I agree that capitalism is the best system as far as embracing the fact that it is about money, and requiring people produce GDP to make that money. This is how economies grow. This is why i support it. All we need is a desire for people to progress themselves.

I think the problem we are having is a few, very powerful people who got that way using capitalism, got involved in the government where they can control regulations, and manipulate recessions so they can purchase smaller companies for pennies on the dollar. It wouldn'tmatter if the government owned everything at this point. These people are the government. They control the benefits coming from it.

Capitalism isnt the enemy. It's corruption and control.

I have to agree that the government has been run by big business for many many years for their benefit and not the peoples. One only need to look at the history of who is appointed to what when a new election cycle brings in another puppet. I will grant that Obama is at least trying a trickle up theory by attempting to create jobs that hopfully will be the foundation for the creation of more jobs by consumers who will actauly be able to spend money they earn by either building bridges or schools or other projects.

capitalism is an economic model. Democracy is a political model. Communism is a combination of a political/social model and an economic model. Capitalism cannot overtake democracy because they have nothing in common.



I don't argue that it won't create jobs. I argue to the death that it is incredibly inefficient at creating them, but all this spending is doing is postponing the time that we must own up to our mistakes. We're just adding more and more to the sh*t pile and one day, it's going to fall.

The stimulus was nothing that will help long-term. In fact, it's more than likely to hurt long term because of the extra financial burden many of its programs will place on the governments as the funds dry up. Not to mention that infrastructure jobs are very often temporary, as in when the road is built, there is no more job.

The stimulus job "creation" is a mirror of the past 6 years or so where we saw "growth." It was artificial then and this is even more artificial now.

These people, who had corrupted this government, are not the problem. For two reasons:

1. If the government wasn't comprised of lowest denomination of people, it wouldn't be corrupted, no matter how hard anyone could try. The fault lies not with the corrupter, but with the corrupted. Can I corrupt you? I doubt it. You know the best, of course. This is a common misconception, to apply the blame to the corrupter. It is not unlike, however, the application of a blame for an accident to cars proceeding on green, so that the one running red can be excused.

2. This is the reason founding fathers gave government no regulating powers. Think about it. People are weak, and most are trash. I know, I will be shouted at for this, but I care not. Founding fathers knew it too. Therefore, they understood, that to allow any kind of regulative power, is to present an opportunity for this power to be corrupted. An analogy: Let us build a castle of sand. Can we be upset then, that the wave washed it off? No, the blame lies squarely with us, for making a decision that is impractical. Same with corrupted government power. If you were a powerful man, and you saw that the trash is creating a regulative power to steal from you, you might want to consider your options. Since this regulative power represents an attack on you, your best course of action would be to take the power, and turn it to your own advantage, i.e. to use the weakness of your adversary to their disadvantage.

I am saying that capitalism has nothing to do with corruption. Nor does the constitution. Thievery small people always want to take an advantage of those who work harder and learn smarter. Except, the people forget, that they will always lose such war, for their opponent is better by default. To protect the status quo, a reasonable man, then allows no regulative powers to the government. He restricts it to the most basic tasks, such as protecting us from each-other.

very true

I dont think most people are trash in fact the differance between you and a millionair is a million dollars. Some people are born to poverty and raised like animals and end up in jail or whatnot but do a classic role reversal with a blue blood and see what you get.

he said all people are trash and weak. Rich, poor, black, white, everyone is weak. nogames makes a very good point. Capitalism in itself cannot be corrupted because the powers that be regulate based on what they are persuaded to.

Cases in point: financial regulation makes it so only the elite can manipulate the system. The common man has zero idea what many of them do, let alone how to work around the roadblocks. That helps nobody but the elite and there are few hands stealing from the pot. If there were no regulation, everyone would be on a more level playing field (though those elite would still have superior knowledge). This makes many tactics used today obsolete.

In a way, I feel our regulation is largely to blame for what we are experiencing. We are going overboard and as I've stated before, regulation is never pre-emptive.

Madisonman- I'm impressed. You're a contributing political reporter for Rolling Stone magazine, a columnist for Men's Journal, and the author of two books? As per YOUR personal request "Questions I'd like "Teabaggers" to answer". How clever of you... masking your past posts/topic threads with the spelling/typing of a 4th grader. Brilliant ruse indeed. Here you gave the impression that you were just some typical union slug all this time. Kudos for your courage in submitting your literary resume' and credentials.

1. I don't know if the concept of modern day tea parties even existed during the Bush administration. If they did, I nor the vast American public were aware of them. Perhaps people were partially horrified by debt and spending... isn't this why people voted for "Change"? It appears this isn't the kind of change a lot of people wanted afterall as indicated by participation in these "tea parties". You of all people should be complimenting and commending people for participating and taking an active role in speaking out.

2. "Outraged by the bailouts". There's an old adage "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". The first one who fooled us once in regards to the bailouts is gone. The one who is attempting to fool us twice has been notified via these tea parties that some of us aren't going to be allow to be fooled twice. The more things "change" the more they remain the same.

3. There once was a president who boldly proclaimed "Read my lips, no new taxes". He lied, and subsequently removed from office in the next election. We now have a president who boldly proclaims "no pork" in legislation. A lie. Are you suggesting we do not hold this current president to the same standards? Not unless you are to be considered a hypocrit with double standards.

4. As per if I would have been protesting if this had been Bush's budget. Maybe. Liberals don't have a monopoly on protesting.

My question, "Why do liberals insist on living in the past"? As per the "If" hypothetical questions. What is the adage again? "If if's and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry (insert politically correct individual holiday of choice)". In regards to your ambition in life- exquisitely appropriate for a liberal... jealousy of someone making more money than themselves. Incidently, the feeble attempt at humor wasn't overlooked... just dismissed as inane.

Organic I am far more than a union thug I am a single father with sole custody of two wonderfull kids who are active in sports and have alot to be proud of. I own a home in the country so they have room to breath these boards are simply a pass time for me. Anyhow these silly little tea parties are laughable as stated by the author of the original post to wich a link was provided if you missed it, sorry if you were confused as to whome the author was. as I stated above these silly little things are simply a propaganda effort by the right to grasp some kind of grass roots movement being they are out of power and will be for a long long time. Had the Neocons done their jobs for the last 8 years none of Obamas stimulas would not be needed but the facts are the country has been so broken by 8 years of republicans that desperate measures are needed to stave of a world wide depresion. Do you realy think people are so ignorant as to swallow the same BS twice? Look what they did the first time.

Nogames, Andrew, you bring up valid points. I cannot help but see the cold hearted reality as well.

But, to be fair, i would have to say both the people, and the corruptors are at fault. Both for having bad morals.

Here is a metaphor:

Lets say people are in a society of thieves, but are given unpickable locks on your doors. The thieves somehow convince these people that the door locks are fire hazzards and shouldn't be used. Suddenly the people wonder why they have less then they did.

Who is at fault?

I say both. The people for being naive and ignorant, and the thieves for taking advantage of them. Honestly this is whati believe.

I also believe you are totally right about our constitution gentlemen. There were important rules in place the got overwritten little by little until we have what we have today. Now the the people are wondering why they have less then they used to. And why it is so much harder to get ahead today.

There is a definite and more comfortable lower class, but that lower class will have a harder time achieving a middle class standard of living than ever before.

The only fatal flaw I see here is that in the lockpick case, you have control over your own lock. Removing it is in fact partly your own fault.

With the loan, there are those that knew (or should have known) they could not afford them. Those are the people who are the equivalent to the victims of your analogy.

However, in society, there are those like myself that have played by the rules. I didn't buy a house. Why? I know I cannot afford a mortgage and college. I prioritized. For many, college can be substituted with new cars, 56" flatscreens, and a designer wardrobe. There was a serious lack of prioritization by much of society. We are the real victims in this because we have no control over anything that caused it. I have been totally responsible in everything I've done and yet, I'm still at 2/3 what my retirement portfolio was a year ago.

hopefully not to derail this topic any more, but this line stuck out to me:

That is my exact feeling on social programs and other regulation that "protects" the lower and lower-middle classes. It does nothing to help them advance, only give them just enough to stay where they are. I guess that's a whole 'nother thread though.

Funny thing is, as I see it, that the ones that the regulation will eventually affect most negatively, are supporting it's advancement the most.

I find this highly ironic, or not. If I look at this from a more philosophical point of view, it is as it should be. The thiefs are punishing themselves. If one desires to be free, he must refuse to steal from others. Such refusal will make life harder, at first. But then, the rage will give way to research, and understanding, which will end up in a way being revealed, of turning it all to your favor.

This is how one may realize, that there is an always a way to win, except when no-one is attacking you.

My feelings on the disenfranchised are if they do not get foodstamps or unemployment or some type of aid they will simply turn to crime rather than see their children starve. We can pay to put them in jail after they leave a wake of victims or we can give them temporary aid, it seems though the republicans prefer to incarcerate being the prisons are being privatised by for profit enterprizes who then can make political contributions at election time.

Brew ha ha: Tea-baggers stand up for, well, nobody quite knows
Conservatives and the Right
by Alan Bisbort | April 23, 2009 - 12:07pm

Tea-baggers stand up for, well, nobody quite knows

Nobody loves a protest as much as I do, but could someone please tell me what this tea-bag brew-ha-ha was all about?

I've read as many accounts as I can about protests around the state and country — most of which were peaceful, commendably — and I'm still confused. As far as I can tell, the protests were mostly about giving Fox News a chance to fulminate and to allow those Americans who've been brainwashed into doing the bidding of "overtaxed" millionaires a chance to blow off steam without the use of their "legal" cache of weaponry.

The take-away that I got from reading the tea leaves was twofold:

1) Protests, any protests, are good for Americans, even when they're weird or wrongheaded, like this one; it's good for young people to be reminded that they have the right to assembly. Just remember that the next time people are assembling for a cause with which you disagree.

2) Right-wingers love simple imagery. Think about it: tea bags. Everyone has them. You can rip them off at some fast food joints, if you're quick about it. They are easy to carry and they have that visceral exoticism that offers a contact high (just sniff those leaves and you are transported...).

The irony about using tea bags as a symbol, however, seems to have been missed by the protesters. Almost all the tea that we drink is grown in countries that have been recipients of America's outsourced jobs: China, India, Korea, Myanmar, Sri Lanka. Tea is also grown, increasingly, in Central and South America, with which we've not been on the best terms the past few years. It's true that American tea companies blend and package their products here, but the actual tea comes from other countries. So, a sudden purchase of a billion tea bags, to use as a right-wing protest tool, only pumps up the bottom lines of other countries.

But I digress. Here in Connecticut, a few thousand people showed up in New Haven, New London and at the state Capitol to hold tea parties on Tax Day. Some guy named "Ziggy" from Waterbury, dressed head to toe in American flags and, in case you missed the motif, waving a huge American flag, demonstrated his patriotism by comparing the duly elected president of the United States to Marshal Tito and Slobodan Milosevic. (Dare I say it?: If you don't like it here, Ziggy, Serbia is calling you home). Another guy was going on about the "fiat currency" of the dollar, the "usurped" U.S. Constitution, and surveillance cameras, which are turning the U.S. into a what Michel Foucault calls a "panopticon." That's a mixed message if there ever was one — citing a snobby French philosopher to augment your American super patriotism.

In short, the tea-baggers' message of dissent was all over the map, but it seemed to have a common theme: Barack Obama. This protest was not about taxes — if it was, then nobody seems willing to admit that Obama has lowered taxes for the vast majority of Americans. This protest was about Obama. Period. Most of the quoted protestors singled him out. For what, it's not clear. For winning the election? "This administration is unconstitutional" was a recurrent motif (as opposed to the last one?), as was the use of terms like "socialist" and "fascist" to describe him.

In Texas, the Republican governor (Rick Perry), after taking part in the Pledge of Allegiance, vowed that his "republic" would secede if things got worse. (Oh please make this happen, Perry! It's downright cruel to tease us like this!).

One comment in the New London Day's coverage summed it up: "Where were these tea party folks when Bush started us on this adventure without a way to pay for it?"
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http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/21429

Nobody loves a protest as much as I do, but could someone please tell me what this tea-bag brew-ha-ha was all about?

^^^^ madison said ^^^^^


I think it was over wether one should hold their pinky out or not while having tea

kinda like which end of the egg to open in Gulliver



it let the pricks in washington know folks are PO'd but It will not really make a difference

Now lots of Tar and Feathers and run 'em all out of town on a rail

that would be a rally worth attending

What you have just admitted to, is that you believe that workers have no worth, whatsoever, if left to their own devices.

Further, you advocate us paying the workers, not because of their worth, but because they should blackmail us. If we don't pay them above their free market value, then they will revolt and turn to crime.

I find this deep held degrading opinion of workers to be prevalent among democrats, except it is very hard to make one to really tell us what he thinks, as you just did.

Just to let you know, in the real world, without help of the government and completely on their own, workers did just fine in free market. They fed their quite more numerous children, and did not turn to crime. They grew a lot richer than their degraded grandchildren (who are in the debt to their ears). They retired on their savings that, if compared to today's "money", would be around 1 to 2 million dollars.

I understand, that this is not something communists want the people to know. Communists want to keep everything revised, so that no one can look back in history and compare the real state of things now and then.

what a long winded line of propaganda I expected better from you no games. unfortunatly their are no jobs at the moment take a good look around able bodied men ready and willing to work cannot find it would you have them starve? I agree times were far better for our g randparents and our parents our standerd of liveing has been erodeing for decades yet you blame the victims? each year the gap between the haves and have nots grows the rich are gettting riher and the poor are getting poorer why do you think that is?

Now lots of Tar and Feathers and run 'em all out of town on a rail

that would be a rally worth attending


Tar and Feathers.....Now your Speakin My Language! I've Been Talkin T&F for about a Month Now

If they are not able to find jobs, then maybe they should have diversified their skills more. If all they know is how to swing a hammer, that's their own damn fault.

That is the additude that put Obama in the white house andrew and I am glad republicans are exposed for the heartless people they are. Be glad some people can swing hammers or repair power lines do all the necessary things that make society possible. We democrats are far more compasionate and that is why we had a landslide victory with more to come.