. And I will smile to myself because regardless of how each walks their walk ... they show me - me.

Thank you everyone for the reflections.

A beautiful and thoughtful post Red, as you are your self.

I have been here a long time, since October, which is seen as long time on a dating site. When this particular forum opened up I came in to share my beliefs and found that at that time I was shunned, often being sent emails about how I could save my self from hell. So I stopped posting in here, because my thoughts and feelings were belittled because I didn't follow the Christian path. I still don't follow that path...I simply AM.

I came back here to this forum because I saw for the most part a new group of warm loving individuals, regardless of their paths, sharing thoughts and ideas.Sure there is a disagreement every now and then but for the most part the ones I relate and share with the most are gentle loving humans and listen to my endless questions , they listen to my thoughts and feelings, are considerate of said thoughts and feelings.

I question, seek and learn as a woman who is thirsty for the knowledge that people have to share, I do this because I do not know and I want to know. I do this because of a different path I now walk, because of the newness of it all, I ask,seek and learn with the mind of a child and that is tolerated even embraced at times.

I no longer feel the fear I once did in this forum, I now found acceptance and friends.

awe shucks, you are all too sweet, TLW, Ole Jeb, ArtGurl, Poet, and myself, what a rag tag bunch.

We all follow different paths some of them are colored by our beliefs, which are all quite different. And here, with you all, is the kind of peace that can reign, no matter the opinions in a discussion, no matter the underlying faith.

There have been a few times in the past, when I admitted to some close friends that I was an atheist, that they were shocked. All of them said almost exactly the same thing. "You must mean agnostic?" No, I said, I know the difference. Then I questioned, why does that shock you?

Seems they all held the same ideas, that atheists are self indulging, often hard hearted, unconcerned people who have no values or morals. Obviously, that is not me.

For this reason, atheism has gotten a bad rap. After these discussion I understood why and from that day on I made a decision that I would not hide that fact. I would not flaunt it, but if/when the situation called for it I would bring it up.
It does not take a God based faith to make one a decent human being, and this was what I wanted people to know.

Like anything else, a word can bring a flood of good or bad ideas with it.

As for those who are agnostic - Massage, and I had a great discussion about this as well as the atheistic view. He taught me that there was an error in my thinking, and I have tried to adjust it.

I always thought that those who claimed to be agnostic were actively trying to find, well, call it the truth. But this is not so. It could be that they simply do not know what they believe, and, maybe, at the moment, it does not concern them. I guess because of the way I thought, I use to have such sympathy for those who were agnostic, as I considered them always searching.

In truth, they are just like me. Interested, concerned and ready to try to understand everyone's theology.

For them, they are looking for something that, either strikes that chord for them, or for a piece of information that they will store for future use.

For me, I am just interested in understanding people, knowing them. To me it's a way to 'get along' to determine what affects a person, how they might react, how not to hurt them, or how best to protect them.

So those who consider themselves agnostic can also have high values and morals, and can still show interest as atheists can, and like every other human, they can also have moments where frustration gets the better of them, and it comes out in harsh words.

Hopefully, this will be at a time when others are not so frustrated, and can find a way to deal with the unintentional wounds that may have been inflicted.

So many great teachers, so many great lessons ---- Kinda' makes me feel like that Lucky Dog dog food commercial - Bouncing around on two legs instead of four - Lucky Wench, Lucky Wench, I'm such a lucky Wench!!!!

Many years ago, I had a very dear friend who was a Jehovah Witness. She was very much a faithful follower. She was also not one to flaunt it. At work others thought she was cold, had a bad attitude, over all, just did not WANT to play well with others.

Of course, being who I am, I could not accept that, so I got to know her. I found out about her faith, and we talked about it at length. Back then, it was often considered a cult. We talked about this too. She taught me much about her belief's, without ever expecting me to believe.

Once I understood, I quietly explained, as situations arose, to those in our department why she was acting this way, and within a few months, she blossomed, because others finally understood her. Not only that, but they all became more aware and were always sure to find someway to include her, without offending her faith. This was great, because she was a beautiful loving person and she was able to form many wonderful friendships.

Sometimes, understanding one's belief's are the best way to get to know them. Especially those belief's that we already have some preconceived notions about.

Anyone have other good and bad or just good about experiences with other faiths or cults?

DKW - the time delay thing got me again, I just saw your post.

you made me think of you jumping up and down sounding like the lion in the Wizard of OZ saying "I am a lucky Wench, oh I am a lucky Wench." You are just crazy, but crazy in a good way, you make others have fun.

I was invited to a Lakota (Sioux) Sun Dance Ceremony last year. I found it really interesting. I had preconceived notions about Natives and the actual ceremony. I learned a lot about participating in group collective thought and energy: why such a thing would be necessary or used. I also went expecting this group of people to be exactly as I had read. Major reality check there too. The ceremony is for people to either thank the creator for the help given to them in some type of healing of another or themselves or for people praying for that which has not yet manifested and they've given their word to dance (four days in increments on and off throughout each day fasting the entire time) to show their "intent" (there is a stronger word to describe this, but it escapes my mind at this moment).

DKW - that is not even a once in a lifetime experience, most of us will never have that. How fortunate for you.

Did this experience in any way affect your thoughts on "community"? I mean, did you walk away from it trying to imagine a whole society who could DO ANYTHING TOGETHER, with the same idea for four days?

My parents closes friends were Jewish, of course us kids grew up together, still stay in touch. There are many wonderful qualities to their faith, but among those that affected me the most was the way they handled funerals. If only all of society could be of that mindset, the grief could be poured out, without haste, without strength, for the support and the love would be there, and would continue more easily throughout society.

Actually, fitting into society as I knew it when I came back was kind of strange. Also, I absolutely understood the fear the US government had regarding the Ghost Dance and why they banned it.

I love you guys. Di, Chubby, Artgurl. Love you ,love you, love you.

I haven't always been this way. I was terribly injust towards things I did not understand. Religions, believers of this or that. Non belivers as well. I was a confused little girl. I used to call myself an atheist. Red said it best.

I now love all people of every kind, every faith, every walk of life. I accept all who are kind, not so kind, and those that just want to BE.

I come here in spurts. When it feels like it is getting out of hand, I take a break. Still feeling a little weak in my own self. But, I am here for not just myself, but all who wish to learn, or teach.

This is a great place to know the trueness of others.

Kat

oops: *unjust.

Wench, without going into the reasons why, I will say that I believe that there is power or strength that can actually be directed, when minds are linked and focused on the same thought or target or idea. Guess the chiche' power of positive thought, is the best way to put it.

When others say they will pray for me, I'm genuinely grateful, because to me, there is power in prayer, because to me, it translated to that positive power of thought.

I guess this is another good thing about religions, their prayers.

Gotta agree with ya there Red.

Red, I agree with you on the power of the mind, minds.(prayer) I believe in numbers it works best. I have seen this truth for myself.

As I have said before, I do not know if I am religious, or a Christian. I just am. But for me, there is God of all. I also know that those that do not have my belief for the most part, take me as I am and know me to be a friend in spite of our differences.

That is the beauty of learning of those around us and taking the differences and building from them. I have had much growth, I must say; from being a part of these forums.
Kat

Not only me: But, I have seen the same growth from many, the community, and these religion threads.
Kat