Sorry!!!

MsHarmony...you're doing that old song and dance routine again ...I simply asked if a human did the same thing would you consider it to be evil or good? ...please choose either evil or good

ITs all a matter of perspective,, obviously. I dont believe in punishment so much as I do real consequences to real choices. I stated in another Haiti thread that I feel it would be pompous to ASSUME what happened in Haiti was punishment. It could be many things and only God really knows.

Sometimes great tragedy or tragic situations in the flesh are spiritually uplifting. If you believe, as I do, that death is not a punishment than things which lead to death are also not punishment. We all have a purpose and we all will die, its unpreventable. The point is in the impact our lives make while we are here, and sometimes the impact our death makes can be substantial as well. I dont believe when I die it will be some personal punishment, I think it will be an invitation to a paradise I can hardly imagine. I believe those children of the flood, and in Haiti, are in a paradise that far surpasses the mortal life they had and so I see those natural events as serving a divine purpose.

I cant reiterate enough however, that I attribute and believe these choices are in the strict DOMAIN of God and do NOT believe any man is God or has ANY iminent right to decide when life begins or ends.

I believe I did,, any man making Gods choice to give or take life is not doing good. A man who creates anything to take lives would be doing evil.

and that is why I said that with God you can fullfill your desire for vengence and blood lust.. because when God kills babies...to you this is good...

to put it in worldly terms,,,would it not be good for a child who had not enough to eat, no shelter, threats to their life all around them,,,to have someone take them away to a paradise where there is plenty of food, love, shelter, and all needs are abundantly met?

What if I asked if it would be terrible for someone to take children from wore torn afghan and pay all their expenses to move to the Bahamas with all provisions accounted for and plenty of love all around? Would you not think that good?


when God brings us home, babies , elderly , and everything in between


its glorious

though suffering is a terrible thing to experience or witness, death is the end of suffering

death is just where paradise might start,, a potential promotion from life,,,,


( all in perspective )

That is exactly what makes this 'domain of 'god' mentality dangerous for the human race.

When one considers the fable of the flood, or the recent Haïti tragedy, some sort of 'domain of 'god' 'just' phenomenons!
... this same person has to agree with Pope Pius XII, whom felt that he had no right to intervene in 'god's will, when faced with questions about the unraveling of the WWII holocaust during his pontifical reign!!!

A very twisted way of making mass murdering, a sort of acceptable concept (most of them going to this imaginary heaven, for good conscience) when and only when one truly believes the mass murder is conveniently 'handled' by an imaginary 'god'.

it can be dangerous , I Agree. I think it is simple to give domain over life and death to God. In doing so, I cannot stand by and have no stance when I see HUMANS dictating life and death of others. I dont know much about Pope or his opinions, I think he possibly has put himself in the place of God but that is a discussion for another thread. Perhaps he DID have some special communication with God pertaining to the matter,, I dont really know.

It is Gods will, life and death, but that does not mean we are to be apathetic to mans actions towards implementing life and death. It is not mans place, whatever his title.

Pope Pius XII's view was exactly the same as the one you expressed about the 'flood fable' and the 'Haïti tragedy'.
You wrote:
'... If you believe, as I do, that death is not a punishment than things which lead to death are also not punishment...'

Since Pope Pius couldn't do anything to stop the WWII, he figured as you do, that it was 'his god's will, where one should never be so pretentious as to intervene in 'god's will, and whatever '... lead to death...' through your 'god's will, '... is not punishment...' but a blessing!!! Who would want to stop 'god's blessings!?!?!?

This is a perfect example of a mental construct through faith!!!

As long as it remains in the personal domain of one's faith, there is no problem. However, when you apply this mental construct to 'real life' situations, it always ends-up either causing, or collaborating to cause the worst human atrocities.

I agree, with you and not the Pope. When I speak of Gods will, I am referring strictly to NATURAL occurrences. Those things created or done by MAN are within mans control and should be things that man is held accountable for.

MsHarmony...are you describing the lake of fire

the post you quoted doesnt mention or refer to a lake of fire,,,no.

Well 'msharmony', that puts you argument in total and absolute contradiction with most of your christian fellowship.

They view 'defending' their god' through war as their personal 'DUTY TO THEIR GOD'!!!
Something THEIR GOD WILLED THEM TO ENGAGE IN. IN THE NAME OF GOD!!! THEY STILL CLAIM!!! Right up to our most contemporary 'W', waging a holy war against the 'axis of evil'!!!

With that faithful mental construct, Pope Pius was correctly figuring (according to YOUR FAITH) that his 'god' was gloriously calling his 'Jewish' cousins to heaven EARLY!!! Like you 'msharmony', Pius chose to interpret what was happening, not as atrocities, NOT AS PUNISHMENT, but rather, as a blessing!!!

It is only long after the genocidal war, that we all woke up to the unnameable consequences of man's religious mental contructs, when applied to reality.

Dangerous mental virus, with real atrocious consequences.

why should it matter if I mention it or not...you said that death is the end to all suffering..so would that mean that what you are saying is not exactly true...

don't act stupid trying to play word games funches. You know exactly what she ment, she was refering to the physical death. Has nothing to do with burning in the lake of fire.

I dont know about MOST of my christian fellowship but I am quite in agreement that many christians are falsely motivated and falsely lead. I believe that for each one who is , however, there are two or more who do wonderful things in Gods name. The bible can indeed be misused, much like a drug that is created to heal can have quite an opposite affect if misused or abused.

Cowboy...sorry but it has everything to do with the Lake of Fire and I will explain why....

MsHarmony was trying to justify why it was ok for God to drown people and innocent newborn babies by claiming that Death would end their suffering ...

since everyone's destiny is to die will that mean that all suffering will end for everyone..if the answer is no...then that is why MsHarmony was not telling the truth because she was being deceptive by suggesting that it would ..because she left out the fact that some of those people will suffer after death in the the lake of fire

And worse yet the certain religious like to refer people to hell that do not believe as they do. Even the men who wrote the bible could not help themselves in this hypocritical judgement.

Superiority and hypocrisy, the base of most religions.

Resulting in an unhealthy mindset to boot for most.

No offense to you personally 'msharmony', you are obviously a fair and good person from what can be read in your posts. Furthermore, I don't believe that the good and fair that you are has anything to do with religion. It is just that you are a fair and good fundamentally.

That being said, neither you, and much less I, have any say nor control over the wider christian, or multi dogma religious communities out there.

When it comes to the religious phenomenon as a whole, and this drug metaphor you brought up, the religious dogma fed to most believers is acting a lot more like some bad '... back alley crack cocaïne...', than any life saving therapy.

Like the crime enforcing agencies fighting the 'back alley' charlatans, I strongly believe that reasonable believers such as yourself, are going to have to bring in check the marginal elements of the religion you cherish.

If you agree, as you wrote above, that the bible can be misused, than you should defend what you consider to be its integrity, and denounce any pretending christian, whom persists in perverting what you consider to be sacred!!!

let me rephrase to be more clear, as was implied by the words potential and might,,,,in reference to suffering

death is just where paradise might start,, a potential promotion from life

death is the end of our suffering here on earth,,,,death can be potentially a promotion or a demotion, a consequence of how we live(good or bad).