Oh, I forgot to ask: How does one have a teeny little meth (PROBLEM)?
This question coming from someone that had one of those too. Only it
wasn't teeny.
Kat

" can’t imagine anyone attempting to deny you your experience.

What amazes me is how quick you are to deny them theirs."

I have done nothing of the kind.

"NDE means you almost died right? I didn't almost die, I just had DMT in
my body while I was awake."

What happened to cause this DMT experience? That's what I'm not
understanding from what you wrote.

"So because that was in my body, my body reacted as if it thought I were
dying, so it produced an NDE."

If it produced an NDE, then were you not, then, "near death?"

"Because as I stated before, DMT is released in the body for ONLY 2
reasons. one is during REM sleep, and you remember none of what happens
to you. 2nd is RIGHT BEFORE YOU DIE, you become unconscious and have a
NDE."

True, right before you die, you either have an NDE. Or you have a DE.

"The reason why there was study on DMT is because they noticed when it
is released in the body, with the exception that no one can record it in
there sleep if they don't remember it, but if you have a NDE, some
people can record it, you remember more if you quickly write what you
seen if possible to do so."

I'm not disputing there are certainly chemical changes occurring in the
brain during an NDE.

"They wondered if you experience what you're experiencing because that
chemical is being produced."

I'd say SOME of the experience was chemically induced, but I can assure
you not all of it was.

"So they wanted to see if they were linked. It's a fact that its
released during NDE. which is why I say the facts speak for themselves."

The scientific facts may well speak for themselves. They do not speak
for the entire experience though, they do not speak for that which I
know I went through, that is completely indisputable to someone who
HASN'T LITERALLY had a NEAR-DEATH experience. (caps for emphasis)

"I spoke to people who had NDE to see if what I saw might have been
similar to what they did, and it was simlar from what they told me."

Yours was similar in some ways, but "freakishly different" (from mine
anyway)...for one thing, I never had any fear at all. At the beginning,
perhaps a little "confusion." But the absence of fear, the overwhelming
sense of peace, was prevalent throughout the entire experience.

"The people I talked to said what they remember the most was the white
light."

That was one of the things I remembered, it was not the thing I
remembered the most. It was just part of the whole experience.

"They were revived shortly after that. If they hadn't been, I'm
sure the experience would have lasted longer, and who knows if they
would have even lived had the experience completed."

My experience extended beyond that; I had the impression I was at the
"take it or leave it" part when I was given a choice to either return or
stay.

"The facts speak for themselves I said right? You have an NDE when
you're unconscious right? Well did you think I was saying I was walking
around in the physical world when I said I seen all that stuff?"

I wasn't sure what was going on. I don't recall you detailing the events
leading up to the experience.

Of course not, I was unconscious because of the DMT."

I'm going to have to go back and reread, because I'm not sure what "DMT"
is. Were you given some kind of experimental drug?

Plus. I got the DMT from indigenous people a friend knew.

Ohhh, I see. You're a lot "braver" than I am, Gunga Din.

"We were just told to get as peace of mind as we can and be in separate
rooms. Funny thing is, 2 people in separate rooms, seen the same thing,
at the same time, without being told prior to the experience what we
might see."

What is funny about that? Same with the NDE as a spiritual experience.
To me, it just confirms there's "something" to it.

"Other people who've tried this say that throughout the whole
experience, the same thing happens, but there is a point in the
experience where they think about all the things that are going wrong in
there life, and become aware that they need to be changed, and do
something about them."

I didn't think of any of that.

"The only major difference there seems to be from people who have done
that experiment, is the being in the center. I explained what I seen as
something that looked somewhat human, but it had very large eyes."

That sounds scary as hell. I never saw any being, any person, just the
light and was aware of being communicated with. It's hard to describe
how.

"My friend said it was a being that appeared to be human also.
Afterwards though, we got so curious and interested in wth happened, we
looked it up online. Found the studies on it...some scientist say they
seen beings that resembled reptiles which they called reptilian
huminoids, others
say they appeared to be demons etc."

Again, that sounds very similar to what I have read about experiences of
people who have gone through NDEs who thought they were in hell.

"We also found that they studied animals as well to see if they also
have that chemical released in them. In humans, it is produced in the
pineal gland. In other species, the pineal gland is called "the partial
eye", or "third eye". They call it that because it functions much like
an eye, also it has a cornea, rod and cone."

I only know of one species that has a parietal eye, and that's an iguana
(not saying other animals don't have it, but I was not aware of that.)

"Ever after all of this though, I spent a long time trying to figure out
what I seen, why I seen it, making connections, etc. I can't simply look
at DMT as a drug and say "yea man, crazy trip, you get ****ed up on that
**** and see crazy ****". I can't because it naturally occurs in our
bodies. What gets me the most...is that humans only use 10% of their
brains total output capacity. We can study books for years, but even the
smartest most brilliant human beings will reach 1 4th or less. So what
are we truly capable of? It's become obvious that it has more to do with
than book knowledge themselves."

It was further confirmation to me that God and an afterlife exists.

teensy probably was...um...the wrong word.

Sat 05/05/07 01:15 PM
teensy probably was...um...the wrong word.



I understand. I was being a smart ass while trying to make you (not)
menimize it. It's great that you came through it.
Kat

How'd they'd say it in the movie "Beetlejuice"?

"That is what happens when you die, that is what happens when he dies
[pointing to charred man, woman cut in half, etc]and that is what
happens when they die. It's all very personal."

They tell me I coded in the ambulance and was in intensive care for 5
days when I had a cerebral hemmorhage a few years ago. So, I guess that
qualifies as an NDE, but there isn't much to report. All I'd say about
how it compares to someone else's experience is:

"Your mileage may vary." Or maybe....

"It's all very personal."

-Kerry O.

I was just doing some research about this, and I came across something I
found to be very interesting.

"The second objection often comes from people who have had NDEs or other
kinds of mystical experiences. You are wrong, they say, this feeling of
bliss is nothing like a chemically induced high. It is a spiritual joy;
an experience of the soul; a transcendence of ordinary pleasure and
pain. Drug induced joy is a sham; not the real thing at all."

"This objection, voiced by those who have had the experience, those
closest to the subject of our research, conforms to the Afterlife
Hypothesis. They claim the experience is not body/brain/drug based, but
rather an experience of separation from ordinary body sensations."

I found that very interesting because, if one was to go back and reread
my description of the experience, this is EXACTLY what I said. I had not
read this before I had the NDE (in fact, when I had the NDE, I knew
nothing whatsoever about them; I'd never heard of them), and I had read
nothing like this when I told my story after the experience, and having
related it time and again in the ensuing years.

Source:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles001.html

Jean> Did you find that after a while you no longer wish to relate you
experiance because of the massive disbelief and riducle you face.

I spent several weeks being grilled and ridiculed by a physicologist for
beleiving in 'halucinations brought on by severe head trauma'. He spent
most of his time trying to convince me that no such experiance had
occured. The only reason he let up is his state funding dried up and he
could no longer persue the case.

I was attached to a heart monitor when it happend. The tape from that
monitor shows flatline for nearly 12 minutes.

I went a great distance (imeasurable) in the merest blink of an eye. I
saw light like a curtian or the northern lights. There were multitudes
making sounds of joy. There was a great sense of peace and contentment.
more than that I will not say cause it is personal. And I have found
that most do not want to here it.

"Jean Did you find that after a while you no longer wish to relate you
experiance because of the massive disbelief and riducle you face."

Oh, you bet! I found that out almost from the very first time I related
the experience!

"I spent several weeks being grilled and ridiculed by a physicologist
for beleiving in 'halucinations brought on by severe head trauma'. He
spent most of his time trying to convince me that no such experiance had
occured. The only reason he let up is his state funding dried up and he
could no longer persue the case."

I think that can be very psychologically damaging. The SOB should have
lost his license for that.

"I was attached to a heart monitor when it happend. The tape from that
monitor shows flatline for nearly 12 minutes."

Wow. I was on a boat with friends and when I came to, for a few moments
I was wondering..gee, did I dream that. That's when I could see their
ashen faces and the look of shock they had and they told me, "We
couldn't get a pulse on you for (I forgot...a few?) minutes. They were
getting ready to call an ambulance and start CPR.

"I went a great distance (imeasurable) in the merest blink of an eye. I
saw light like a curtian or the northern lights."

I felt like I had traveled a long way in a very short time, too.

"There were multitudes making sounds of joy. There was a great sense of
peace and contentment."

Yeah, for me it was so immense that there just are no words to describe
it. Even my most serene moment in life pales greatly in comparison..in
fact, you can't even compare it. Nothing on earth can come even close to
it, and particularly not any drug-induced experience.

"more than that I will not say cause it is personal. And I have found
that most do not want to here it."

I think some people are scared of it, because it makes them face their
own mortality (even though it's a wonderful experience), i.e., they're
scared of the unknown, and i think some people are jealous of it,
because they can't begin to understand what it's like and i think some
people are so much in denial about it being evidence of an afterlife,
God and Heaven that they'll grasp at any straw they can come up with to
try to "prove" that the experience YOU YOURSELF went through was not "as
you say it was." That's where I just have to sit back and chuckle and
say..."Okay, if you say so!"

I was sittin shotgun while my friend took it upon himself to drive 139
mph in his '68 Firebird in a residential area in Elverta, California in
1993, and I haven't been able to walk the same since.

Or think without sh*t gettin jumbled every now and then.

Because of my experiance I have no more fear of death. The place was
so... beyond anything I have ever imagined.

I was given a choice and my choice brought a sense of great satisfaction
from the one that asked me... as a father would be pleased with his son.

I was in extreme pain when it happened. That pain was gone while there.

The pain returned when I awoke to find a nurse straddling me doing cpr.
(was in a helicoptor)

F*ckin right!! I'd have asked her............well................

For me, AB, the aftereffects of the experience have not been so great. I
have a very analytical mind and I've been trying to figure out the
"whys" of the experience (from various perspectives) ever since. It left
me confused and depressed in many ways (not the experience itself) but
why life wasn't better since the event.

Many years and various happenings later, I have come to the conclusion
(even though I hate the cliche) that I have some purpose for being here,
and that we all die when it is "our time" to die. And it obviously
wasn't "my time."

If nothing else, it taught me perseverance in a big way.

My life has been.

During those times I remember that I am here by his will.

Its when I start following my own vain imaginings that things get bad.

A while back I wrote of my experience with NDE, OBE, so I thought I
would post it here. It is about my experience in March of 1989. I hope
you never have to see or feel what I did, it wasn't unpleasant or scary,
yet fear would be an understatement.

Pieces

Picking up some pieces, laying on the ground,
Stooping slowly, picking up, off the hardened ground.
Bending over, now to see, a man, he is in pieces,
Slowly standing up again, pain it finally ceases.

Looking into my hands, I find that they do bleed,
Hoping now, to find a friend, is all I really need.
Peering at the pieces found, I know that he is hurt,
Finding him, without a doubt, bleeding in the dirt.

Watching as the people gather, paramedics too,
I wonder who this man is, thinking it was who.
As I watch a friend of mine, slowly coming by,
Slowly stepping from the car I know and wonder why.

Friends of mine are with my wife and I can hear her screams,
Now I look upon a face, this man is me it seems.
Knowing what I do of life and traveling afar.
Seeing blood upon her hands I mustn’t go too far.

As I watched alone this night, I was very scared,
I was truly shaken, knowing that they cared.
They saved my life so long ago on that winter night,
I was very close you see, headed to that light.

My body bleeding several ways,
My heart had nearly stopped.
My mind did travel several days,
My leg was nearly chopped.

Reminders of that accident is clearly in my mind,
On that day I prayed to him I need his grace divine.
Will you please help me now will you spare my wife,
Spare my life, help me live, help me find my life.

Now these are but memories of times that moved too fast,
Memories here to stay, in my soul will last.
Of a fight so long ago memories of the past,
Thinking hard, my mind did go, glad it did not last.

Love I find inside myself was my only wealth,
Thoughts of loving in my soul carried me to health.
As I look upon these pieces what I really see,
Are these shards of broken glass a life that could be

That is very profound; thanks for sharing.

The last line should read;

Are these shards of broken glass a life that could be me?

G

jeanc200358, I think I explained everything in my first post. Probably
the best way you can more understand what I'm talking about, is probably
by checking it out on the wiki. I can understand how you wouldn't want
to believe someone's hearsay.

There is one very simple point you missed in my post. look back on it,
and I state what happens to the body during a NDE, and what is released.
I make connections between that. Then I state my experience correct? The
chemical released from the brain that occurs during NDE and during REM
sleep, I took that while awake. I explained how I got it, but that is
how I had that experience. I didn't plain out say I had a NDE did I? I
said I had an experience that people told me was much like NDE.

Now..here is the punchline Jean, I already stated that the chemical
(DMT) is released during NDE right? You're awake right b4 you have that
NDE right? (I'm going mainly on the people I talked to when I said I
talked to people who have had NDE, in which they all said something
happened while they were awake ie, gunshots, almost passed away in a car
crash, etc.) So the punchline comes - I took DMT while I was awake. What
are the only 2 for that to be in a humans body? I already answered that.
So thats why my body shut down, I went unconscious and had that
experience. It wasn't supposed to be in my body, but since it was, it
triggered my body into believing it was about to die, thats when
everything else took place. Did that clear things up? you can send me an
e-mail if you'd like so I don't have to keep posting huge posts to try
to explain things if I did a bad job at it the first time.

There seems to be a debate on something I'm not at all debating. Do
people see things when they have a NDE because of some chemical being
released at a certain time in their body? Or are they truly in some
state of a spiritual world thats not on earth? I'm actually not
disputing that at all, cause of course in the end, that all ends up
being opinion for the most part.

I'm just saying, that I've gained concrete evidence of answers to
questions I've had for quite awhile. Disturbing as they are to me, I
have full credibility in them. I won't list my questions nor their
answers here, all that comes from that is debate, and I don't care about
anyones opinion over my own beliefs. I do like to hear what people think
about the world, but I don't like debating over who has more facts to
say who is right.

Going back to what I just said though, weather or not we see things
because of natural occurring events that take place within our bodies at
certain times, would that be so hard to comprehend? Some people believe
that humans are created in God's image, so why would it be so hard to
believe that the mind can some how become in sync with things beyond the
world we currently see? For some reason, this scares people into
thinking that if you believe this, it dismisses the thought of an
afterlife or anything like that. That's not even the point intended, an
usually the person stating their point believes in an afterlife. So
maybe you misinterpreted what I've previously said.

My core beliefs became even more strengthened after I've had these
experiences. My core belief was that inside all living creatures, there
is energy. To me, its possible that this "energy" is actually our soul.
It's something inside us that makes us unique, and it's something we
can't see. Thinking any further of what a soul really is, is when
everything becomes complicated. Is the soul tied to the mind? If it
isn't is it safe to say that all of our previous experiences in life are
wiped out because they only live within the mind? If the soul isn't
human, would it be safe to say we'd carry no recollection of life after
we pass? The list goes on as everyone most likely already knows. So what
do humans normally do? They adopt a religion, a belief, maybe even
discover their own way to believe the way the world works. What else can
we do?

I respect everyones perspective on life, I can care less if they prayed
to a waffle stuck to their ceiling. We're each our own individual
person, although we're all on the same boat. Why not help each other
paddle?

"I think I explained everything in my first post. Probably
the best way you can more understand what I'm talking about, is probably
by checking it out on the wiki. I can understand how you wouldn't want
to believe someone's hearsay."

That has nothing to do with it...hearsay is not first-hand experience.
Thing is, I am often multitasking and I didn't have time to go back and
reread your original post and didn't recall the details of it, hence my
reasoning for asking for clarification as to what happened.

"There is one very simple point you missed in my post. look back on it,
and I state what happens to the body during a NDE, and what is
released."

I didn't miss that.

"I make connections between that. Then I state my experience correct?
The chemical released from the brain that occurs during NDE and during
REM sleep, I took that while awake."

That's the part I'll have to research...how is this naturally occurring
chemical reproduced? In pill form?

I explained how I got it, but that is how I had that experience. I
didn't plain out say I had a NDE did I?

If you stated the substance causes an NDE I guess, by "default," you
stated you had one?

I said I had an experience that people told me was much like NDE.

Okay.

"Now..here is the punchline Jean, I already stated that the chemical
(DMT) is released during NDE right? You're awake right b4 you have that
NDE right? (I'm going mainly on the people I talked to when I said I
talked to people who have had NDE, in which they all said something
happened while they were awake ie, gunshots, almost passed away in a car
crash, etc.)"

If they were awake, they didn't have an NDE. An NDE is not having a
"close-call" experience, an NDE is actually being "clinically" dead. Not
biologically dead, but clinically dead. No heartbeat.

"So the punchline comes - I took DMT while I was awake. What
are the only 2 for that to be in a humans body?"

I already answered that.

"So thats why my body shut down, I went unconscious and had that
experience. It wasn't supposed to be in my body, but since it was, it
triggered my body into believing it was about to die, thats when
everything else took place. Did that clear things up?"

Was your heart still beating?

"e-mail if you'd like so I don't have to keep posting huge posts to try
to explain things if I did a bad job at it the first time."

No, I was merely asking for clarification on a few issues; don't go to
all that trouble.

"There seems to be a debate on something I'm not at all debating. Do
people see things when they have a NDE because of some chemical being
released at a certain time in their body? "

I think there are chemical changes occurring, sure. But I can tell you,
it was not a chemically induced experience. There's no succinct way I
can tell you how I know this. I just do. It's something people are
either going to have to accept or not accept.

"Or are they truly in some state of a spiritual world thats not on
earth?"

Yes, there is!

"I'm actually not disputing that at all, cause of course in the end,
that all ends up being opinion for the most part."

No, it's opinion for those who have not experienced it. Those of us who
have are at a slightly better vantage point.

"I'm just saying, that I've gained concrete evidence of answers to
questions I've had for quite awhile. Disturbing as they are to me, I
have full credibility in them. I won't list my questions nor their
answers here, all that comes from that is debate, and I don't care about
anyones opinion over my own beliefs."

Then why even bring it up for discussion?

"I do like to hear what people think about the world, but I don't like
debating over who has more facts to say who is right."

Hmm...I had assumed your thread was started for that express purpose.

"Going back to what I just said though, weather or not we see things
because of natural occurring events that take place within our bodies at
certain times, would that be so hard to comprehend?"

Would what be so hard to comprehend?

"Some people believe that humans are created in God's image, so why
would it be so hard to believe that the mind can some how become in sync
with things beyond the world we currently see?"

Who said it would be?

"For some reason, this scares people into thinking that if you believe
this, it dismisses the thought of an afterlife or anything like that."

You didn't clarify that in your original post; it appeared as though you
were saying that NDEs are a result of a chemical reaction in the brain.

"That's not even the point intended, an usually the person stating their
point believes in an afterlife."

They do?

"So maybe you misinterpreted what I've previously said."

Perhaps so. Hindsight is 20/20, you know, particularly since there is a
lot more information to consider now.

"My core beliefs became even more strengthened after I've had these
experiences. My core belief was that inside all living creatures, there
is energy. To me, its possible that this "energy" is actually our soul."

In a basic sense, I agree with you. My experience definitely seemed to
have a correlation with energy.

"It's something inside us that makes us unique, and it's something we
can't see. Thinking any further of what a soul really is, is when
everything becomes complicated."

Yes, it does.

"Is the soul tied to the mind? If it isn't is it safe to say that all of
our previous experiences in life are wiped out because they only live
within the mind?"

I don't think so, in that I don't believe once we're gone we can look
back on our past memories. During my experience (until the end when I
was given a choice to stay or go) I had no thoughts, no recollection
whatsoever, about life on "Earth."

"If the soul isn't human, would it be safe to say we'd carry no
recollection of life after we pass?"

From my experience, yes, it'd be safe to say that.

"The list goes on as everyone most likely already knows. So what do
humans normally do? They adopt a religion, a belief, maybe even discover
their own way to believe the way the world works."

I didn't adopt one; I was "born" into one.


"I respect everyones perspective on life, I can care less if they prayed
to a waffle stuck to their ceiling."

So THAT's where that waffle went.

"We're each our own individual person, although we're all on the same
boat. Why not help each other paddle?"

Sure, why not?