is the economy really that good..? gas is super high (not euro high but
still) and only going up, No one i know is real safe in their job unless
they have been there 20 years or are a drone for a company like walmart.
Everyone seams to be buying houses the can't afford and then
foreclosing.. We owe other countries and companies tons of money.. where
is the American dream?

..the american dream died in dealey plaza...

eh wasn't fond of jfk.. probably cause i wasn't alive in his era so i
knew all the stuff about his womanizing and what not... but again back
then people believed that uncle sam was looking out ofr them

well the good news is that it can't be any worse!

well the housing market is probably going to get a little worse (for
those who own or are trying to sell) and we might face more job-cuts,
but hopefully we're not headed for a recession.

i guess things could be worse after all.

the housing market is the ****s in the States is it. Wow that sucks.

Here in Canada its on fire. Most of the provinces have watched their
houses sky rocket in value. Prices just keep going up. With interest
rates so low and mortgage options, so many more people are entering and
buying homes over renting.

The economy is doing well here. The Canadian dollar is hovering just
over 90 cents and the employment rate hit all time lows recently.

Here in Michigan Chrysler is going out of busniness. Delphie is
reporting a biger than ever loss and they outsouruces all their customer
service jobs to India. Citibank has out sourced 14,000 jobs to India
also. Commerica Bank had its headquarters in Detroit and they are
moving to TX.

Good news Toyota is going to be the number one car company in the world.
We have 25 million mexicans doing jobs that we don't want to d such as
home building, manufacturing, landscaping, resturante work, and of
course farming.

The economy is pretty good for those in a position to take YOUR money.
ha ha.

I hate to say it, but, some of the "wishful thinking" scenarios of
economic cluster-fukcs outlined in the "Communist Manifesto" really do
seem to be coming into focus.

well sooner or later people will not take it anymore.. like the french
did in their revolution...

for those that have the economy is great

for those that maintain the economy is ok

for those without the economy sucks

it is all a matter of perspective

just a thought

but hey what do i know

The way things currently are with the economy, if there was a Democrat
in the White House the economy would be fabulous. Since there is a
Republican in the White House, the economy has to be in the tubes
otherwise the whole liberal argument falls apart.

Take a look at the unemployment rate, very low. I know that there are
those who will decry the numbers, but it's the same numbers and way of
figuring them that Clinton used when he took credit for a low
unemployment rate.

The DOW is at record or near record levels. Clinton got to take credit
for it when it hit 12,000 so the Republicans get to take credit for it
now.

Jeff as for your comment about a revelution like the French, remember
that if you get rid of the rich you better find a huge source of revenue
to replace the taxes they pay or do away with a ton of federally funded
programs. The richest 5% of this country pay 57% of the total income
tax paid. The top 50% of the income earners in the U.S. pay a total of
97% of the total income tax, he bottom 50% of the tax payers pay a total
of 3% of the total income tax.

Gas prices hinge on two things, the price of oil and the available
supply of gasoline. Oil prices are high right now because of the
instabliity in the middle east. Although only bout 10% of our imported
oil comes from there OPEC sets the price and that's what is followed
worldwide. There is more than enough U.S. oil available to offset what
we import from the middle east if we were allowed to drill for it, but
the enviromentalist groups have effectively blocked that exploration for
years and continue to do so. Secondly the supply of gasoline, there has
not been a new refinery built in the U.S. for over 30 years for the same
reason. The existing refinerys are operating at max capacity, they
cannot produce more gasoline. It is a simple matter of supply and
demand, limited supply, great demand = high price. Just once I wish the
liberals would step up to the plate and take responsibility for the
havoc they create instead of sitting on their butts pointing the finger
at eveyone else and trying to blame their messes on some sort of
"conspiracy".

My only question about gasoline prices is this: Has anyone else noticed
that when crude prices go up the price at the pump goes up immediately?
When the price of crude goes down it takes a couple weeks to see it at
the pump. During Hurricane Katrina for instance, the price here in
Georgia went up 30 cents the first day. That gasoline was already in the
pipeline wasn't it?

Greenspan, following the economy model of Keynes, managed to determine
that by keeping unemployment one percent higher than its normal
condition by holding tight reins on the economy with slightly higher
interest rates, he could lower the rate of inflation by one percent per
year. If you track the figures he managed to do exactly that during his
term as head of the Fed. You can see from the charts that the inflation
rates tracked downwards one percent per year until he got it down to
essentially nothing, (one or two percent). With the lowering of
inflation he was able to lower the interest rate in step. So meanwhile
the economy moved along with lower and lower rates. So consequently
credit for low interest rates and low rates of inflation belong to
Keynes and Greenspan.

Greenspan took office around the time of the demise of Carter. When
Carter was president, Paul Volker was head of the Fed, and he used a
technique of managing the money supply based on the amount of dollars in
M1, the liquid portion of the money supply. The effect was peculiar and
unexpected by the Fed in some ways due to the movement of money into and
out of other areas such as M2, M3 and L, and of course international
money sources. His lack of understanding of the details brought us
quickly up to 18 percent inflation or some such. It was incredibly tough
seeing the prices rise so rapidly. The market was extremely hot, a lot
of speculation and growth.

A little inflation is not so bad for you if you are a manufacturer. If
you crush the manufacturers (and the home builders too Jeff) by having
too tight of a money supply, you crush the ability of the country to
grow.

I agree with DaVinci...

I do not think that (no offense) the JFK era was the end all be all of
the world or the US.

Gas prices being what they are HIGH, is not and should not be the only
indicator that we use for how well or how bad our economy in the states.
there are other indicators that prove equally indicative of economic
growth. should use more than one in my opinion or else we're just
closing our eyes to the whole truth instead of the whole truth.

but just an opinion.



doc

It seems some of you are reading the stats from viable sources, however
I would like to let you in on some of the secrets of fuel prices that
you may not be aware of.

To start with since N.A.F.T.A. The socalled surplus of oils that were to
be imported and exported through the U.S. has not occurred. The fuel
oils that were to be traded throughout the U.S. are not being produced
as they were to be expected. This created the high prices we see now,
however if you have ever been involved with the oil companies, ie
retailer, you know if you have been around for any period of time the
fuel prices and the oil prices you see in OPEC have little to do with
each other.

The responsibilty of price structure is set long before any price
increase is seen at the pumps. Natural disasters/accidents have some
bearing on prices however that is due to Greed, not supply and demand.
When accidents occur in refineries they are used as an excuse to
renovate and increase prices. If you have been involved with the oil
industry you would know that the prices we see today were set approx.
10-12 yrs ago, sometimes even as far as 15 yrs in advance. These are
little know facts to the general public, this is information that only
those who are active participants in multiple ownerships of Gas
Stations.


There is one major contributor to pricing, and that is the so-called
Tree Huggers of America and thier ability to navigate through the courts
and stop certain explorations.

This makes me wonder if the Oil companies themselves allow the tree
huggers certain information to slow down the process of drilling for
oil.
I find it funny at times to hear how this or that contributes to the
rise in prices.

As for the economy in the area I live?

This is a small community, the town was estimated at 6,500 at the last
Census, however since January 475 people were laid off due to slowdowns
and as a result it seems I will be moving again. I wasn't laid off,
however as a result of these layoffs the economy here has hit the skids
with no signs of help in the near future. I could give you many
different scenarios that could effect the economy here but at this point
in the game, Trickle down economics are not helping here. The fact that
local inflation rates don't show this Layoff is because the Companies
who performed these layoffs are not based locally.

Housing prices has almost doubled since I moved here less than a year
ago, now I would not be surprized if the builders/realtors who helped
create this problem here go Belly up and blame the administration for
the problems occurring here. As a matter of fact I heard some Gossiping
at lunch today about our administration being responsible for the mess
here.
I think the sheep should take off the blinders and take a good look
around.

HHhhhmmm, As for these facts;
Jeff as for your comment about a revelution like the French, remember
that if you get rid of the rich you better find a huge source of revenue
to replace the taxes they pay or do away with a ton of federally funded
programs. The richest 5% of this country pay 57% of the total income
tax paid. The top 50% of the income earners in the U.S. pay a total of
97% of the total income tax, he bottom 50% of the tax payers pay a total
of 3% of the total income tax.

You are correct in this statement, however since I pay nearly 27% of my
income for taxes, and those in the top 5% pay nearly 7% of thier total
income in taxes, do you think this is a fair representation of proper
and equal taxations?

Seems to me if I only paid 7% in taxes each year that would give me an
additional 20% to my income. That would mean I would have an extra
10,000 a year to spend on what I need to survive, and surviving is about
all I can do at this time.

The inflation rate of 50 cents on a gallon of gas in the last 3 weeks or
so far surpasses my ability to get a raise to cover this expense.

This is the local economy in a nutshell, take it for what its worth and
take a look around you before you decide if we are growing or sinking.




G

If the big three auto makers, GM, Ford and Chyrsler, had started
importing vehicles and closed their plants in the USA several years
ago....kinda like the oil industry has done... do you think the auto
makers would be banking record profits like the oil companies?

Don't know why I ask....this just popped in my mind.

Quote.
If the big three auto makers, GM, Ford and Chyrsler, had started
importing vehicles and closed their plants in the USA several years
ago....kinda like the oil industry has done... do you think the auto
makers would be banking record profits like the oil companies?

They have been importing for several years, ford has been with
Mazda,(can we say Courier, explorer) Chrysler has been with
mitsubishi(Dakota, aries, and all K cars), and for some reason I am
drawing a blank on GM for some reason. This doesn't count the fact that
since the mid 1970's assembly of our so-called domestics has been
carried out in Mexico and Canada. More and more of the production lines
have been outsourced to foriegn countries in an attempt to lower prices
of the domestics.

It isn't helping though, Ford is having Major problems with thier truck
line due to warranty repairs. Chrysler and GM are having similiar
problems with thier lines of vehicles. The main reason the imports are
doing well is simple, they have backing from thier governments and as a
result quality control is much Higher, there is no union to tell the
company how much labor it will cost to produce a single unit/vehicle.

Don't get me wrong the unions did a fine job when it was necessary,
however today they are just another Fat Cat leaching off the backs of
the employees. As a result of these leaches quality control and Pride go
out the door. Can we just say it is time to look at what is really
important? I'll leave that one for another day.



G

Gryphyn, I agree with you.