Many claim that prayer works; that is, our thoughts/wishes/good intentions created by our minds/soul can affect the universe. Some scientific studies have been done to try and see if this claim is valid. One of these studies is Dr. Emoto's study of the effects of "prayer/thought" on crystal formation in water. Other studies have been discussed in the book, "Measuring the Immeasurable: The Scientific Case for Spirituality".

Do you think science will be able to measure the immeasurable?; can it show that prayer works or does not? Should science try to show this, or should it remain a mystery? Does our subjective determination that some crystals are "beautiful" or "ugly" be a valid argument for or against prayer?

What are your thoughts on scientific study of prayer?

I think its bold, and I would love to see the challenge, and results. Why not?


A christian~

As long as it is properly done and with rigorous peer review I see no problem with such tests.

As an atheist I find it very interesting.

For me, from a scientific point of view, I feel the very first thing that would need to be done is to define the very concept of 'prayer' as clearly as possible.

In fact, if I were to do this I would come up with quite a few definitions, off of which I feel, are extremely important and quite different concepts.

For example, one definition of prayer might simply be to make a request of a personified Godhead.

Another definition might be to praise a personified Godhead. From my point of view these two concepts are already different and could produce different auras.

Also, what about meditation? Is that prayer? Many people believe that it is.

There are many different forms of meditations. And many people who mediatate may not even think of it in terms of 'prayer'.

It seems to me that the first thing that would need to be established is whether simple moods and mental states of mind have any affect on things.

If that is actually shown to be the case, then woudln't the term 'prayer' be somewhat superfluous and thus meaningless to the results.

I mean, before a 'prayer' could truly be consider 'prayer' from a religious point of view wouldn't it need to be shown to only have affect on things when done by religious people?

Also, if this words with all religious people from all religions, then what does that say about any specific claims that might be made in the doctrines of their religion concerning jealous Gods, or false Gods?

In short, I would almost totally reject the whole idea of a study focused on the term 'prayer' and just focus on a study that tries to establish if moods and mental states of meditation, etc, have effects.

If during that study it was seen that only religious people who 'pray' are affecting things whilst no one else does, then perhaps that would merit focusing in on the idea of 'prayer'.

Otherwise the very term 'prayer' would just a really poor and misleading label for 'meditation'.

Abra I think you are over thinking this one.

All I would need to study this is two things.

A claim of capability.
A detail of what the person expects to happen.

Then we could create a protocol to test for the listed manifestation.

So if someone could provide an example claim . . . we could get started.

If the claim is that people who are prayed for heal faster, then people who are not prayed for, we would not even need to define prayer, we would just need people who think they can heal via whatever techniques they call prayer.

Once they detail the techniques we can control for normal physiological effects.

I was responding to the following:



I don't think this has anything to do with the subject of what people are actually praying for.

This particular experiment really has to do with the affects of a person's aura (or presence) on their immediate surroundings (like the formation of cyrstals in water that is very near their personal space whilst they are "praying").

By this experiment you could be praying that your dog gets well. You form very pretty cyrstals and Dr. Emoto jumps up and down with excitment that the experiment was successful.

You then go home and find your dog dead. But your "praying" still formed pretty crystals!

Do you see the problem with this experiment?

I don't even think this is an experiment about 'prayer' at all to be perfectly honest about. It's an experiment about how a person's arua affects their environment. And nothing more.

I think a study could be done evaluating the length of days stay in a hospital of those prayed for vs not. I think there would need to be a standardized prayer. The prayer would need to be positive/affirmative/thankful as opposed to pleading/begging because there are claims that these are most effective (? are they ?). Then, compare that with results from the months before the study began.

There are some problems, though, with studying prayer. The first is, is it ethical to pray for a group of people and not others (if there were a control group)? Another problem arises if the outcomes are worse after prayer - do you stop the study? - and would this have ethical ramifications? Also, do you let the people know they are being prayed for (could this affect outcomes, ie just knowing one is prayed for may help in healing)?

There are some factors that would be hard to control, such as, are the people praying or just reading words and not really into it? Should we have experts pray, or just anybody who can read a prayer? Also, should the people who pray know the person or be strangers? There are claims that prayer is more effective coming from someone who knows the person (? are they?). Also, how about the relatives/friends/congregation who are praying outside of the study - do their prayers count - and if so, how?


I would love to see more studies done on prayer. I think Dr. Emoto's study is very interesting, but I think it is subjective. And, has it been reproduced??

This may be off the topic a little, but they are now discovering ways to study mind-body biofeedback in an individual using all sorts of fancy gadgetry - some are showing how a person can control heat rate,temp,body functions through meditation/mental states. Who knows, maybe in the future they will come up with some sensitive gadgetry that could test mind/thought effects at a distance. It will be interesting to see what the future brings in this area.

You would probably not want them to know... Else how would you difrentiate between those that can (unknowing) heal themselves and 'prayer'.


I would love to see more studies done on prayer. I think Dr. Emoto's study is very interesting, but I think it is subjective. And, has it been reproduced??



I would like to see a study done on the correlation of 'prayer' verses 'wishing' or 'willing' changes (healing or otherwise).

What is the measure of 'working' ?

As an atheist, I believe that "prayer helps people heal faster" and "prayers helps people to achieve realistic goals in life".

The first may be primarily by shifting the activity of the praying person's nervous system, from 'sympathetic' dominant to 'parasympathetic' dominant, which helps people to heal.

And the second can help engage their subconscious mind in a constructive way to aid them in their goals.