If you had the responsibilty of creating a 'moral' code or laws, for a
newly developing society. What 10 things would you include.

ONLY ONE RULE: You can not use anything that would as the US Bill of
rights says - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Go for it. Let's see how closely related our morals really are.

So you can't use anything from the Bible either?

i'm lost already

great topic...i am busy with it...see ya in a few weeks !

ya know there was this cooking show, and the cooks were rivals and they
were given random stuff to create a meal with and had to come up with
something interesting and beautiful and delicious....


i have been working on a manifesto of sorts for years now...and i have
alot of ingredients for a menu ....of many courses.... but when i put
them all together they beg for distinction...like foods of different
cultures...i would not eat sushi with goulash for instance........ so is
it with morality and moral codes...


did you know that the Rwandan war was an ethnic conflict?? the 2
tribes were mostly Roman Catholic and religion ...where was their
religion then?
religion seems to be a tool for keeping people under control....fear
ridden, threatened to damnation unless one embraces the lord....well
when you already live in hell ,damnation feels unbearable...belief is
useful with the poor because they have everything to gain from
believing, but the richer people become the less they need god or feel
responsible to any morality.


this is just my observation within the realm of my experience



back to moral codes.....see ya in a while!!

hey everyone ...i am taking some time with this....so go ahead and
post....


lol



it's been a cool thought process...

From my point of view only the golden rule would be required.

If it fails to be of use then any other moral system would be redundant
because the people would clearly be hopeless.

In truth, I wouldn’t want to have the responsibility of creating a moral
code for society. I would decline the offer for that position. If
people don’t naturally know how to behave themselves making rules is a
waste of time. They would just break them anyway.

Trying to teach morals to immoral people is like trying to get a cat to
play ‘fetch the bone’. It just isn’t gonna fly.

yea i would have to agree with the last post. As I believe the word of
Yahweh as truth I would not even think of changing what created us. to
do so would be trying to be like the Most High and we all know who is
trying that. i know this is just a study to make us think but i would
not try. (IMO) have fun though. Miles

JP and board, you can use any thing that you might find in religion as
long as it does not uphold or defame any religion. For example, you
could use "Do unto Others as you would have done to you".

Bl8ant, I find I agree with your post and see your points much the same
as you. I can not wait to see what you might have to offer.

Abra, I'm just a bit surprised. Have you no convictions. Have you
given up on the ideology of creating better social structures?

Miles, What moral codes from your belief system, minus upholding the
belief system itself, whould you like others to follow? Surely there
are morals and values within you faith whose limitations are not bound
by a belief in God. What would you offer to make a more accepting,
peaceful society?

Red, your thread is haunting me!!!

I have pondered for half the night, and looked at many angles, and
unfortunately, the moral codes that 'feel' appropriate, will have little
effect with the vast volume of people globally today.


(A little insight, to my dilemma)...I was fortunate enough to spend a
lot of time with an Indigenous Australian elder for just over 20 years,
and the 'ways', the moral codes, of the Indigenous peoples, from time
immemorial to here, feel appropriate.

Caretakers of their lands, family elders managed, and oversaw, their
lands, their people. Transient and family orientated, they had no
ownership, only custodialship, of their country.

The indigenous worked in with their natural environment, and used each
season's abundances as primary food source, always mindful of leaving
plenty to rebreed, replenish for the next season. The whole 'village'
worked at food gathering, they ate as a clan, men had clearly defined
roles, and so did women, and each interdependent on each other.


Men were acknowledged for their strengths, as were women, and were
necessary parts to the whole.

The whole 'village', family, raised and educated the children, the
matriarchs managed squabbles, and inhouse disagreements, the elderly,
the infirm, the handicapped, were honoured, and given revered positions,
supported and well cared for.

With no ownership came no greed, and if it did occur, was swiftly
managed.

Families 'married' into other families, the whole 'families' worked
together to support the new couple and their children, and given
encouragement and support. Until to this day, most Indigenous have
family in every mob, so have effectively become one 'family', which is
how I was educated with the workings of the families.

Violence was managed swiftly also, and at times could appear quite
harsh, but always appropriate to the 'crime'.

The Indigenous were, and to a degree, still are, matriarchal. The whole
lynchpin to their society, I feel, is that the matriarchs, and the male
elders are respected, as the 'family's' survival depended on it,
respected as their word was law...their decision was final.

Everything was connected to the land, and the skies, the seasons,
everything. Their culture, their beliefs, their 'religion', all of
it...they are so conscious of where they place their feet, and what
'footprint' they left behind, as it would impact them in the next
season.


Ten moral attributes to manage a society? Sheesh...can I pick an easier
society?

This modern one is not so easy.

Red wrote:
“Abra, I'm just a bit surprised. Have you no convictions. Have you given
up on the ideology of creating better social structures?”

Well, you did say that we could only set up a code of morals without any
respect to dictating a ‘religious’ ideology.

As long as people are hell bent on believing in an eternal God and an
eternal afterlife there isn’t much sense in trying to get them to give
this brief life much respect.

If I were starting a brand new society I would try to get them to
worship mother earth as having given birth to them. I would try to
instill in their minds that all living creatures are their “brothers and
sisters” including all other humans even if they are from other tribes
or races. Only then would you have a society that was worth working
with. As long as they think of God as being an external Santa Claus in
the sky they are going to view themselves as being egotistically
separate from everything else. Any hope to instill good morals in
people who think like that would be futile. Why bother wasting your
time?

i love the feeling sticking 9 inch nails through my eye lids and red hot
nails uner my finger nails and whipping my self till blood flows freely
till im almost dead then give my self a good belt with 5,ooovolts of
electricity to revive my self i love it thanks abra for the golden rule
i think i might become a believer and start workin on my brothers and
sisters.

This is why I added the following disclaimer KariZman:

"If it fails to be of use then any other moral system would be redundant
because the people would clearly be hopeless."

Some people are just hopeless nut-cases. Trying to write any kind of
moral code for those people is a total waste of time.

There do exist hopeless people in this world.

some people ya reckon abra how about the vast majority.

I think the vast majority of people are pretty nice.

Societies wouldn’t be nearly as stable as they are if that wasn’t the
case.

I think the real key to maintaining a good society is to keep it small
and focused on family units. And to also keep it focused on
back-to-basics agriculture. Not to imply that technology shouldn’t be
used. But any technology should be greatly respected and appreciated,
and not just treated like a throw-a-way commodity.

Most of our modern day problems are due to overcrowded cities, a
dependency on commercialized farms, and a total disrespect of our
technological advancements. We take technology for granted. And the
manufactures base their production on a greed for mammon, and not for
the betterment of humanity.

How could all those ‘morals’ be written into a 10 commandments?

Thou shalt love the universe
Thou shalt strive to know the world
Thou shalt not take the earth for granted
Thou shalt not take they neighbor for granted
Thou shalt not take human intelligence for granted which includes
technology
Thou shalt not place superstition above intellectual inquiry
Thou shalt not commercialize food production
Thou shalt not invent commercial TV and instead thou shalt watch PBS
Thou shalt treat everyone as thou wish to be treated thyself
If thoust beist a sadomasochist thoust shall ignore the previous
commandment, and instead treat people how you know they would like to be
treated. Don’t be afraid to ask!

Jess, That clearly is an ideal society, wouldn't that be a dream.
No ownership. Everyone who works or the elders who have value based on
their wisdom, will all be fed and cared for and sheltered. Alas, as
Abra pointed out in a following post, this would be a small society, and
obviously one whose belief systems are not in conflict.

Abra your last post, you finally posted your 10. Perhaps in jest,
perhaps to show the irony of considering such a thing, but truthfully, I
find your list a very good one, even the humor or witt, you provide
within it, would serve as a moral - something like, don't take it life
so seriously.

Really appreciated these posts. Hope to see more, I think everyone has
this idea of how people should act in a society, this is a good chance
to see if others think the same way.

It's a good question, but I think I'm not leading material.
I would be afraid of either giving people not enough freedom,
or too much of it.
I don't seem to be able to find the proper balance here.

YO!!! James... i am still busy hahhahaa


but what i get from part of this process is that i have to look at the
big picture.... what has caused the deteriorization of morality where
does it genuinely come from and why is it not present in everyone...it
has a component of genetic predisposition that is influenced and
developed as a learned behaviour.....


in short...maybe this is how we invented religion as a mechanism to
insure a dicipline structure to support morality.... children are not
moral it is taught but why should we be moral? because we enjoy how it
feels or because we will go to hell?


which is more effective? well when it comes to killing the bastard in
bed with your wife it feels really great to annihilate the jerk.... but
how moral is that actually.... c'mon ....really... unless you didn't
want your wife anymore anyway...lol


ok i am rambling ...back to the desk....

ok ok ok .....i spelled disciplined incorrectly



i was never very good at discipline

OH ALEX YOU R A NAUGHTY GIRL I DONT THINK ILL BE EVER ABLE T FORGIVE
YA

ahhhhhhhh punish me!!! lmao!! sadism and masochism are born...how
moral we are all becoming.....lol



i would so rather be sitting round a table for this discussion!