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Topic: Blacks start riot over transit killing.
Thomas3474's photo
Fri 07/09/10 11:32 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100710/ap_on_re_us/us_train_station_shooting

SAN FRANCISCO – The involuntary manslaughter conviction of a white former transit officer in the death of an unarmed black man set the stage for a sentencing that could be just as explosive as the trial depending on how the judge interprets the verdict.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Robert Perry has a tremendous amount of discretion in handing down punishment Aug. 6 against Johannes Mehserle — anywhere from probation to 14 years.

A sentence on the low end could further inflame tensions among the hundreds of angry people who took to the streets of Oakland Thursday over what they believe should have been a murder conviction.

Those protesters could find some satisfaction in the way Perry decides to apply a finding by the jury that Mehserle used a gun to commit the crime.

Involuntary manslaughter convictions call for two to four years in prison, but Perry could tack on an additional three to 10 years due to the gun enhancement.

"I think he could get substantial time, by that I mean like six years," said John Barnett, a defense attorney from Orange County who represented one of four Los Angeles police officers acquitted of beating Rodney King in 1992. "There is going to be a lot of pressure to give him state prison."

In a handwritten letter released Friday, Mehserle suggested a possible prison term wouldn't be his only punishment for killing 22-year-old Oscar Grant.

He said he will forever "live, breathe, sleep and not sleep" with the memory of Grant dying on the train platform and "knowing that Mr. Grant should not have been shot."

Mehserle, 28, testified during his trial that he struggled with Grant and saw him digging in his pocket as officers responded to reports of a fight at a train station.

Fearing Grant may have a weapon, Mehserle said he decided to shock Grant with his Taser but mistakenly pulled his .40-caliber handgun. Grant was shot as he lay face-down.

Prosecutors wanted Johannes Mehserle convicted of murdering Grant.

Instead, jurors decided Mehserle didn't mean to kill Grant, but his behavior was still so negligent that it was criminal.

The judge has the option of tossing out the gun enhancement, though experts say that seems unlikely because of Perry's no-nonsense reputation on the bench.

Legal experts also said a sentence of probation appears remote, especially since Mehserle was taken into custody immediately after the verdict and booked into the Los Angeles County Men's Central Jail, where he will be kept apart from the general population.

"It is probably politically difficult to give him probation," Santa Clara University law professor Edward Steinman said.

Mehserle was arrested two weeks after the shooting and has remained free after posting $3 million bail in February 2009, meaning he would have no credit for time served if he is sentenced to prison.

Some experts doubt that Mehserle will receive the maximum sentence and question whether an on-duty police officer should be punished with additional state prison time for using a service weapon.

The gun enhancement law was passed to additionally punish armed muggers, robbers and other criminals for endangering lives during their crimes.

Using it in a shooting death that resulted in an involuntary manslaughter conviction is redundant and illogical, said Stanford University law professor Robert Weisberg.

"There is a real ambiguity here," Weisberg said. "This is an odd application of the statute."

Mehserle could be facing more than state prison time if a civil rights investigation planned by the U.S. Justice Department leads to charges and a federal conviction.

In a move reminiscent of the Rodney King beating case in Los Angeles, federal authorities said they will investigate the shooting.

Federal officials stepped into the King case after a state court jury acquitted four Los Angeles police officers in 1992 of using excessive force, touching off three days of riots, 53 deaths and more than $1 billion in damage.

The two officers convicted of federal civil rights violations in the King beating were each sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison. A federal jury acquitted the two other officers.

The verdict against Mehserle enflamed emotions in Oakland, where 30 businesses were damaged and 78 people were arrested for violations that included failure to disperse, vandalism and assaulting a police officer.

Protesters looted an athletic footwear store and ransacked a jewelry shop. The windows of a bank were smashed, fires were set fires in several trash bins, and a small incendiary device was detonated near a police station but caused no damage.

The trial of Mehserle, who resigned from the Bay Area Rapid Transit agency after the shooting, was moved to Los Angeles following rioting in Oakland after Grant was killed. The latest demonstrations appeared to be much less severe, even though police did not immediately release a damage estimate.

In Washington state, vandals smashed the windows of a patrol car parked outside a Tacoma police officer's home and spray-painted the words "Oscar Grant was here" on the car.

University of California, Berkeley law school professor Erin Murphy said she could understand the outrage of the community, but the verdict seemed a reasonable conclusion to the trial.

"I think the prosecution from the beginning had a major hurdle," Murphy aid. "Why would a police officer execute someone in public in front of everyone?"

Lpdon's photo
Sun 07/11/10 01:19 PM
The only reason he was unjustly charged was because of the rioting after it happened. By no means am I racist but it seem's when black people don't get their way they like to riot. This, Rodney King, the other LA riots.......

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/11/10 02:24 PM
Edited by msharmony on Sun 07/11/10 02:25 PM

The only reason he was unjustly charged was because of the rioting after it happened. By no means am I racist but it seem's when black people don't get their way they like to riot. This, Rodney King, the other LA riots.......




unlike other races?

america has not had a long history of black people 'getting their way',,,I would expect MANY more riots than the isolated incidents people refer to,,,,

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 07/11/10 02:46 PM
I hope this thug in blue gets what he deserves-lethal injection.

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/11/10 02:53 PM
I hope that the killing stops,,,,,that suspect was someones child, but so is the cop,,,

ValentinaSS's photo
Sun 07/11/10 03:11 PM
I`ll never understand why people can`t (won`t) show restraint when they feel a great wrong has been done. Causing destruction in your own community hurts all the wrong people. A costly, useless act that does not help your cause.

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/11/10 03:15 PM

I`ll never understand why people can`t (won`t) show restraint when they feel a great wrong has been done. Causing destruction in your own community hurts all the wrong people. A costly, useless act that does not help your cause.



absolutely, we are a culture that has been too exposed and desensitized to violence,,,,,and it is trickling down to the kids

Peccy's photo
Sun 07/11/10 03:21 PM


I`ll never understand why people can`t (won`t) show restraint when they feel a great wrong has been done. Causing destruction in your own community hurts all the wrong people. A costly, useless act that does not help your cause.



absolutely, we are a culture that has been too exposed and desensitized to violence,,,,,and it is trickling down to the kids
trickling? More like flooding.....

FearandLoathing's photo
Sun 07/11/10 03:54 PM
I'm actually happy about how this is turning out. By no means does the officer deserve a murder charge and I do kind of believe his story of thinking he was grabbing a taser (although still question it due to weight differences between the two). Officials seem to be investigating it very well also.

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 07/11/10 04:11 PM

I`ll never understand why people can`t (won`t) show restraint when they feel a great wrong has been done. Causing destruction in your own community hurts all the wrong people. A costly, useless act that does not help your cause.


It has to do with the "Tragedy of the commons" effect of public property like roads as well as the psychology of crowds (in my experience).

no photo
Sun 07/11/10 04:14 PM
It still amazes me how popular public lynchings remain when it's the 'right' people being lynched ...

Lpdon's photo
Sun 07/11/10 05:59 PM

I hope that the killing stops,,,,,that suspect was someones child, but so is the cop,,,


He was also a gang member and career criminal. One less dirtbag off the street.

JustAGuy2112's photo
Sun 07/11/10 09:51 PM
Wasn't it a bunch of " Anarchists " from out of town that actually incited the rioting?

Take a close look, if you can find video, and you'll see quite a few spray painted " slogans " like....

" Oakland is our amusement park tonight "

and

" Riot for Oscar "

Granted, the " black folks " were pissed...and rightfully so as far as I am concerned.

But it's kinda sad that they are getting all the negative press about the rioting when it was more the result of instigation done by a bunch of white kids in masks who didn't even live in Oakland.

msharmony's photo
Mon 07/12/10 01:01 AM
Edited by msharmony on Mon 07/12/10 01:01 AM


I hope that the killing stops,,,,,that suspect was someones child, but so is the cop,,,


He was also a gang member and career criminal. One less dirtbag off the street.




what were his crimes? where is the evidence?

while we are at it,, where is the evidence regarding the PAST of the person who took someones life,,,,the officer?

disciplinary records?

this man was someones father, someones son,,,and barring him taking someones life,,didnt deserve to be shot in his back like an animal....

I try to believe it was a mistake, but then people make statements like the above and Im back to wondering,,,

no photo
Mon 07/12/10 02:15 AM

Wasn't it a bunch of " Anarchists " from out of town that actually incited the rioting?

Take a close look, if you can find video, and you'll see quite a few spray painted " slogans " like....
...
Granted, the " black folks " were pissed...and rightfully so as far as I am concerned.

But it's kinda sad that they are getting all the negative press about the rioting when it was more the result of instigation done by a bunch of white kids in masks who didn't even live in Oakland.


I'll second this. I live in south berkeley, about 1/2 mile from oakland. We've had a few small riots at other protests (like protest over cuts in education), and we do have anarchists from out of town who incite riots. We also have ardent environmentalists and anti-capitalists that will try to incite riots at every opportunity. When I heard about riots down the street, I suspected that they didn't originate from the black community but from the other activist communities.

Peccy's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:09 AM
Edited by Peccy on Mon 07/12/10 07:10 AM
I believe the officer made a mistake. When you are doing something in the heat of the moment, you don't stop and think, "Hey this feels heavier, this isn't my taser." Hesitation like that will cost you your life. Anyone who has any real combat under their belt knows that. Instead it seems like the "arm chair" jury thinks they can analyze this and put it into a perspective that fits their neat little world. Not possible people.

Lpdon's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:42 AM



I hope that the killing stops,,,,,that suspect was someones child, but so is the cop,,,


He was also a gang member and career criminal. One less dirtbag off the street.




what were his crimes? where is the evidence?

while we are at it,, where is the evidence regarding the PAST of the person who took someones life,,,,the officer?

disciplinary records?

this man was someones father, someones son,,,and barring him taking someones life,,didnt deserve to be shot in his back like an animal....

I try to believe it was a mistake, but then people make statements like the above and Im back to wondering,,,


Grants records have been all over the media. The officer had a perfect record, never had a write up or even a complaint.

Lpdon's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:43 AM

I'm actually happy about how this is turning out. By no means does the officer deserve a murder charge and I do kind of believe his story of thinking he was grabbing a taser (although still question it due to weight differences between the two). Officials seem to be investigating it very well also.


Holy $hit, you and I actually agree on something? I need to sit down. drinker

Lpdon's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:47 AM
Judge Robert Perry granted Rains' motion to introduce evidence of an incident in San Leandro in October 2006. At that time, Grant was stopped by police officers who spotted him sitting in a car with a gun. According to police, Grant threw the gun and tried to run away. He eventually had to be Tasered and was kicked several times by officers before finally being arrested. Perry will allow the evidence about Grant's resistance, without any mention of the loaded weapon he had been carrying.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7428841

Looks like he has a history of resisting too.........

Lpdon's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:59 AM
Grant served two state prison terms for various felonies including a conviction for drug dealing. In 2007 he was sentenced to 16 months in state prison for fleeing "from a traffic stop while armed with a loaded pistol". During that incident, near his Hayward home, San Leandro police shot him with a Taser to subdue him after he threw the pistol into the air and ran. The arresting officers testified that even after being Tased, Grant "continued to resist efforts of the officers to handcuff him".

In the motion for bail, Mehserle's attorney, Michael Rains, stated that toxicology testing of Grant's blood revealed the presence of alcohol (0.02%) and Fentanyl, a strong narcotic pain reliever. The coroner's bureau said the pathologist's autopsy protocol would be finalized in March 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant#Background

He has a pretty lengthy history. Oscar Grant was a very violent man. Plus I wonder how he got Fentanyl, that is the stuff that they give you with Verced to put you in lala land before surgury and it is hard as hell to get a doctor to prescribe it, hell after one of my back procedures they gave me 7 Fentanyl patches and that was after a surgury and wouldn't provide anymore after that.

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