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| Topic: Are we Arrogant? | |
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It doesn't matter which of the 291 countries you go to, you will have people of all kinds of nationalities who are arrogant. Yes Americans are arrogant, but no less or more then Europeans or other people from other countries. I think the arrogance is a given myself, where the differing of feelings about all this comes is in whether or not we should be apologetic about it. That's where I had problems with his speech, but when I was finally able to see the entire speech I realized that he was not really being all that apologetic and he used other terms to describe what Europe had done, as well as implying that they too were being arrogant. It is also pretty apparent that he was speaking more about our foreign policy over the last eight years rather than the American people or our overall history. In the way he said thing he took a pretty good jab at Bush and as much as I dislike I don't think that's appropriate. May we find a way to ensure diplomatic understandings without the resort to war. This will ensure peace and prosperity for everyone. I think the tour made a good step toward that ends. I just still think it could have been done better with out leaving ourselves open for so much criticism. Considering what Bush and his administration did for our country in the past 8 years, a verbal jab was minor, and bit of good measure considering how the rest of the world felt about Bush. Not mentioning him at all would have seemed strange as I am sure people need some affirmation that he is NOT Bush when it comes to world view, even if he might have things in common with policy. Which is probably my personal issue with Obama. Didn't say Bush didn't have it coming, just saying it's not done. It is not generally good for our countries reputation to do that. And it puts the current president in a light that really doesn't look that good to world leaders. But it was measured and he got away with it so, so be it. Actually I think Obama is quite gutsy, considering that he's not stupid and knew that there would be those that would see it as arrogant, I for one am not a bit worried about the kind of criticism of Obama, compared to the criticism of Bush and his admin. Well compared to bush Bozo the Clown would be an improvement, Bush wasn't just greedy and a poor leader he was an idiot. |
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Do Americans know and apply the definition of fair and equal human importance? I have yet to see it in my life time. ar⋅ro⋅gant /ˈærəgənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA –adjective 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official. 2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims. First, he did not really say Americans or arrogant. Second I think most everyone agrees we are arrogant. And three the problem, had the accusation been true, isn't whether or not we are but should he be apologizing for it. If he had in fact done what the OP said he did, I would be very bothered by it. It would be something a president should just not do. |
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Obama's comments, are more for diplomacy than anything else. You don't gain cooperation from people by telling them or making them feel like you think you're superior to them. I think his words were more to mend the damage that Bush did to America's reputation in the world. I think arrogance is when you laud the things you did right while making excuses and not taking responsibility for the things you did wrong. Arrogance would be the US taking sole credit for winning WW2 or saying that Europe should be so grateful to us without acknowledging that maybe those other countries lost lives and sacrificed as well. It would be arrogant to think we went over there to save Europe when we did not enter the battle until Pearl Harbor. It'd be to forget the many many sacrifices of the Russians without whom, the war would not be won, they lost at least 20 million people (nearly 10 million military) all told they lost nearly 14% of their total population. By comparison we lost .32%. We should be proud of what we did, but not forget that others also fought and died. There are both arrogant and humble americans, as is the case in any other country. Thank you, you put said what I wanted to say only better. |
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I wonder how many americans would get mad if the French were constantly telling us that they won our revolutionary war? It's like if you saw some guy getting beat up by a bully and you beat the bully up. The guy will probably be grateful and like you quite a bit, they'll think your a great person, maybe you become friends and hang out. Then you remind the person for the next 60 years that you saved their ass...at some point it'll get old and the guy will simply hate you. The difference between arrogance and confidence is the same in this regard as it is when talking about people. An arrogant person talks about all the great things he did, a confident person lets others talk about all the great things he did. Excellent point... |
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Many MANY people around the world do think of America, and especially the American government as being arrogant. I am sure America does have a lot to apologise for. I am also sure that America has a lot to be thanked for as well. Just like Great Britain, and just like many other countries. I dont think its going to do your nation any harm if Obama is apologising for certain past events(not that i looked into what exactly he was apologising for on this occasion). Good on him. America often comes across as thinking 'We are the most powerful country so we dont give a F'. You ARE the most powerful, but you aren't the only power, and you dont have absolute power over everything. You are accountable for when things are not done right, and you should definately admit to and apologise for things when that are done wrong. As should every country. I am an American and I am not the only American that believes as you do.... |
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 Let's get real around here for Pete sakes. America has been good bad and indifferent down through history, and remember that we all started out in Europe. Those who think Obama is saying something untrue just have to look at their own posts to prove we can be arrogant and we have been. Wanna pretend we are perfect and better than everyone else, go ahead..... Even if Obama said it he isn't telling Europe anything they didn't already know, he was just honest about it. Boo it's not really a question of whether or not we are, I think we all know Americans on the whole are arrogant about our stance in the world. The problem is whether or not we should be apologetic about it. I do have problems with that, and if he actually had been as apologetic as he's been portrayed I'd be pretty unhappy with him. But if you take what he said within the context of the speech it's less like he's being apologetic about it and more like saying "Hey I'm the bigger man (country in this case) I've made my mistakes and I can admit it, now here's your mistakes, so get over it and let's work together". I still didn't care for it but I do understand his purpose. Hi Davey, I certainly don't want to try to change your way of thinking on this, but I like the fact that he had the guts to say what he felt, and he's not alone in thinking it. I know people close by that don't like him and didn't' disagree with what he said. They just didn't like hearing that we Americans are capable of dishonesty. Well duh, that is no secret anymore than our capability of being kind and considerate. When someone is inconsiderate to me, I don't demand and apology but I'll tell that when that same person recognizes they were inconsiderate and apologizes, it does make a difference in how I treat them after that event. Just makes sense. we are no different than any other peoples of the world, we are capable of good and evil. I understand his purpose as well, I have a hard time understanding why some folks feel that being the worlds bully works on any level. We certainly wouldn't tolerate it, why should anyone else. My way of thinking was already changed some simply by hearing the whole segment within context. I do understand your pov, I'm not nearly as bothered by the statements as I was, but I still think he could have done better. Ah yes, of course we could 'all' do better, though we don't have the kind of pressure on us that he has on him to say the right thing, so of course no matter what he says, some will not like it one bit. It is an unwritten rule that presidents to not speak ill of their predecessors, and at this point it is quite obvious that is exactly what he was doing. I don't approve of that. As for " we could all do better" he had a great deal of time to and the best help there is out there to get it right. My opinion he went with the easy way as far as Europeans are concerned and figured he'd take the flack back home. However on the other hand, if he meant to say exactly what he did say, then I have no problem with it either way. Unwritten rules can be broken as other rules. If Bush had been a saint, I might agree with you, but I can't bring myself to at this time. I know what you are saying Davey, but when it comes to Bush, though I am not willing to bash him as I have seen others do, this is mild compared to what he could have said. |
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Let's get real around here for Pete sakes. America has been good bad and indifferent down through history, and remember that we all started out in Europe. Those who think Obama is saying something untrue just have to look at their own posts to prove we can be arrogant and we have been. Wanna pretend we are perfect and better than everyone else, go ahead..... Even if Obama said it he isn't telling Europe anything they didn't already know, he was just honest about it. Boo it's not really a question of whether or not we are, I think we all know Americans on the whole are arrogant about our stance in the world. The problem is whether or not we should be apologetic about it. I do have problems with that, and if he actually had been as apologetic as he's been portrayed I'd be pretty unhappy with him. But if you take what he said within the context of the speech it's less like he's being apologetic about it and more like saying "Hey I'm the bigger man (country in this case) I've made my mistakes and I can admit it, now here's your mistakes, so get over it and let's work together". I still didn't care for it but I do understand his purpose. Hi Davey, I certainly don't want to try to change your way of thinking on this, but I like the fact that he had the guts to say what he felt, and he's not alone in thinking it. I know people close by that don't like him and didn't' disagree with what he said. They just didn't like hearing that we Americans are capable of dishonesty. Well duh, that is no secret anymore than our capability of being kind and considerate. When someone is inconsiderate to me, I don't demand and apology but I'll tell that when that same person recognizes they were inconsiderate and apologizes, it does make a difference in how I treat them after that event. Just makes sense. we are no different than any other peoples of the world, we are capable of good and evil. I understand his purpose as well, I have a hard time understanding why some folks feel that being the worlds bully works on any level. We certainly wouldn't tolerate it, why should anyone else. My way of thinking was already changed some simply by hearing the whole segment within context. I do understand your pov, I'm not nearly as bothered by the statements as I was, but I still think he could have done better. Ah yes, of course we could 'all' do better, though we don't have the kind of pressure on us that he has on him to say the right thing, so of course no matter what he says, some will not like it one bit. It is an unwritten rule that presidents to not speak ill of their predecessors, and at this point it is quite obvious that is exactly what he was doing. I don't approve of that. As for " we could all do better" he had a great deal of time to and the best help there is out there to get it right. My opinion he went with the easy way as far as Europeans are concerned and figured he'd take the flack back home. However on the other hand, if he meant to say exactly what he did say, then I have no problem with it either way. Unwritten rules can be broken as other rules. If Bush had been a saint, I might agree with you, but I can't bring myself to at this time. I know what you are saying Davey, but when it comes to Bush, though I am not willing to bash him as I have seen others do, this is mild compared to what he could have said. That is what I meant by "measured" and why he got away with what he did. If he had not been as popular here he would have had significantly greater problems. To me it was a cheap political trick and beneath a US president. IOW, save it for the campaign trail not a world leaders speech. |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!"
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Let's get real around here for Pete sakes. America has been good bad and indifferent down through history, and remember that we all started out in Europe. Those who think Obama is saying something untrue just have to look at their own posts to prove we can be arrogant and we have been. Wanna pretend we are perfect and better than everyone else, go ahead..... Even if Obama said it he isn't telling Europe anything they didn't already know, he was just honest about it. Boo it's not really a question of whether or not we are, I think we all know Americans on the whole are arrogant about our stance in the world. The problem is whether or not we should be apologetic about it. I do have problems with that, and if he actually had been as apologetic as he's been portrayed I'd be pretty unhappy with him. But if you take what he said within the context of the speech it's less like he's being apologetic about it and more like saying "Hey I'm the bigger man (country in this case) I've made my mistakes and I can admit it, now here's your mistakes, so get over it and let's work together". I still didn't care for it but I do understand his purpose. Hi Davey, I certainly don't want to try to change your way of thinking on this, but I like the fact that he had the guts to say what he felt, and he's not alone in thinking it. I know people close by that don't like him and didn't' disagree with what he said. They just didn't like hearing that we Americans are capable of dishonesty. Well duh, that is no secret anymore than our capability of being kind and considerate. When someone is inconsiderate to me, I don't demand and apology but I'll tell that when that same person recognizes they were inconsiderate and apologizes, it does make a difference in how I treat them after that event. Just makes sense. we are no different than any other peoples of the world, we are capable of good and evil. I understand his purpose as well, I have a hard time understanding why some folks feel that being the worlds bully works on any level. We certainly wouldn't tolerate it, why should anyone else. My way of thinking was already changed some simply by hearing the whole segment within context. I do understand your pov, I'm not nearly as bothered by the statements as I was, but I still think he could have done better. Ah yes, of course we could 'all' do better, though we don't have the kind of pressure on us that he has on him to say the right thing, so of course no matter what he says, some will not like it one bit. It is an unwritten rule that presidents to not speak ill of their predecessors, and at this point it is quite obvious that is exactly what he was doing. I don't approve of that. As for " we could all do better" he had a great deal of time to and the best help there is out there to get it right. My opinion he went with the easy way as far as Europeans are concerned and figured he'd take the flack back home. However on the other hand, if he meant to say exactly what he did say, then I have no problem with it either way. Unwritten rules can be broken as other rules. If Bush had been a saint, I might agree with you, but I can't bring myself to at this time. I know what you are saying Davey, but when it comes to Bush, though I am not willing to bash him as I have seen others do, this is mild compared to what he could have said. That is what I meant by "measured" and why he got away with what he did. If he had not been as popular here he would have had significantly greater problems. To me it was a cheap political trick and beneath a US president. IOW, save it for the campaign trail not a world leaders speech. Oh well, in this case I didn't see it that way, but that's cool, can't agree on everything. |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. As a leader of my people I would bow to NO ONE! PERIOD! |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. As a leader of my people I would bow to NO ONE! PERIOD! Ah ok, gotcha... |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. As a leader of my people I would bow to NO ONE! PERIOD! Well I may consider bowing to show respect in the right environment where mutual respect is being shown. I would never be to arrogant to think that as a leader we are equals. |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. As a leader of my people I would bow to NO ONE! PERIOD! Well I may consider bowing to show respect in the right environment where mutual respect is being shown. I would never be to arrogant to think that as a leader we are equals. The president of this great nation, the world power, is not equal to some Arab leader? You really think that? A hand shake maybe with a smile, but if I bow my legs better be missing! |
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. As a leader of my people I would bow to NO ONE! PERIOD! Well I may consider bowing to show respect in the right environment where mutual respect is being shown. I would never be to arrogant to think that as a leader we are equals. The president of this great nation, the world power, is not equal to some Arab leader? You really think that? A hand shake maybe with a smile, but if I bow my legs better be missing! Other nations are our equals. That is what is arrogant if we believe we are better than others. There is nothing wrong with mutual respect being shown. We are their equals. |
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Edited by
scttrbrain
on
Sun 06/14/09 08:39 PM
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In some countries it is courtesy. Not kiss ass. Such as shaking hands is just a little nasty, don'tcha think? I mean what with all the germs and such. I am no fan if shaking hands but will do it due to respect of the hand that reaches out.
Leader or no leader..respect is respect. Kat |
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I am an American, I think American and act American. If I bow to you, as a representitive of my people, it's not the top of my head you will be looking at!
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If I were the president of this great nation and I bowed before another leader of his people, it would be to pull up my pants after saying "match this!" Ya lost me Sojourning, but could be too close to my bed time. As a leader of my people I would bow to NO ONE! PERIOD! There's nothing wrong with showing respect to another leader, IMO. Look at all of the formalities they had to go through when they met the Queen of England. It's protocol. It's all about respect. |
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I am an American, I think American and act American. If I bow to you, as a representitive of my people, it's not the top of my head you will be looking at! LOL well there is the arrogance that is spoke of. I guess they are right then. |
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I took the bowing thing differently from Sojourning. But as you pointed out Scttrbrain, it's custom in some countries as is shaking hands here. It's not like Obama is kissing someone's feet. Now that I would never do. Isn't bowing a custom in other countries as well?
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