In 1832 Congress appropriated $12,000 dollars to begin the fight against smallpox in Indian country, 20 years after they did the same for whites. Significantly, actual vaccination expenditures that first year "for smallpox and certain other things" amounted to only $1,786, as opposed to $5,721 for "missionary improvement" and $9,424 for the "civilization of the Indians." One year later, in 1833, actual expenditures were down to $721.

"Civilizing" meant taking children away from their parents at the ages of 5-12 years and forcing them to live without father, mother, sister or brother in missionary schools, if you can imagine that being done to a little child. This practice was not exclusive to the early years of American history but continued up until the mid 1970's in this country. Children were beaten and given forced labor during their stay in school. Participation was "optional" but missionaries controlled the annuities of food and trust money through their relationship with superintendents and the military. Families that did not surrender their children did not receive food or payments that were supposed to be guaranteed to them.

Very young children caught in this situation were brainwashed to treat their parents as savages and barbarians and they suffered terribly under this psychological torture. By this method through several generations, Cherokees, like most Native Americans were stripped of the knowledge of their heritage, religious beliefs and trust of their family supports.

This is why it is called a Red Holocaust and fits the United Nations accords for genocide. Any people whose children are taken from them in order to destroy the religious, spiritual, racial and cultural heritage of that people are victims of genocide.
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-missionary-atrocities.html#Midwest-Missionaries

This is so sad to read this and I am amazed how many people turn their heads to these realities.

This article you show us has happened to the natives in Australia where the children where taken away to become civilized (as they say).

It is ashame and sad that people even today believe this was the right thing to do.

Now...google " all the atrocities done against christians".

Of course, I hope you realize when you post stuff off the internet, that you will almost always get some of man's opinions ,

mixed in with truth on most internet sites....especially when aimed at
Christianity.

Btw,many atrocities thruout history were done by other "religious" people as well... as well as by the unreligious.

Google, The feeding of christians to the lions and other atrocities" , for instance.

But as far as the "religion" goes...

that is what"religion" does to people...

and that is why God isn't interested one darn bit in man made

religion...but wants relationship.

Praying people here will one day get this.

When a man has RELATIONSHIP WTH GOD(which comes

when Jesus comes to live in his heart ) ......

then that man is a CHRISTIAN.

BUT....

When a man just has RELIGION DISQUISED only as Christianity,

(which happens when Jesus NEVER came to live in his heart ) ......

then that man just has RELIGION.


Religion kills.

And condemns.

But

Relationship with God doesn't do this.

Relationship with God ....LOVES.

NOT hates.

But LOVES.

If something is truly Gods will and not mans it will always succeed.

Heh Sharp... I was wondering ...

if I put my head phones on my doggies ears...

how would they react?

Both my dogs LOVE to listen music.

offtopic..I know I know.

Just tired of talking about religion.

I think God is tired of hearing it too.

"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."

Mark Twain

"Operationally, God is beginning to resemble not a ruler but the last fading smile of a cosmic Cheshire cat."

Sir Julian Huxley

"An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated."

Madalyn Murray O'Hair

“Missionarying - that least excusable of all human trades.” Mark Twain in

the North American Review

"The few took advantage of the ignorant many. They pretended to have received messages from the Unknown. They stood between the helpless multitude and the gods. They were the carriers of flags of truce. At the court of heaven they presented the cause of man, and upon the labor of the deceived they lived."

"We find now that the prosperity of nations has depended, not upon their religion, not upon the goodness or providence of some god, but on soil and climate and commerce, upon the ingenuity, industry, and courage of the people, upon the development of the mind, on the spread of education, on the liberty of thought and action; and that in this mighty panorama of national life, reason has built and superstition has destroyed."

"I believe in the religion of reason -- the gospel of this world; in the development of the mind, in the accumulation of intellectual wealth, to the end that man may free himself from superstitious fear, to the end that he may take advantage of the forces of nature to feed and clothe the world."

Robert Ingersoll (Why Am I an Agnostic?, North American Review, December, 1889)

“Somebody should tell us, right at the start of our lives, that we are dying. Then we might live life to the limit, every minute of every day. Do it! I say. Whatever you want to do, do it now! There are only so many tomorrows.”

Pope Paul VI quotes (Italian Pope. 1897-1978)

Morningsong,

One can have a relationship with a God/Goddess/ or just energy without having to follow the pages of a bible and still believe good things will happen to them.

One doesn't have to believe in the Jesus as the savior of our life, forgiving our sins as most christians believe, and what have you to live a productive life helping those in need.

One can believe in more peaceful spiritual idealogies that doesn't have a track record of atrocities. I prefer to do so for then I have a good conscience at the end of the day. Why represent a religion that has a bad track record? This is not my calling and it shouldn't be yours.

Atrocities have happened to all kinds of religious organizations, as well as commited them, but they were commited because of the religion and their statements that influenced the individual to do them in the first place.

I don't consider communism, democracy, or socialism a religion but a political group that tried to do bad things to gain power. In those political groups are many different religions practiced as a whole by the population. So in my opinion this doesn't count.

Now religion organizations that persecute, torture, distort families, and force their belief systems, if it is by prostelyzing or making one feel guilty at the process is a dangerous practice. What makes it amusing is the ones who do it act like they aren't doing anything harmful at all, but showing their love for the religion, but at the same time making you feel guilty or horrible for not joining them in the process. That is in my books a terrible practice to follow.

Now at the present moment the biggest atrocities are the mediterrenean faith based ones that have and are still bringing huge confrontations in this world. I don't think the people who lost family members because of religion idealogies will support your faith in the long run.

So yes religion has also hindered people to learn, explore, and discover further of our planet and universe and have prevented in many cases the advancement of important inventions that could have improved mankind's welfare. Just look into history to see this, as I am not going post a 10 page list of how religion hindered great minds.

So in the end as you mention often about man doesn't have a relationship with the religion, but a relationship with God, well then you are saying follow the relationship with the God of Abraham from the bible. Use his love and set forth in praising Jesus as your savior. You are using the bibles words to achieve this.

Many leaders have done this and end up killing their family members, or innocent lives because of it. The bible is a dangerous piece of work (rather you want to believe it or not) that judges people negatively, especially those who don't believe in this faith system that you so idolize.

In the end if one is spiritual and uses faith to believe in a higher intelligence or a God as you so say it, one can do this without using scriptures written by men who prevent us from living a life accordingly to their minds.

Let us live a life according to our minds and know that if there is something as divine as you mention it to be that it has the intelligence to love all life, doesn't judge negatively, and accepts all practices that deem to preserve life, coexist in peace, and enjoy the time we are given on this planet.

May you find in your lifetime a practice that doesn't have a tainted past, yet a promising future for others to enjoy as well.

I have RELATIONSHIP.

Not Religion.

Relationship comes by becoming born again...born of God.

No one , once born of God, can become UNBORN of God.

And wouldn't want to even if one could.

and so do I, just not the one the bible offers and at the same time I have a good conscience each day.

Man Twists God' Word

For his gain.

Not God.

God does not condone man's atrocities done in His name.

I can clearly see you struggle with this and often truly believe that mankind just doesn't understand the words the bible teaches. Men and Women of great intelligence of the past have dissected the bible inside out. Each with the same conclusion that they don't want to follow a belief system that doesn't offer peaceful coexistence.

Does this mean they are bad because of this conclusion? I don't believe so and many just practice a different idealogy that leads to a different type of faith based relationship that is more peaceful. They wake up satisfied, pleased at what makes them feel good, and strong to take on the challenges of the day. Should they be condemned for not believing in the bible and its rules? I don't think so. They should be praised for thinking for themselves in my opinion.

If you read the bible, many of the writings indicate judgement, conflictions of the past, and problematic issues. Some people don't want to study that. They want to practice pure bliss as I call it. A faith system that offers no judgement, but positive results that ensure a mindful way of life that allows us as a people to coexist in peace. Their minds are clear and have a great conscience each day.

One can also have a relationship with a higher being, if it be a god, goddess, energy, or what have you without resorting to a book that tells you how to live, worship, or live in your life. They too will make it to a better place and they believe others who don't believe in what they personal believe or was taught will also go to a great place. Can you do this?

The relationship with a higher intelligence or a creator can be done without believing in a mediterrenean faith based system.

The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.






ummm..wasn't Hypatia killed by rabid christian mobs in 302ad shortly before they destroyed the Great Library of Alexandria? And wasn't she stripped naked in a public square and her flesh flayed off her bones by cockle shells? And wasn't the reason given "because she had the audacity to be a woman AND a scientist"?

I could be wrong. It's hard to remember that far back...

you scare me

ummm..wasn't Hypatia killed by rabid christian mobs in 302ad shortly before they destroyed the Great Library of Alexandria? And wasn't she stripped naked in a public square and her flesh flayed off her bones by cockle shells? And wasn't the reason given "because she had the audacity to be a woman AND a scientist"?

I could be wrong. It's hard to remember that far back...


You are absolutely correct. It is too bad I say. What if she had lived a few more years undisturbed by such atrocities? What would we could have perhaps learned from this brilliant woman?

(((Some claim or believe that the war on terrorism is more on a war of religion. The Middle East is a area that has been fighting about territorial dispute for thousands of years. The Muslims, The Christians, and the Jews all have something to say to the extreme that eventually they end up blowing each up because of it. )))

Is is not the imposing of ones blinded will that makes men "convert" another's religion to their own? "I'm right your wrong?"~ By what unseen human right does one religion denounce another? Who has that power? Why and how can they justify death of another human as "God's will"? Is it not what the war really is?

That makes two of us. Welcome to Mingle! Its good to have you.

Hmmmm I thought this was "General Religion Chat"

I have a biography on her. Good book.

Though I still believe math is EVIL! Bwahahaha!

K

why thank you. It's good to be here. :>