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| Topic: suicide | |
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Why does the topic of suicide cause discomfort? Where does the discomfort come from? A person choosing to take their own life, is (from the outside looking in) always reflected back on our perceptions...of where the other person's mind was at, how it impacts on us...and others... To choose to stop this existance...is often motivated by pain...either physical, mental or spiritual. I suspect the intense discomfort for those left is based in their own ideas of what they didn't do...an impotence to change the mind of the suided...wrapped up in alsorts of mindsets about religions, the afterlife, the very real shadow of death of this human body that is cast over all of us. Speaking for myself, I think it's an uncomfortable topic for me on a purely selfish level. The thought that someone I loved was in so much pain and I either failed to see or could do nothing is something that saddens me. Also, the thought that I will now have to live without that person in my life, and not through some random thing but by a deliberate choice, again perhaps selfishly, it saddens me. |
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Someone earlier brought in the issue of free will as it relates to suicides. There is / was a free will thread, topic, and it is generally agreed there that free is "unrestricted", which some used to say that "free will" is a power to act despite reasons and despite causes and despite rational thinking. So I wonder how many happy, healthy, well-adjusted men, children and women have committed suicide due to the fact that they had free will which helped them come to the decision, spontaneously if you like, certainly freely, to kill themselves. Ummm, I'm never considered free will as a power to act despite reasons, causes, and rational thinking. As a matter of fact, I'd say it was the opposite. You are allowed (and should!!) to reason, and think things through, and make decisions as best as possible from the knowledge at hand. Someone telling me I can't do this but can provide no reason, means they are incompetent and don't need to be telling me something. Someone who can tell me why I shouldn't, and give me reasons that allow me to make my decision in my own way are who I would listen to. Right, but if your will always considers all possible reasons that are available at the time before it makes a free choice, and if it always makes the best choice according to the available knowledge on the choices presented to him, then where is the freedom? I mean, if the guy only chooses the best choice, and always, which he would be an idiot not to, then his choice is guided by his reason, which essentially takes away the freedomness of his will. ===== If his choices are emotional, based highly on emotion, like impulse buying or murder or suicide, that would not be made freely either, that choice, as his choice would be dictated by his emotions. Again, the will would not be free, only appear to be free. ----- All or most choices are a result of emotions and reason together, so these two types of determining factors are what shape a decision or a choice. In this case again, the freedomness of will does not exist, since his choice is dependent on his judgement and evaluation that were both dependent on his emotional and rational logic. ----- This is why I am unconvinced that your claim "Ummm, I'm never considered free will as a power to act despite reasons, causes, and rational thinking. As a matter of fact, I'd say it was the opposite. You are allowed (and should!!) to reason, and think things through, and make decisions as best as possible from the knowledge at hand." has any room for any freedom of will. Indeed, if will was free, it would make us behave against our reason and against our emotions. (Aside from this, and please don't reply to this here, but on the "free will" topic, if I may please ask you: )But we never behave that way, and that is why I say there is no such thing as "free will". |
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