wrinkles...on my butt...

Okay, thanks for elaborating on that. As a single man, I personally wouldn't say I'm fearful exactly. Like others I may be a little frustrated because I was raised old school yet I'm dealing with modern attitudes. A modern woman wants her independence. She can bring home her own bacon. She doesn't want to need me, she wants to want a man instead.
Being a bread winner isn't that big of a deal these days. In some ways, maybe I'm the metaphorical son who's paying the dues for his metaphorical father.
It's a crazy brave new world, I reckon. One where "need" is a negative connotation since it infers a lack of choice.
Women say "I don't need a man, but I want one". It seems a radical change to me and the pressure's on if I hope to compete for a woman's affections and fealty simply on the basis of my ability to effectively provide.
I get this...
I'm not studied on the matter, but I'm aware enough to recognize that things have indeed changed radically.
I also recognize and agree that everything changes. Beyond just being true to myself, I admit that I'm somewhat stumped in regard to how to go about being desirable for desire's sake. It seems that comparatively speaking, old dad had it pretty easy since all he needed was the ability to provide the means of survival for a woman to consider him a prospect. I get all this and like it or not, it's the world that I must live in.
I can only hope that for the sake of my own metaphorical son, women get this too and will teach their sons how to be this desirable man they crave. I sure don't know how to teach him.
"Work hard, provide well, be protective, and be a good leader" is what I was taught.
My own humble feeling is Lord help us all if everything changes back to a world where a "liberated" woman can't compete on the same level anymore...
Maybe after all, I AM fearful...

I highly doubt that assertion...

Eeeeee scary phycological disorder, control freak much???

Although she may be onto something with the forehead/wrinkly thang

Oooo Shar-pei butt...niiiice

How does anyone eaven fined out about but wrinkles,lmao Im invisioning a very ocquard upside down pose infront of a large Vanity Mirror

What of all the women friends and acquaintances you have here, aren't they evidence that that type of woman exists?
One or two may have a priority towards babies and booze, for the most part- all I've read is some very well written threads, ideas and responses by alot of very intelligent women. What you have in these forums is actually a true sampling of what is out there in the real world. Women today had to change everything from their mothers day and now are forced to be a partner breadwinner and still, by alot of society and family values, are still stuck in the role of mother and housekeeper.

Well thanks.
That image now replaces the shar-pei one.

OK - curiosity just got the best of me - so far I'm safe!!!!!!!

LMAO, aparently Loy has a large Vanity also.

Not strictly "evidence," no. Evidence would require a certain degree of substantiation, and this is impossible to do on the internet.

To put it another way, assertions are assertions, they are not evidence. I'm not saying anyone here I consider a friend is being in any way misleading or dishonest; I'm just saying there is no real way for me to know.

At any rate, I don't even think that a full-scale acceptance of all of the assertions would prove that "that type of woman exists" -- because none of my friends here (as far as I've been able to discern) are "that type of woman" to begin with. Add in the inevitable distance factor, etc., and the root problem remains unaddressed.



I'm not denying that -- there are some truly brilliant women here, and many of them are gifted writers. That holds true regardless of what their priorities are (or aren't). It doesn't change the fact that most, if not all, of them have kids and drink.




That's the part that concerns me. Because if that's true, I'm pretty much up the creek when it comes to future relationships. I have some theories about the differences between people who are on dating sites vs. people who aren't, but the theories are as yet unproven.



I understand that, but I'm not the one pushing those roles on them. And, to be honest, for as much as some women seem to like to complain about being relegated to those roles, just try to find one who isn't trying to get there (or who isn't already there). I certainly can't.

I was gonna say that about self-delusions. Now, If I would start posting smileys all day when I'm "dissappointed" due to a certain person crossing my path (like this wrinkle-maniac), the people who know me better would know anyway that just not me. That's one thing.

The other thing is..somewhere I mentioned before, that this is hardly about being negative..but usually when I go through a disappointing encounter with someone. While some surpress their negative thoughts, regardless of what it is, let it be relationships or other things in a daily life..I disagree with that. Get it out of your system. The best thing you could do with it is to discuss it and perhaps just get a confirmation, that there are (still) others out there, who thinks differently.

More on this, as I was thinking..somehow I always disagreed with the supposedly "self esteem"- "ego boost" recommendations such as

-Always smile
-Be happy
-Don't sweat the small stuff
-Be positive

I'm not saying, that these things are not good. No, what i'm saying, that it can become like an epidemic, when true feelings, honesty and expression become surpressed after a while, once these things are not used as a guideline anymore, but more like commands.

Homicidial maniacs made that way. How many times have you read the news, when they say someone went on a rampage, "even his co-workers were surprised, because he was a calm one, who never complained and seemed-to be a happy person".

Now, that's an extreme example I know, but really...what I would teach is something different

-Say what you gotta say
-Be honest and tell what you think is wrong
-Talk to someone if something bothers you
-Voice your opinion, even if you think it's bad
-If you feel pressured, let it out

Aren't those just a lot better instead of trying to force this smiley-mask happy costume on everyone, and tell them how to act and feel even though they don't feel that way and just swallow back their opinion, because it might make others feel bad or hurt the "group image" so it's not as appealing anymore?

At this point, all I see is dancing. You simply DO NOT want a relationship and continue to belittle women, insisting we are out to change you/get you/turn you in a different direction.. As I said a month or so back, we keep searching for the same people until we work on ourselves; discover what it is in yourself that actually attracts you to them.
Most women I've encountered in life, from dear frinds, family, co-workers and acquaintances simply do not have the time nor the interest in changing anyone except themselves. (diet, hair, exercise, mind, spirituality, etc). And when a woman does say something to you about something, more than likely her only goal in mind is to make you look better, not change you into her little Ken doll. You guys out there really crack me up when I see the occasional statement like you make. Honestly, whose got the time to work on another, we're just hoping that your sensitive to our needs and wants as we are to yours. them. We got alot more responsibilty in this world, beleive me, then men do- now that the tide is going out, it's still the same. Personally, I think you guys are waiting to be rescued...and dost protest too much.
I also feel for you because with the blinders you may certainly miss out on one of the worlds most beautiful mysteries, that is to love and non judge your life partner (or anyone esle for that matter) by something they say to you out of concern or love.
I'm done, no more of this thread for me.

HAHA THAT IS FUNNY!!! Do you really think she means to be that critical of you? Or was she just having this mad crush and telling you what she don't like? LOL I think your response is great and she was probably thinking something like...AND THEY SAY WOMEN ARE CRAZY!! All I can say to you is, be yourself and keep your great personality...I am sure that "she" is out there somewhere!!!
Good Luck

Sure, because you've decided that's all you want to see. As often happens with a lot of people, when I express myself openly, you've taken my words and somehow decided to apply them personally or generally so as to give you some sort of legitimate grounds for taking offense. Of course, it's your right to make that decision; I just wish you (and others) would try to understand what I'm saying rather than succumb to a reflexive, knee-jerk reaction.



Absolutely untrue. I want a relationship; I just want it to be a certain KIND of relationship with a certain type of person. Maybe that can't exist, I don't know -- but is it possible to want something that doesn't exist? I think it is.



You obviously have not been reading what I've been writing. Most of my friends on here are women. Most of my friends since I've been about 15 have been women. I love women. The only ones I'm "belittling" are the ones in my past who lied to me and tried to change me into someone else, and the nebulous future prospects of same.



That has been my experience. Would you like me to pretend otherwise?



OK, so we've had different experiences with these matters. I don't think that invalidates either perspective.

Most of the women I've been involved with have been OBSESSED with changing me into the cardboard cutout of Ward Cleaver. When I was married, I suggested to my wife that we get a parrot that could be taught to say "We should start a family" so she could stop saying it 50 times a day. She thought that was funny.



Wrong, wrong, wrong. Why are you telling me what she's trying to do when you weren't even there? They never try to change my clothes, my looks, my hair, whatever -- the ONLY think they want is for me to play daddy. I make it clear from Day One that I have no interest in, nor aptitude for, playing daddy. They say, "Oh, that's good, I don't want kids either" until 3 months later when the truth comes out.



When the only need I ever hear about is "I need a bay-bee!" and that's not in my plans, we've got an issue.

Other than that -- I can't even tell you the number of times I've met a woman, sat down with her and talked, extensively, and she has said to me "You know, you're the first guy who ever really took the time to listen to me and hear what I have to say." I enjoy that, actually, the whole process of learning about someone new, about her life and her history and her hopes and all of that.

But it doesn't work the other way around at all -- you mention "we're just hoping that your sensitive to our needs and wants as we are to yours." I can't even begin to fathom this idea. I've only had one relationship where she was sensitive to my needs at all, and that was on a very limited, short-term basis.



Frankly, to me it looks more like something I said got under your skin and you felt the need to snipe. And that's fine, I can take it, but just realize that when you go after someone based on your own experiences, which have nothing to do with mine, and nothing to do with the points I'm trying to make, it does come across as a little defensive.

...i think some of you people just need to get LAID.....

this is true

Yes, and I agree with almost everything you've written here. While in a forum like this, it can be very healthy to let out how you are feeling, you're among people that have gotten to know you a little and visa versa. I do have a problem when people have become verbally aggressive, while I maintain that am working on being more assertive here it can hurt another and am not sure why. Redundancy also seems to entertain people too but thats a whole nother matter<G>. I didn't know you were making light of the woman's constructive criticism until you said so. My apologies for offending anyone.
I do believe in voicing how you are feeling and thinking (pretty obvious here at times) but quite a few people don't know how to take such releases, and will get defensive.