Sure Abra, but is the easy choice always the best way to go for each
individual? My opinion free will wins out on that one. Now if you
start acting on that hate in a manner not suitable to law, i.e. hate
crimes - different story.

Today's reading on the subject of Unconditional Love comes to us from
such diverse sources as Microsoft, O. Henry and Meatloaf.

Yes, I can already hear you groan, but stick with me on this on, mmkay?

First from O. Henry's "Gift of the Magi", we learn that two foolish
lovers each give up their most prized possession in turn so that the
other may have the what their heart desires the most at Christmas. And
quite the sacrifice it is, as it somehow all goes wrong when what each
has given up is the very thing that gives the respective gifts their
meanings.

But, like Unconditional Love in Real Life, it was the thought that
counted. Because, you see, the Devil is in the details as O. Henry tells
us in 'Telemachus, Friend'. To paraphrase O. Henry in that installment,
"But in the case of human beings, Unconditional Love is a transitory
act, subject to discontinuance without further notice." And while it's
(again) the thought that counts, the thinker (read: person who wants
badly to Love Unconditionally) also is a keeper of counts, scores,
tallies of resentments, et cetera, et cetera.

It's this score keeping that brings us to the Microsoft part of our
lesson:

Let Y= Countdown
Let X= Unconditonal love (Boolean)

While Y > 0

Do X= True

Else Do X= False

So, we see that Unconditional Love is a variable in the time domain,
such that as long as there is Unconditional Love because a certain
<cough> condition <cough> has not been reached, there are no conditions
on the Love while the love is there.

Confused? It's acually all very logical as these lyrics from Meatloaf's
Paradise by the Dashboard Lights provide the requisite edification:

"And then the feeling came upon me
Like a tidal wave and
I started swearing to my god and on my mother's grave
That I would love you to the end of time
I swore that I would love you to the end of time!

So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I just don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows that I cud do it right now.
I'm praying for the end of time
It's all that I can do (Ooooh, oooooh!)...
Praying for the end of time, so I can end my time with you!!!"

Herein ends the reading for today.

-Kerry O.

People Are Strange

Kerry O has a great point and a great train of thought.

And it is human nature to 'view' another based on one's own conditions
and limiters..

so there is this 'Love' that is limiting...not very unconditional.

What I have struggled with, is learning to accept another, whether in a
romantic relationship, or just the sharing the earth type of
relationship, accepting them, just as they are. However that be...even
opposing completely in their conditions, their limiters...

Allowing the other to be exactly as they are, and loving them anyway.

Reminding myself, that to be a living entity, or a neighbour on this
Earth, is all it takes to be worthy of my love for them.

We all have our own moral codes, we know when something doesn't sit well
within us, and I find, if you can step outside of your own bindings,(
conditions), and look at the other's behaviours objectively, there is
room to grow, and perhaps learn more about yourself.

I see an unconditional relationship as an unconditional love, and by
accepting the other exactly as they are, and not judging their
behaviours, but rather to learn more about the person who displays these
behaviours, is an act of love with no conditions.

Kidatheart writes:

"People Are Strange"

The Doors, second album. Although I 've always liked "The Wasp (Texas
Radio and the Big Beat)" a lot more.

"I'll tell you this,
No eternal reward will forgive us now
for wasting the dawn."


-Kerry O.

I love everybody as long as they don’t step on my blue suede shoes.

KerryO, Thanks. I got to laugh (the intro.) and learn at the same time
- always a great combo in my opinion.

Jess, having people like you around gives me hope for the future of
humanity. Actually, I think it would be more accurate to call what I've
learned from your posts to be evidence of the existence of humanity.
Thank you.

Cross singer.....

Funny, I think it's possible that I've learned more from "Rock and Roll"
than any church or religion could possibly come close to
teaching.
Makes you wonder about The Rolling Stones though

Unconditional love is when they give you the divorce paper and you don't
even read it but sign on the dotted line. Unconditional friendship is
when you can finally forgive them.

~ Unconditional Love ~

~~~

I’ll love you unconditionally
from the bottom of my heart
Assuming you’ll be nice to me
and never blow a fart

I’ll love you till the end of time
through sickness and in health
Assuming you’re responsible
and won’t squander all our wealth

I’ll love you for eternity
until the universe is dying
Assuming you don’t cheat on me
or I never catch you lying!

I’ll love you absolutely
in spite of what you’re paid
Assuming that you romance me
to insure that I get laid

I’ll love you when there’s holidays
I’ll love you when there’s not
Assuming you aren’t always drunk
or spending money on your pot!

I’ll love you till the cows come home
until icebergs form in hell
Assuming that you’re always clean
and don’t begin to smell

To seal our loving union
and save us both bereavement
please sign upon the bottom line
of this prenuptial agreement

~~~

(Abra 6/10/07)

Unconditional love, yes it can exist. Just because there is
unconditional love in a relationship, does not make the relationship
itself unconditional.

As life unfolds, some changes affect the intrinsic nature of a person.
In other words, the person you love unconditionally, becomes a person,
different, from the one you loved.

If everything about that person no longer exists as it was, than the
relationship will be in peril.

This does not mean that your unconditional love has changed, it simply
means that the person is no longer the package you loved
unconditionally.

This is where the most difficult work takes place within a relationship.
To see the changes as they begin to occur and to reconcile them and
incorporate them within the values of the original package. This is
where the unconditional is thrashed out. If this can not be assimilated
by both parties, it just means that one loved unconditionally, while the
other did not.

I guess, the simplest way to imagine an unconditional relationship with
unconditional love, would be to have a strong desire to create a life
long bond. A bond based on the unconditional. Nothing expected, but
nothing denied, everything offered and nothing lost, every freedom
extended but never abused, every consideration given, because it is
returned.

If a live together is lived in this way, there is no change, no disease,
no poverty or wealth that would, that can break it. You can see this in
the elderly as they care for their Alzheimer or senile partners, or
those who have grown too sick or frail to be alone. For it continues
seemingly one-sided .......
nothing denied, everything offered, every freedom that is safely
allowed, and every consideration, continues to maintain the
unconditional for both.

I think unconditional love is actually getting to know the person or the
object of your affection better. An old adage is that the times they are
a changing. Some have saw this as people change and that time is
relative. In a relationship one or both can change thereby changing the
relationship itself. It can come to the point that there really isn't a
relationship any more or that both don't even know each other any more.
Communication breakdowns are inevitable if two do not communicate any
more. Still one can have an unconditional friendship even though the
love has gone out of the relationship. Friendship without love may be
undesirable though.

I have been thinking about this and I am not sure I have gained any more
clarity about it...

I believe unconditional love exists. I like to believe that I love that
way and I do a lot of the time. Where I struggle is in my frustration
when I see such light and love and potential in the people I care about
that they just don't see in themselves. How I wish more people could
see themselves through my eyes.

The love then is unconditional but the relationships aren't always. It
isn't that the love stops but more that I need to set parameters around
the places I am willing to go. The amount of me that I can invest
without losing myself.

It has been a hard lesson and I have and still do lose myself in the
pain of others sometimes...my emaphetic and compassionate nature leads
me to help others or accept behaviour even when it is not in my highest
good emotionally or mentally to do so.

By their very nature then I believe that all relationship must carry
condition. We are all one but here to experience separate. To
experience the notion of separate, there must be condition - at least in
the form of boundaries.

I am not sure if I am satisfied and will be pondering this for awhile
longer

I don't believe humans are capable of unconditional love. I am sure
that some of us can get pretty close, but the goal will always be out of
reach. I think the Amish have a great start on unconditional love.

To me, the question is pretty straight forward: unconditional love vs.
an unconditional relationship are very much different concepts.

This is how I think of it: Given the same biochemical / genetic makeup
and identical antecedent environments, I would be identical to anyone
here. Nature and nurture would both be identical. We would be,
essentially, the same person. So, how can I have anything but
unconditional love for everyone, knowing that in their exact situation I
would behave identically?

BUT, even though I empathize with the plight of others and have great
sympathy for all whose lives are spiraling out of control, that does not
mean I must place myself in harm's way to love someone who is
self-destructive. Sometimes genetics or conditioning simply cannot be
overcome, or the toll it would take to break them would be an
overwhelming undertaking.

So, while I may love everyone unconditionally by virtue that we are all
conceptually different aspects of a single entity, that love does not
entail my own self-destruction by surrounding myself with entirely
damaged and unhealthy people.

It's similar to how I love animals and have no malice toward any beast.
But, I wouldn't put myself at great risk to reach into a lion's mouth to
remove poisoned meat. A lion's nature is demonstrably dangerous to my
well-being and there are limits to the risks I will take to save the
lion — despite how much I may wish I could (reasonably) safely help.
Likewise, in the case of human interaction, I won't allow myself to be
in a position where I am likely to be taken advantage of or harmed
(physically or emotionally) if the person in question has proven
him-/herself to be untrustworthy in those ways.

I reread my post and noticed one thing that may be ambiguous depending
how it's read:

"... that does not mean I must place myself in harm's way to love
someone who is self-destructive."

I do not mean that loving someone puts me in harm's way, but that the
act of loving someone does not _require_ that I put myself in harm's
way. I apologize for not being clearer when I wrote that.

ArtGurl wrote:

"The love then is unconditional but the relationships aren't always. It
isn't that the love stops but more that I need to set parameters around
the places I am willing to go. The amount of me that I can invest
without losing myself."

I think that rings very true. To be willing to take unconditional
action, even on behalf of a single person whom one unconditionally
loves, would result in a significant loss of self. That's not always
bad, of course — caring for a child requires unconditional love from the
parents _and_ unconditional action that flows from that love. Parents
cannot help but be forever changed and "lose" much of themselves in
their children. If one were to have that sort of unconditional
relationship with everyone, however, it would quickly become
overwhelming. We must have limits and boundaries to preserve personal
identity while continuing to be loving, helpful individuals.