Now that is a fact they cannot dispute

a sad situation

Sorry you feel this way, and I completely disagree with you.

What's really sad is you were the first one to make this a political argument. Instead of refraining and showing your disdain for conservatives, you chose to go that route instead of noting the deaths that just occurred by a cold blooded killer.

Nice move

I;m a conservative. I make no attempt to diguise that.. but my conservatism has nothing to do with religion. not a thing.

Liberalism does not equate to tolerance

Conservatism does not equate to extremism

and no amount of empty headed howling will make it otherwise.

I no more identify with the "God hates fags" church in Kansas, whatever they call themselves, than I do with the Trinity United Black Liberation Theology Church. Both preach intolerance and intolerance I reject, no matter which side of the spectrum it comes from..

And there's at least as much intolerance on the Left as there is on the Right..

It's tolerance that allows people to live in people, in coexistence.

Stating that "Liberalism" tends to peace as "Conservatism" tends to voilence is a gross over-simplification.. and a sophomoric, ideolgically-driven, hyperpartisan way of thinking..

thanks for helping establish a middle ground

roflmao, you take the cake man...

By the very definition of the term "psychopath" a person who suffers from this affliction can not be held accountable because he is not in his right frame of mind!

from American Heritage Dictionary

psychopath n 1. A person with an antisocial personality disorder, especially one mainfested in aggressive, perverted, criminal or amoral behavior.

No where in this definition is there any indicant that the person isn't or cannot be held accountable for his behaviour or not being in his right mind.

nice try.. next.


and are you really asserting that Maj Hasan should not be held to account for his actions?? really????

Not sure why you addressed it to me? My response was to mirrormirror, the one that brings up conservative and extremism in almost ever thing he writes.

yes that is a dictionary definition of the term. NOW, go look up the American Laws concerning people who suffer from Psychosis, and also reference historical court cases involving people who suffer from various psychosis. In a case where a man claims to suffer from a psychosis the judge is required by law to immediately order the accused into psychiatric evaluation, and the case is postponed until that review has been given. In many cases a judge will require two or three psychiatrists to make a determination in order to make sure it is as accurate as possible.

So nice try to you for trying to confuse the issue. However, I rest by my words, and by what I have seen and watched happen. In regards to Major Hasan, I say he should undergo a psychiatric exam, by civilian doctors (yes civilian, because he is not going to receive an unbiassed exam from military professionals), and determined whether or not he was suffering from anything that would suggest he was not in his right frame of mind at the time of his actions.

Whether you like it or not buddy, the United States is a great place because it gives freedom to due process, and the right to be innocent until proven guilty to every single person, no matter the situation or personal feelings of others involved.

This Major has the right to be seen by a medical professional, and determined whether or not he was sane.

typical.. loosing the arguemnt so you attempt to shift the ground.. you assert that a psychopath can't, by law and by definition, be held responsible for his actions etc because he's not in his right mind... then bring me the word "psychosis"

ok, again from American Heritage Dictionary

psychosis adj. A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning.

Ok.. that's a different animal than psychopathic

psychopathic adj. 1. Of, or related to, or characterized by psychopathy. 2. Relating to or affected with an antisocial personality disorder that is usually characterized by aggressive, perverted, criminal or amoral behaviour.

Ok? so there are two different terms you want to play here..

Your orinal assertion


psychopathology isn't a specific affliction. it characterizes a class of afflictions and doesn't indicate, by definition or by law, that the person isn't in his "right" mind.. it just means the person is antisocial, aggressive, perverted, criminal or amoral

then you bring in the red herring "psychosis", a specific term relating to having suffered a break with reality.(again, shifting the ground of the debate)

equating the two is a false premise. and you know it

your arguement fails..

Now.. Does Maj. Hasan deserve due process? By American Law? yes.. of course, he does. anyone charged with a crime does.

I get the feeling you just like arguing against me..

here's a new topic..

"The sun rises in the east"

no legalistic retort? no more idiomatic contortions to try?

I'm disappointed.

Oh my god Raider you finally said something that is correct! Yes the sun DOES rise in the east.

Now back to your argument. You are basing your arguments off JUST the written letter of the issues (generally speaking when I say issues). What you are still not doing and refuse to do, is look at past court history to see what the LAW dictates has to happen in ANY case that involves mental health questionability. The law is very specific in that anyone who possibly suffers from mental health issues has to be evaluated, and deemed sane and capable of standing trial, normally by a PANEL of psychiatrists, not just one, before they can go up in court for trial.

And in the case of Major Hassan, it may well prove that he is NOT competent to stand trial, and that he was in fact not in his right frame of mind when he pulled the trigger. Which means he would face life in an asissted living environment, or for however long it takes for him to come back to the right state of mind, at which point he WILL stand trial for the killings he has done.

That is something else a lot of people are misinformed about. A person who is deemed incompetant to stand trial doe snot get a stay of execution so to speak. The trial is simply postponed until the day that the person CAN stand trial in their right frame of mind, and then if they are fuond guilty, they are sentenced and have to serve their punishment, whatever it may be.

he knew exactly what he was doing..

he was very much attatched to reality. he knew he was about to get on plane and land with his boots in the sand..

he was determined to do whatever he thought was within his means, up to and including murder, clearly, not to get deployed to the sandbox.

If it got him killed, then all the better in mind..

Too bad for him, it didn't.

What's your empathy for this cold blooded killer anyways?

You seem to be bent on the conclusion that he's mentally ill which is as much based on conjecture and hearsay as youlambast others for..

He'll get his due process and then if justice is to be served, he'll get the needle or a straight jacket.. just so long as his perverted, amoral, criminal _ss doesn't ever see the outside of a box again, I don't care whether it's above ground or below..

raiderfan, I hope it's the needle, this guy knew exactly what he was doing. I'm so sick of people making excuses for cold blooded murders or criminals.

Turning his back on fellow soldiers (well they "thought" he was a fellow soldier but he wasn't) is despicable and you're right he should never be free ever again. Preferably underground for all I care. One less vile being off the face of this great Earth.

as a sentient being I am deeply disturbed by this...

Did they not know what they were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan killing people and not killing mosquitoes ?.
Ah.........the hypocrisy.....you think an American life is more worth than the life of another person !.
How sad !.
.

I am not trying to say he IS definitely unequivocably insane or out of his mind. I am trying to get you to admit that the POSSIBILITY that he is out of his mind is there.

I have specifically stated that I am not saying he is crazy nor am I saying he is another Hitler. I am saying I don't have the facts, nor do you or anyone else outside of the government at this point, to make such a decision.

If investigation proves he is another Hitler then I most certainly agree he needs to be punished (though not murdered; I do NOT believe in the death penalty). BUT if they show that he was as much a victim as his victims were, then he needs hel pin that respect FIRST.

that's cool. I'll stipulate you that if it'll make you happy.

I'm not saying there's positively no possibility of his being disturbed.. no one who commits premeditated murder is.. but it's no defense to prosecution to be angry, depressed or what have you.

I object to the notion that he's some kind of victim here.. If we find out he's schizophrenic or bipolar, that's another story.. But I have a hard time going with that theory given his background

Of course, there exists a multitude of possibilities and we don't have all the details..

what we do know.. that morning he emptied his apartment, told his close friends goodbye, spent the morning handing out copies of the Q'uran.. then at some point loaded up a couple pistols, made his way to the processing center, where he vocalized a religious epitaph associated with Islam (and in the context, Jihad) and began to fire into a crowd of unarmed human beings, knowing armed people would show up eventuallty to take him down..

sounds like a suicide mission to me. could be wrong but that's how it looks, prima facie.

It's just unfortunate that the sheriffs deputy that shot him wasn't able to group her pattern a little more tightly. she did an admirable job, though, considering she was being shot at and took one in the leg.

whats this about a sherrifs deputy? I have not seen that report yet, and the first question that comes to mind is what is a sherrifs deputy doing on fort hood, in the first place, let alone in the capacity to engage this guy. She had no authority (dont get me wrong I am all for her opening fire back, but she had no legal juisdiction or authority in the matter).

beg your pardon, it wasn't SD but local PD that helps out with base security, traffic duty and such, apparently. which comes to me as a surprise..

She and her partner were first on the scene and was the one who shot Hasan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6907235.ece

This seems kinda strange to me because here at DMAFB the only time TPD goes onto the base is when someone who is not military drives onto the base and is drunk, the MP's will call TPD to get them.