Someone earlier brought in the issue of free will as it relates to suicides.

There is / was a free will thread, topic, and it is generally agreed there that free is "unrestricted", which some used to say that "free will" is a power to act despite reasons and despite causes and despite rational thinking.

So I wonder how many happy, healthy, well-adjusted men, children and women have committed suicide due to the fact that they had free will which helped them come to the decision, spontaneously if you like, certainly freely, to kill themselves.

In Canada suicides are not criminals, like I said above, but here they still go to hell. That has not been changed by any of the Christian church authorities.

In fact, a suicide is not supposed to be buried in a Christian cemetery in Canada.

I completely see where you're coming from. I suffer from depression myself at times. People should do their best to prevent it, but when it happens, it happens. I've had friends who've chosen that option and I don't hate them for it, or blame them. I could really argue both sides here. But err on the side of life and hope.

It sure was fooling me. Thanks for straightening my perception out.

Those who speak of a suicide going to hell are contradicting their religion..
If God truly knows us, our troubles, God then knows the heart and mind of a suicide victim...
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I don't believe in accidents. What appears to be an untimely death.. well maybe it isn't? jmo
And I have lost many this way, so I am not making light of it...

That just assumes that everyone's the same doesn't it?

Moreover, why are you focusing on pain?

Maybe they have totally different reasons.

Maybe they couldn't care less about pain. Maybe they just don't feel that life is worth living.

Also you commented on the following:



But they might not be thinking like that at all. They might be fully aware that a lot of people have it even worse than they do. How does that help matters?

If tons of people are drowning in a cesspool does that make it any better than if only one person is in that situation?

I think there are a lot of really good reasons for suicide.

For example, if I had been taken from my homeland to be enslaved by another people I would have committed suicide rather than become a slave.

Does that sound like a bad thing to do? I don't think so. I think that would be a very heroic thing to do. If everyone who was ever taken as a slave committed sucide people would quickly realize that slavery can't be made to work and then it wouldn't be possible to enslave people.

I find it extremely ironic how we can send soldiers into war to die for freedom and call them heroes, but if someone commits suicide for the sake of freedom we call them cowards.

It's utterly absurd.

There is actaully a web site that invites people to commit suicide for the good of mankind. They say that it's an honor to contribute to lowering our grossly over-populated planet.

Sounds like a good plan to me. I think far more people should be doing it.

As far as I'm concerned, something that is far worse than suicide are those who judge others who do it. If people weren't sticking their big noses in everyone else's business maybe other people wouldn't be so anxious to commit suicide in the first place.

As I approach old age with poor health I sure wish our society had made provisions for easy euthanasia.

One of the things that I often think of is that I might be wise to commit sucide whilst I still have the ability to take my own life. If I wait until I'm so sickly that I can't even terminate myself, then I'll be stuck having to die a long slow agonizing death simply because other humans aren't compassionate enough to perform a mercy killing.

Why people are so bent on insuring that elderly sickly people suffer to the very end is beyond me. Seems extremely inhumane to me.

Religious people often make God out to be a monster.

Far too many people use religion as an excuse to spread hatred and animosity in the name of God.

It makes me want to puke.

If God was as nasty as religious people claim it wouldn't be a God at all but a totally insenstive heartless demon.

The last two posts, very well stated... agreed!
I will vomit with you

awwwwwwwww such happiness over such a sad topic....

Washington State now has a medically assisted suicide law for terminally ill people. There are stringent criteria, of course, but doctors can now help people take their own lives. I don't know the details, it is reasonably knew, but I have heard talk about it. I think it is a good law as long as the person wanting to use it is still of sound mind and can make the decision themselves. Some diseases have horrid endings like Lou Gehrig's where the people lose the ability to swallow and basically drown in their own mucous, and there are so many others.


I don't believe in suicide for people battling depression and feel they should get help. I always think about the family they leave behind, their children, spouse, parents, etc., what an awful thing to do to their family. It is all the more reason to get help and fight the depression and continue living, in my opinion, anyways.

So many have stated that suicide is a selfish act... to think of those left behind. I have been one left behind to clean up the mess... so to speak, a suicidal person is only thinking of ending their life here... not anything or anyone else. I don't believe they are intentionally hurting others..
I think it's good to have the assisted death for those terminally ill..
and Kovorkin (sp) went to jail for it...

I sense you don't believe in terminal depression.

People who commit suicide due to depression and do it successfully are said to have suffered of terminal depression.

Why are you on one hand supportive of euthanasia of terminally ill people, but not of terminally depressed people? I see no logic in that.

The terminally cancerous etc. people also leave loved ones behind, children who may not be able to take care of themselves, etc.

I am flabbergasted and can't see at all why the exclusion of terminally depressed people from the list of termially ill people suffering from diseases different from depression. Why only the latter should be able to enjoy the benefits of facilitated suicide?

I have battled depression since I was a kid so I know about depression very well. I would never commit depression as I had a daughter to raise and would not do that to her. I now have grandkids and I would not leave them that legacy. I want to be around to watch them grow up. I still battle depression daily, but because of the grandkids maybe I work harder at not letting it beat me down. Maybe since I have had it for maybe 53 years of my life, I have developed some coping skills of some sort, I don't know, but when I was younger, I couldn't do it as it would have hurt my grandpa, he loved me, my parents were indifferent, but I knew it would hurt grandpa so I forced myself to go on living. Then married, had a daughter and such. I have always forced myself to work to support myself and my daughter and help support the grandkids. I have thought of suicide often, sometimes daily, but refused to give in to it because of what it would to do my family, especially my now young grandchildren.

I have had suicide plans since I was maybe 10 years old, but have not and will not allow myself to act on them for the reasons stated above.

on of my good friends said she wanted to take all her pills and kill herself (this just happend a few weeks ago)


i think if a person wants to do something so irreversible its a cry for help and their mind and heart aren't in the right place and she was deeply religious and dont think letter take all those pills and not picking up the phone would have been the right choice.

shes been through hell and back but are mutual friend died and she was having some family related issues.


but im sorry no matter what kind of hell and pain ive been through im going to stay alive to the bitter damn end so i can hear the birds and feel the wind and the sun on me.then when i take my last breath from natural causes,then i can truly be allowed to rest in piece

I don't believe most people understand the level of physical and emotional pain that living with un-relenting depression is like. Not all depression is " oh boo hoo I am bummed out today" for some it is a chronic pervasive void where the senses are deprived in some areas and hyper responsive in others that makes for a truely miserable existence. It is a pervasive torture of the mind body and spirit.

I believe in a merciful God that gives me choice to determine the quality and value of my life regardless of how others might view it.

Any death is traumatic for family and friends but I don't live or end my life simply to make someone else happy. I refuse to give anyone that power over me.

I personally don't see a well planed suicide as that selfish or morally wrong. Illness and Death is messy and we leave a lot of stuff behind when we die unexpectedly. If you choose your time you can make it as realatively drama free as possible. At least make your wishes know and don't draw in rescue people in a big rescue attempt.

Birth gives us no control but choseing when and where and how you are going to die.

I sit here aghast at the number of people a few of you have known who commited suicide. I have known of 3 in my community in my life but I've never known anyone personally who did. What a load on your shoulders to have a family member or friend pull that. Yikes.

From a religious standpoint I believe this way: There are those who are meant to sacrifice themselves. We used to make human sacrifices to the gods, suicide is, IMO, just another way of doing that. My Goddess is kind and loving and understanding, She gave me free will to make the choices I do every day and will welcome me home no matter how I end up there.
Having suffered through depression that was debilitating I OFTEN contemplated it and have attempted it twice. I wasn't being selfish, I honestly and deeply believed that my friends and family would be better off without me around. My life was in shambles, I was making everyone around me miserable. I don't encourage suicide, but at the same time I don't judge those who attempt it or succeed at it either.
I've had friends who did it and while it hurt being left behind to deal with it, I felt that they were free. I don't view it as a selfish act at all.
If you're never hit rock bottom you've no right to judge. Am I glad I'm still here and the attempts failed? Most of the time yes. Some of the time, no.

We are all connected. When a person reaches the point that they feel suicide is the only answer the fault is placed on us all. Life is a miracle of magic and it can not be explained simply, whether you believe in God or Evolution it doesnt matter we are here. To hurt yourself is to hurt others as well as to hurt others hurts yourself. To continue on this course of greed,power, and persecution will ultimately be the end of us as a species. Think of what we could achieve if we all focused on uplifting each other through a better knowlegde of ourselves and others while using our collective powers towards traveling this infinite universe and understanding life. So should a person have the right to commite suicide? I think we all are already.

I just want to thank everyone for their perspectives in this, an all-too painful topic for most people. I think it's clear that suicide is not so black and white as it appears. I know that a lot of what I've read here has given me new perspectives and I appreciate that. And, I also appreciate the fact that suicide is a highly-charged topic, morally, religiously, emotionally and yet everyone here has spoken so respectfully. It's not that common here in Mingle and it's a nice thing to see.