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Topic: My name is Sancho. I'm here to pick up my legal ID
willing2's photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:38 AM
Edited by willing2 on Mon 05/17/10 07:44 AM
Sancho Gordo,"I don't got no pinche papers. You can trust me to tell you who I am."

ID issuing agent," It's ok Mr, excuse me, Senior Gordo. Just put your X here and we'll get your ID ready."



TRENTON, N.J. — Since moving to this city from her native Guatemala a decade ago, Herlinda, an illegal immigrant, has supported her family with restaurant work, but has had no way of proving that she lives here. Without government-issued photo identification, like a driver’s license or a passport, she said, she could not get treatment at most medical clinics, borrow a book from the library, pick up a package from a mail center or cash a check.

But this month she discovered a solution: a community identification card issued by a coalition of civic groups and endorsed by Trenton and Mercer County officials.

“When you don’t have a proper ID, they can humiliate you,” said Herlinda, 43, as she waited in the offices of a church where the cards were being issued. “I feel I belong in Trenton.”

As a new law in Arizona makes the failure to carry immigration documents a crime and spurs similar proposals in other states, Trenton is one of a small but growing number of municipalities that have moved in the opposite direction — making sure that illegal immigrants have documents to make their lives easier.

At least six city governments, including San Francisco and New Haven, now endorse or issue photo identification cards to residents. The latest is Princeton, N.J., where advocates for immigrants, with the consent of both the borough and the township, will begin issuing cards on May 22; other New Jersey communities have also expressed interest. Oakland, Calif., has approved a program but has not yet started issuing cards.

In one sense, these liberal cities and Arizona’s conservative lawmakers are working toward the same thing, said Maria Juega, treasurer of the Latin American Legal Defense and Education Fund, an advocacy group that spearheaded the ID programs in Trenton and Princeton. Both camps, she said, are trying to fill the void created by Congress’s failure to fix a flawed immigration system.

“These are reactions,” Ms. Juega said. “We’ve had these gaping holes that everybody’s been talking about for two decades and done nothing about. Everybody’s scrambling.”

Calls for a nationally mandated identification card have been made for decades, particularly after 9/11, but they received a push late last month when a group of Democratic senators unveiled a blueprint for comprehensive immigration reform. The plan includes a proposal to require all workers, including citizens, to show potential employers a card with biometric data, like fingerprints — a measure meant to prevent illegal immigrants from working.

The local identity cards do not grant legal residency or the right to work. They are intended to fold illegal immigrants into the fabric of the community by giving them entree to services and places that require some sort of recognized identification. In Trenton, immigrants can use their cards to access libraries, medical centers and doctors’ offices; seek help from charitable organizations and private social service agencies; and use the city’s public recreation centers and pools.

In addition, law enforcement officials say, the cards give illegal immigrants who fear detection and deportation more confidence about reporting crimes, and allow officials to help immigrants who are crime victims.

“I believe that people who are here in America must be safe and must be healthy,” said Eve Sanchez Silver, the community and Latino liaison for Asbury Park, N.J., where a city-endorsed identity card program for illegal immigrants began in 2008. “If they’re not safe, we’re not going to be safe. If they’re not going to be healthy, we’re not going to be healthy.”

While the programs in Trenton, Princeton and Asbury Park are endorsed by local law enforcement officials but administered by community organizations, New Haven and San Francisco themselves issue identity cards. The cards allow access to even more services, including opening bank accounts. This allows immigrants to deposit their pay checks, rather than carrying large amounts of cash that make them prey for thieves.

To keep the cards from becoming “scarlet letters” that mark illegal immigrants, they are offered to all residents, though they are mainly used by immigrants and the homeless.

A few states, including New Mexico and Washington, allow illegal immigrants to obtain driver’s licenses, but the number has fallen as more states require proof of lawful presence in the country.

Ira Mehlman, spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which opposes illegal immigrants and proposals to give them legal status, described the local ID card programs as “attempts by the leadership of those communities to thwart enforcement of U.S. immigration laws.”

He added, “It encourages people to stay in those communities, when in fact the policies ought to be discouraging those people.”

But Ms. Juega said she and her fellow advocates in Trenton were motivated by a desire to “allow this population that is increasingly marginalized to have some semblance of a normal life.”

About 23 percent of Trenton’s 83,000 residents are immigrants, mostly Latinos, according to the 2008 American Community Survey. Many do not have legal immigration documents, advocates say.

Trenton’s ID program, which began in May 2009, met with minimal resistance among city officials, said Detective Bob Russo of the Office of Community Affairs in the Trenton Police Department, who has been a major proponent. “I’ve had a few colleagues who were against it,” he said. “But we stressed that you’re not giving this person any pass or anything like that, you’re just accepting that person as a member of the community.” City and police officials are under orders not to ask residents about their immigration status, unless it is in connection with a felony.

Still, only about 1,300 people in Trenton have stepped forward to get the cards. Some immigrants have been wary, despite promises that the information they provided would remain confidential.

Two days after New Haven lawmakers approved the nation’s first plan to offer cards in 2007, federal agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement began a series of arrests in the area that sent 32 immigrants to detention centers around New England — a move that the mayor, John DeStefano Jr., described as retaliation. By the time city officials issued the first IDs, called Elm City Resident Cards, many residents were afraid to come forward.

Some other communities waited to see if there were legal challenges to the New Haven program, but none surfaced. Opponents of the program filed suit seeking the participants’ names and addresses. The city’s refusal was upheld by the state, said Michael J. Wishnie, a Yale law professor who helped develop the program and was retained by the city to help defend it in the event of lawsuits.

Like most community identification cards, the cards in Trenton have no currency outside the city. Detective Russo said that some police departments in neighboring communities had confiscated them, thinking they were fake.

Yet organizers say their program has been a success, drawing interest from other municipalities and praise from charitable agencies around the city. The Rev. Jarrett Kerbel, director of the Crisis Ministry of Princeton and Trenton, which runs a food pantry, said a growing number of clients were using the cards to receive services.

Mario, 26, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala, said he used the card to collect his paychecks at the commercial cleaning company where he works, and to enter the guarded buildings he cleans. Last week, he accompanied his friend Augustin, 19, to St. Stanislaus Roman Catholic Church in Trenton, where advocates issue the documents one evening each week. Augustin, a baby-faced immigrant from Mexico, said finding an employer prepared to hire him had not been a problem — the trouble was proving he was not under age.

As Augustin registered for a card, Mario revealed that his had been useful in some unexpected ways.

Early one recent morning as he was driving to work, he was pulled over by a Trenton police officer for driving with a broken tail light. The officer, he said, asked for his insurance card and registration as well as his driver’s license. While Mario had the car documents, he had no license; instead, he offered his local identity card.

The police officer, Mario said, let him go with a warning about the tail light. There was no mention of the lack of a driver’s license, a punishable offense.


Mario, an observant Catholic, smiled as he recalled his stroke of good fortune. “La obra de Dios,” he said. “The work of God.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/nyregion/17idcard.html?pagewan ted=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

If they know these people are here illegally, why are they not being dealt with and deported?

franshade's photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:41 AM
hello Sancho how are you :wink:

msharmony's photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:43 AM
I dont get it either,,,,,they have ALWAYS asked me for a drivers license...

amazing

willing2's photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:45 AM
Edited by willing2 on Mon 05/17/10 07:59 AM

hello Sancho how are you :wink:


Mejor ahora, Mi amor.

Como se fue?

Can't wait for Christmas to get here again and you get all dressed up!drool

Got anything you can show for the beach??:angel:

no photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:52 AM
It's heartwarming, 'people'-oriented stories like this one that make me realize what a warm, giving people we are ... I'm all full of 'warm fuzziness' now ... I think I might go hug a tree to celebrate ... I could even buy a Compact Fluorescent Bulb while I'm in this good a mood ... O joy! We truly ARE 'The Beacon On The Hill' ... !

franshade's photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:55 AM


hello Sancho how are you :wink:


Mejor ahora, Mi amor.

Como se fue?


Willing - chulo!!!! :heart:

msharmony's photo
Mon 05/17/10 07:59 AM
Edited by msharmony on Mon 05/17/10 08:02 AM

It's heartwarming, 'people'-oriented stories like this one that make me realize what a warm, giving people we are ... I'm all full of 'warm fuzziness' now ... I think I might go hug a tree to celebrate ... I could even buy a Compact Fluorescent Bulb while I'm in this good a mood ... O joy! We truly ARE 'The Beacon On The Hill' ... !



reminds me of what my mom told me about littering when I was younger,,,,doesnt seem like much to just throw a bottle on the ground,,,but if one person is allowed everyone starts feeling like they should be allowed, and then what kind of place where we live in?


seems giving on a short scale, but if EVERYONE starts following suit and bypassing borders and requirements to just come and stay here,,,,,,what kind of place will we be living in?


how just is it that those who follow the law can fare WORSE(be rejected entry) than those who bypass and deceive it? I just dont get it....


seriously, I think I want to go to one of Trumps home when he isnt there, slip in his back patio, do some long overdue housework that he wasnt willing to, invite my cousins and siblings, have a child and then wait for him to discover me so I can demand what he should be doing for me and mine,,,,,,because, after all, we are ALREADY there, doing the work he wont, and it wouldnt be fair to punish the children,,,,,

willing2's photo
Mon 05/17/10 08:01 AM



hello Sancho how are you :wink:


Mejor ahora, Mi amor.

Como se fue?


Willing - chulo!!!! :heart:

I worship you and the sheets you slide across!drool flowers :angel:

willing2's photo
Mon 05/17/10 08:06 AM


It's heartwarming, 'people'-oriented stories like this one that make me realize what a warm, giving people we are ... I'm all full of 'warm fuzziness' now ... I think I might go hug a tree to celebrate ... I could even buy a Compact Fluorescent Bulb while I'm in this good a mood ... O joy! We truly ARE 'The Beacon On The Hill' ... !



reminds me of what my mom told me about littering when I was younger,,,,doesnt seem like much to just throw a bottle on the ground,,,but if one person is allowed everyone starts feeling like they should be allowed, and then what kind of place where we live in?


seems giving on a short scale, but if EVERYONE starts following suit and bypassing borders and requirements to just come and stay here,,,,,,what kind of place will we be living in?


how just is it that those who follow the law can fare WORSE(be rejected entry) than those who bypass and deceive it? I just dont get it....


seriously, I think I want to go to one of Trumps home when he isnt there, slip in his back patio, do some long overdue housework that he wasnt willing to, invite my cousins and siblings, have a child and then wait for him to discover me so I can demand what he should be doing for me and mine,,,,,,because, after all, we are ALREADY there, doing the work he wont, and it wouldnt be fair to punish the children,,,,,

You could do that at the White House. Lights are on but, nobody's home.

franshade's photo
Mon 05/17/10 02:01 PM




hello Sancho how are you :wink:


Mejor ahora, Mi amor.

Como se fue?


Willing - chulo!!!! :heart:

I worship you and the sheets you slide across!drool flowers :angel:

:heart: :heart:

JustAGuy2112's photo
Mon 05/17/10 02:20 PM


It's heartwarming, 'people'-oriented stories like this one that make me realize what a warm, giving people we are ... I'm all full of 'warm fuzziness' now ... I think I might go hug a tree to celebrate ... I could even buy a Compact Fluorescent Bulb while I'm in this good a mood ... O joy! We truly ARE 'The Beacon On The Hill' ... !



reminds me of what my mom told me about littering when I was younger,,,,doesnt seem like much to just throw a bottle on the ground,,,but if one person is allowed everyone starts feeling like they should be allowed, and then what kind of place where we live in?


seems giving on a short scale, but if EVERYONE starts following suit and bypassing borders and requirements to just come and stay here,,,,,,what kind of place will we be living in?


how just is it that those who follow the law can fare WORSE(be rejected entry) than those who bypass and deceive it? I just dont get it....


seriously, I think I want to go to one of Trumps home when he isnt there, slip in his back patio, do some long overdue housework that he wasnt willing to, invite my cousins and siblings, have a child and then wait for him to discover me so I can demand what he should be doing for me and mine,,,,,,because, after all, we are ALREADY there, doing the work he wont, and it wouldnt be fair to punish the children,,,,,


HAHAHAHAH!!!!

I remember bringing up something VERY similar to this and being told that " it's completely different ".

The claim was that the logic ( which Liberals seem to fail MISERABLY at using ) behind that kind of statement doesn't work because it's his " property " but the American borders are nothing more than an " imaginary " line.

Funny how, when it comes to having our COUNTRY basically invaded by law breakers, it's perfectly fine because the border is " imaginary " but yet, the individual's property line, which is no LESS imaginary, is off limits.

The country belongs to everyone....but my stuff is my stuff and you can't have it??

They just don't see that they can't have it both ways.

Either enforce ALL the laws...or enforce NONE of them. Including the laws against stealing your property.

That is essentially what the illegals are doing anyway.

msharmony's photo
Mon 05/17/10 02:27 PM



It's heartwarming, 'people'-oriented stories like this one that make me realize what a warm, giving people we are ... I'm all full of 'warm fuzziness' now ... I think I might go hug a tree to celebrate ... I could even buy a Compact Fluorescent Bulb while I'm in this good a mood ... O joy! We truly ARE 'The Beacon On The Hill' ... !



reminds me of what my mom told me about littering when I was younger,,,,doesnt seem like much to just throw a bottle on the ground,,,but if one person is allowed everyone starts feeling like they should be allowed, and then what kind of place where we live in?


seems giving on a short scale, but if EVERYONE starts following suit and bypassing borders and requirements to just come and stay here,,,,,,what kind of place will we be living in?


how just is it that those who follow the law can fare WORSE(be rejected entry) than those who bypass and deceive it? I just dont get it....


seriously, I think I want to go to one of Trumps home when he isnt there, slip in his back patio, do some long overdue housework that he wasnt willing to, invite my cousins and siblings, have a child and then wait for him to discover me so I can demand what he should be doing for me and mine,,,,,,because, after all, we are ALREADY there, doing the work he wont, and it wouldnt be fair to punish the children,,,,,


HAHAHAHAH!!!!

I remember bringing up something VERY similar to this and being told that " it's completely different ".

The claim was that the logic ( which Liberals seem to fail MISERABLY at using ) behind that kind of statement doesn't work because it's his " property " but the American borders are nothing more than an " imaginary " line.

Funny how, when it comes to having our COUNTRY basically invaded by law breakers, it's perfectly fine because the border is " imaginary " but yet, the individual's property line, which is no LESS imaginary, is off limits.

The country belongs to everyone....but my stuff is my stuff and you can't have it??

They just don't see that they can't have it both ways.

Either enforce ALL the laws...or enforce NONE of them. Including the laws against stealing your property.

That is essentially what the illegals are doing anyway.



so, am I liberal, conservative, a liberal conservative , or a conservative liberal?....lol

JustAGuy2112's photo
Mon 05/17/10 03:12 PM




It's heartwarming, 'people'-oriented stories like this one that make me realize what a warm, giving people we are ... I'm all full of 'warm fuzziness' now ... I think I might go hug a tree to celebrate ... I could even buy a Compact Fluorescent Bulb while I'm in this good a mood ... O joy! We truly ARE 'The Beacon On The Hill' ... !



reminds me of what my mom told me about littering when I was younger,,,,doesnt seem like much to just throw a bottle on the ground,,,but if one person is allowed everyone starts feeling like they should be allowed, and then what kind of place where we live in?


seems giving on a short scale, but if EVERYONE starts following suit and bypassing borders and requirements to just come and stay here,,,,,,what kind of place will we be living in?


how just is it that those who follow the law can fare WORSE(be rejected entry) than those who bypass and deceive it? I just dont get it....


seriously, I think I want to go to one of Trumps home when he isnt there, slip in his back patio, do some long overdue housework that he wasnt willing to, invite my cousins and siblings, have a child and then wait for him to discover me so I can demand what he should be doing for me and mine,,,,,,because, after all, we are ALREADY there, doing the work he wont, and it wouldnt be fair to punish the children,,,,,


HAHAHAHAH!!!!

I remember bringing up something VERY similar to this and being told that " it's completely different ".

The claim was that the logic ( which Liberals seem to fail MISERABLY at using ) behind that kind of statement doesn't work because it's his " property " but the American borders are nothing more than an " imaginary " line.

Funny how, when it comes to having our COUNTRY basically invaded by law breakers, it's perfectly fine because the border is " imaginary " but yet, the individual's property line, which is no LESS imaginary, is off limits.

The country belongs to everyone....but my stuff is my stuff and you can't have it??

They just don't see that they can't have it both ways.

Either enforce ALL the laws...or enforce NONE of them. Including the laws against stealing your property.

That is essentially what the illegals are doing anyway.



so, am I liberal, conservative, a liberal conservative , or a conservative liberal?....lol


I'm thinking ' one of a kind '.bigsmile

You are the rare person who has a Liberal lean, but can manage to use logic. lol

Bestinshow's photo
Mon 05/17/10 03:52 PM
Edited by Bestinshow on Mon 05/17/10 03:59 PM
OH those wacky republicans and their wedge issueslaugh They support Rush Lymbaugh after his pain pill popping rampage yet are against pain pills for poor people who are actualy in pain. Now we have the wedge issue of immigration. Whome do you think was all for cheap union busting wage reduceing labor? hmmmm was it the business class by any chance? if you guessed that your right and who is the business class? the same stinking republicans who would deny the poor widow down the street simple healthcare. Keep trying republicans maybe you can find the right wedge issue to distract from the real issues and win an election. Remeber my friends when the republicans had both the house and the senate and the white house all they could do was start wars and bankrupt the country. They didnt fix imigration and they didnt fix the economy, they didnt solve the defecit or make one little thing better for the average american. All they could do was send our sons and daughters to far flung lands and kill other peoples sons and daughters. Shame on all of you

JustAGuy2112's photo
Mon 05/17/10 03:59 PM
Considering that 70% of the people in this country are opposed to Amnesty...there is no other " wedge " issue needed.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Obama grants Amnesty to over 15 million people, in this economy, the Dems won't see the White House again for at LEAST 20 years.

Bestinshow's photo
Mon 05/17/10 04:07 PM
Edited by Bestinshow on Mon 05/17/10 04:08 PM

Considering that 70% of the people in this country are opposed to Amnesty...there is no other " wedge " issue needed.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Obama grants Amnesty to over 15 million people, in this economy, the Dems won't see the White House again for at LEAST 20 years.
I have to wonder why the republicans (business class) let them in the country in the first place. One would think that way back when they were crossing the border from mexico to texas senior Bush would have clammped down. 15 million is a small number in a country of 300 million. My opinion is let t he ones here stay and close the borders to new imigration. Let the country have time to adjust and those here acclimate to what it is to be an american. I dont wish to see a roundup and police state type tacticts used to find the illegals from the legals. Just close off the border for gods sake. Many many Mexicans work hard every day and yes some milk the system but ya know what a small percent of every race and nationality does this. get a grip allready

JustAGuy2112's photo
Mon 05/17/10 04:16 PM


Considering that 70% of the people in this country are opposed to Amnesty...there is no other " wedge " issue needed.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Obama grants Amnesty to over 15 million people, in this economy, the Dems won't see the White House again for at LEAST 20 years.
I have to wonder why the republicans (business class) let them in the country in the first place. One would think that way back when they were crossing the border from mexico to texas senior Bush would have clammped down. 15 million is a small number in a country of 300 million. My opinion is let t he ones here stay and close the borders to new imigration. Let the country have time to adjust and those here acclimate to what it is to be an american. I dont wish to see a roundup and police state type tacticts used to find the illegals from the legals. Just close off the border for gods sake. Many many Mexicans work hard every day and yes some milk the system but ya know what a small percent of every race and nationality does this. get a grip allready


One...15 million is a VERY light estimate.

Two...15 million may be a " small " number out of 300 million..but it's a very LARGE number for the several million folks who are currently out of work and running out of unemployment benefits.

Three....they tried the " Let the ones who are here stay here " thing before. All it did was encourage even more to cross illegally because they figured eventually they would be rewarded for doing so.

Four..it's obvious that you, like all the other Liberals who are doing all the shouting about the law, haven't bothered to actually READ the law.

Five...in NO way should any group, no matter how " hard " they work, be REWARDED for breaking the laws of this country. All that will do is encourage even MORE to break the law in anticipation of getting the same reward once their numbers get big enough.

I have a firm grip.

Perhaps you might try thinking with logic rather than emotion.

Bestinshow's photo
Mon 05/17/10 04:24 PM
Edited by Bestinshow on Mon 05/17/10 04:26 PM



Considering that 70% of the people in this country are opposed to Amnesty...there is no other " wedge " issue needed.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Obama grants Amnesty to over 15 million people, in this economy, the Dems won't see the White House again for at LEAST 20 years.
I have to wonder why the republicans (business class) let them in the country in the first place. One would think that way back when they were crossing the border from mexico to texas senior Bush would have clammped down. 15 million is a small number in a country of 300 million. My opinion is let t he ones here stay and close the borders to new imigration. Let the country have time to adjust and those here acclimate to what it is to be an american. I dont wish to see a roundup and police state type tacticts used to find the illegals from the legals. Just close off the border for gods sake. Many many Mexicans work hard every day and yes some milk the system but ya know what a small percent of every race and nationality does this. get a grip allready


One...15 million is a VERY light estimate.

Two...15 million may be a " small " number out of 300 million..but it's a very LARGE number for the several million folks who are currently out of work and running out of unemployment benefits.

Three....they tried the " Let the ones who are here stay here " thing before. All it did was encourage even more to cross illegally because they figured eventually they would be rewarded for doing so.

Four..it's obvious that you, like all the other Liberals who are doing all the shouting about the law, haven't bothered to actually READ the law.

Five...in NO way should any group, no matter how " hard " they work, be REWARDED for breaking the laws of this country. All that will do is encourage even MORE to break the law in anticipation of getting the same reward once their numbers get big enough.

I have a firm grip.

Perhaps you might try thinking with logic rather than emotion.
Your kidding right? It was the business people who wanted cheap union busting labor. It was Bush in Texas and the white house who turned a blind eye to illegal immigration in the first place. All you republicans act like you just found out we have been importing cheap labor since obama was elected. This is an old game of big business and historicly they have allways pitted differant races against each other in the labor game. It was the Chinese in the day of the rail roads, pick an era and you will see the same patern over and over again. The same hysterics played themselves out and in the end we all became americans. In the bad old days even union men would hastle the chinese or whoever the race was that would work for the cheapest wage all the while the fat cats got richer and we worked for less and less. Its not the mexicans that are hurting you it is people who hire them. I would bet my last dollar that whatever cheap sweat shop that employs an illegal you will find a republican runs that same sweat shop blathering on and on about how the liberals are killing the countrylaugh

JustAGuy2112's photo
Mon 05/17/10 04:39 PM
Psst....in amongst all your rambling..I need to point out something.

Unlike some others around here who deny what they are...I am most certainly not a Republican. Just because I form my opinions using logic doesn't mean that I am Republican. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't make me a Republican.

I do not agree with everything from EITHER party.

I have never said, nor will I say, that the last Amnesty bill was a good idea. I don't believe an unfettered free market is the perfect solution.

I also don't believe that abortion should be outlawed in all cases.

So....unless you have insight into what I think that no one, including me, actually has, then please refrain from trying to place me in a box just because it would be convenient to your position.

msharmony's photo
Mon 05/17/10 05:30 PM
Is it an option to close the borders AND deport those here illegally(if we close the borders , we can take our time with the deportation and no 'round up' will be necessary)

I understand the numbers are large, but whatever is done is going to have to take alot of effort, time, and manpower anyhow. To keep them here we would still have to have them be counted in, which doesnt take anymore effort than just having them counted out so those who have abided by the laws dont feel slapped in the face as if their efforts were for nothing...

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