I believe this is a basic simplistic misinterpretation of the bible.

I would interpret the the phrase "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before ME!" as an attempt by the authors to describe a transcendent ethical principle. That there is an absolute criterion - a simple rejection of moral relativism and that there is a best way to live - a description of which is attempted in various parts of the bible. It is this description that people have wrestled with throughout history. It is indeed only a starting point for understanding ethics. The bible raises the questions and gives various scenarios but it is far short of leaving an unambiguous prescription - it must be interpreted and discussed and that is in fact the value of it. Perhaps not the best way of doing it. Certainly not the only way. But it was the way monotheism developed originally in the west.

There is nothing in buddhism, wicca, taoism, judaism christianity or islam or any other of the spectrum of religions really which differs much from any of this imo. Same principles different rites. No problem as long as everyone recognizes this and practices religious tolerance.

s1owhand,

The term "tolerance" for me, has negative undertones. It is a word that implies that people SHOULD "put up with" something that they actually reject or find objectionable.

I agree that people should live and let live to a point, as long as we are not made to suffer other people's behavior directly against our will and as long as their so-call religious beliefs and practices don't include cruelty, human sacrifice or some other disgusting cruel and wrong behavior. Don't ever ask me to "tolerate" that quietly, I probably won't do it.

I like to talk about practicing the law of allowance. It is in line with allowing people free will with the wisdom to understand that what goes around WILL EVENTUALLY COME AROUND.

You can't save people from themselves usually. The Law of Karma, cause and effect is here to teach the unteachable via their experience.

If you don't learn via your experience, you will continue to go in circles and suffer the same thing over and over because you will continue to think and act in the same manner and that will reap the same results. Its called going in circles.

So when I see someone going in circles, I can only try to bring some enlightenment to them that might help them get out of that trap. I cannot force them out of it. Neither can they force me into their trap. They may not like what I say or what I believe and they may call themselves "tolerating" me, but "tolerating" is not the same as letting go and allowing. When you let go and allow, you do so with the understanding that people are creating their own experiences and reaping their own results.

People with the idea that they are going to spread their truth no matter what,-- whether other people want it or not-- (Forced religion, convert or die mentality) --are not being "tolerant" and don't ever intend to be, and yet they preach that others should be tolerant of them... until they are in a position to tell you "convert or die!"

there must be one because koury was screaming out his name all weekend...lol

Oh, come on Slow, you can't be serious. Have you actually READ the Bible?

The Biblical God is portrayed as having commanded people to stone heathens to death. And even to burn and kill every one in the village from whence they came. It's a story of an extremely jealous God who won't tolerate the slightest hint of other religions or Gods. Religious tolerance is a big NO-NO in the actual Bible.

It was this theme that gave things like the Crusades and the Witch Hunts a green light. God gave his PERMISSION (and even commanded that it is our DUTY) to seek out and destroy heathens, where a "heathen" is simply anyone who refuses to acknolwedge the Bible as the "Word of God".

Again, I point out that this is precisely what makes the Abrahamic religions so dangerous. Your suggestion that Wicca, or Buddhism is the same way is simply incorrect. There is nothing in either of those religions that demand that their followers kill people who refuse to believe in those doctrines or spiritualities.

There's just no comparison at all.

The Biblical God is just a very jealous version of Zeus.

I have read the bible. Not exhaustively. I agree that there are violent stories but I don't agree that it *advocates* violence as a way to behave.

The Crusades and Witch Hunts were not commanded or suggested by anything in the bible. They were wrong just as most Mulsims would
say that radical Islamists are wrong.

How can you possibly take stories about Sodom and Gemorrah seriously?

Such are no more than fables to suggest that bad behavior will not
be rewarded but will only beget more bad behavior. I don't take it
any further than that. Most of the bible like most other religious
narratives or teachings is gauged towards peace, kindness and love
towards others.

To ignore the majority of the bible and focus solely on any violent references is just as wrong as taking it literally which is obviously ludicrous.

I still believe the essence of all the major religions is basically the same the Abrahamic religions not excepted.

I don't. But those who do are the problem.



Then just read a book about the law of Karma. No need to read the Bible.




Really? They go about it in a very strange way then. One that is very often misinterpreted.



My point is, there are better books for the purpose of raising the consciousness of mankind. The Bible has outlived its usefulness.

Well, I would beg to differ. Clearly people have obviously felt that the Bible supports these ideas otherwise these events would have never taken place and been supported by so many followers of the Bible. History speaks for itself on that one, I think.



I don't. But many religious people do.


To ignore the majority of the bible and focus solely on any violent references is just as wrong as taking it literally which is obviously ludicrous.

Well, now your just suggesting that people who read the Bible should already be wise and know what's right or wrong. But gee whiz, if that were the case, then what would we even need a Bible for in the first place.

You seem to be assuming that everyone who is going to read this book is a reasonable and wise person ALREADY. But we're talking about a religion doctrine here that is supposed to INSTILL good morals in the reader. We'd not talking about readers who should already be intelligent and wise enough to know which parts of the book are wise and which parts are utterly stupid.

All you're suggesting there is that we should all become little "King James's" and pick and choose only the parts of the text that we feel should be holy.

But then where does the moral superiority arise from in that case? From the authors of the Book? Or from the already wise and intelligent reader?

What good is a moral guide-book that the reader must pick and choose which parts of it are moral? That makes no sense to me at all.

If we're going to recoginize our own moral superiority over the authors of the Bible, then instead of looking to their book for guidance, we should just WRITE our own book of morals.

Then we can just leave out all the stupidity and immoral hostility so future readers won't need to weed throught those parts.

Amen to that! Let's move forward, not backward.

It's all the same god. I don't see any boogeyman in the bible.

well Jeanniebean if you are so sure that there isnt a God then it should be relatively easy to disprove all of us and end this little argument right now

I don't think so. I mean to say that I don't think it is all the same God. I don't think these myths and legends come from the same entity or God.

If indeed there exists some entity, alien or otherwise, who claims to be a God there are probably other entities that will make that claim also, and they may actually exist. They can then come to the earth and convince the primitive and lowly humans that they are superior beings or Gods, I think that this is where a lot of these legends come from.

Aliens. Blood thirsty draconian and reptilian aliens who THINK they are Gods or PRETEND to be gods.

I feel the same way. Why should I think the Bible came from God any more than the story of Zeus?

It's filled with male-chauvinism and bigoty. I see absolutely no reason to believe that it was written by anyone other than the crude and vulgar culture that it was written by.

Why should we look back to that crude and rude society for advice and morality? Why should we think that they knew any better than us?

The very idea that the Bible has anything at all to do with any God is an idea that I'm not even remotely prepared to buy into. As far as I'm concerned it's just the sick thoughts of a sick society.

And people have been brainwashed ... and I mean literally brainwashed into the idea that there is only ONE GOD. How the hell do they know that if they can't even define what they mean by God.

Even if God is defined as the entire universe, how the hell can anyone know whether or not there is only one universe?

outlived its usefulness,,,thats a bold statement, ,sort of insulting to those of us who still use and refer to it,,,,

we learn through reading and applying it to our own experiences...someone wrote about air,, we apply that to our everyday experience to verify (as much as we can) that what they wrote is truth


this is how we gain a good portion of our knowledge about life, through reading and applying what we read to our life

the Bible is no exception to this,,,,,some people put faith in what Scientists have written and CLAIMED to have proven,, others put faith in what the disciples wrote and CLAIMED to have witnessed. When we can apply it to our own life and find that it is reasonable and logical,, than it becomes truth for us,,and conspiracy for those who dont believe

perhaps hundreds of years from now , when there are fewer documents about certain SCIENTIFIC discoveries,, they will be regarded as myth by some as well......

this is true of almost any TOPIC we could speak about,,, The Bible is more useful to me than an American History book and so long as they arent trying to get rid of those and move forward, I see no reason for any effort to get rid of the Bible.

___________________UNDENIABLE FACTS_______________
1. The Bibile is at least 6,000 years old!
2. The knowledge has been verbally passed from generation to generation... until the written word has been invented;
3. The Printing Press was invented in the mid 15th century
4. {6000 - 1550 = 4450} That's how long the Book has been manually copied by various "dilligent" people...

Can you imagine how many ommitions, deletions, personal additions and translations has been committed during 4,450 years???!!!

Anfortunately, the original has been lost, so there is no way of determining the authenticity even of the most ancient manuscript!

Seems like Religion is more of a custom (a Tradition) rather than a specific story of the way of life!

Well I think I fall into the single deity camp. It is too beautiful of a concept. If one considers God to be the sum of all things, there can only be one, consideration of god to be perfection then there can only be one, if god is the original cause then there can only be one. It fits perfectly. It has a "singular brilliance" about it.

I tend to view the bible as divinely inspired because it touches on virtually all the important ethical issues of humankind - one of only a handful of early religious texts to do so - plus it makes a real sincere and on the whole rather successful effort at giving guidelines on how to lead a good life. This is what people find compelling and inspiring about the bible.

Just because it is somewhat antiquated, and various people have misused it throughout history to push their religious agendas on others or to justify elitism or even violence - it does not actually advocate any of these things - so there is no need to demonize the bible or make something which has been inspiring in a good way for so many people out to be something less.

This whole idea that "my concept of divinity is better than your concept of divinity" is the kind of garbage that should really be eschewed. But that means also making the admission that the Abrahamic god is just as good as the Wiccan god or the Tao etc. etc. in fact everybody is talking about the identically same deity! Yes, this is also the beauty of monotheism - imo - a great equalizer.

Oh yes, telling people that they are essentially wastes of air because they used their free will to make a decision... Babies born "dirty" by original sin. Women as second class citizens because they listening to a serpent.

Women being unclean longer for having birthed a girl child, then a boy child. Heck, women being unclean from menstruation! Yeah, that's such a good and inspiring life! Go Leviticus, rah, rah, rah!

I don't think so!

I never said I was sure that there isn't a God. I don't argue that there is no God. I just don't go around feeling that I need to waste my time proving that a thing does not exist that has not even been defined or described or proven to exist in the first place. It is not my mission to tell people what to believe.

So no, I can't prove that anything does NOT exist. That's silly.

For a person to even claim there is a God they must first define and describe to me what exactly they are talking about.

If you describe God as a sovereign entity who created the world, who has a personality that can be angry and jealous and gets involved with human affairs, then I would have to say there could very possibly be some alien entity that at one time claimed to be that God. (But I wouldn't believe he was the one and only almighty God even if I saw him.)

Maybe you would. Maybe a lot of people would. I just don't believe it. I think any being or entity that claims to be the one and only almighty God is lying.

To lump all deities into one would be like lumping all people into one. There would be no individuality acknowledged at all. (We may as well be assimilated by the Borg.)

Of course if you want to have such a loose metaphorical view of God or Gods in general, God a becomes rather meaningless concept that vaguely means any kind of "higher power" you might want to imagine, or it just means consciousness in general that flows through all things in this universe. I can understand that concept.

Of course I do believe that there is are "higher powers" and spiritual beings of all kinds in this universe. I believe we are connected to all things and that consciousness exists on many levels. But I don't think I would lump all higher powers into a single deity or concept that lacks depth and individuality.

Perhaps you mistake me for a non-spiritual atheist. On the contrary, I am very spiritual. I believe in co-creation, manifestation, and real magick, which is what I call spiritual technology.

If you want proof that God exists just look in the mirror. Look within yourself. You are that.

I can prove God exists, because I exist. I cannot prove God does not exist to anyone else because I don't know what they mean by "God."