Amen.

Whats wrong with socialism anyway?

Its obvious that the bourgeois are exploiting the proletarians.

I doubt that most of you have even read what Marx said .

True socialism gives the government too much control in people's lives, that is the problem with true socialism.

What is going on here is not socialism though. We have to change some things in this country because we are going to fall behind as a world power if we do not take care of the people in this country.

This is America and all should have access to healthcare, education and safety in this country today. The fact that it is not happening is a great concern that our lawmakers need to address as voted spokespeople for the people.

when the government truly cares for the people it will be because the people have surrendered all to that very government. then the only care we will recieve, like babies that can't wipe our own butts, will be what is cheaper for the government. history gets repeated all the time and they learn the same lessons over and over and over but only for a moment each time.

Historically socialism doesn't work and always leads to an oligarchy (small group of elites dictating).

If we want to know what to NOT do we need to look a Roman history. Rome, i believe, introduced the first republic. That's what the U.S. was founded on. (Actually it is a democratic republic.)

This is because democracy is a mob rule.

And a ruling body becomes corrupt.

That is why everything is balanced.

Freedom is so often preached because our country was supposed to have as little government involvement as possible. No one was supposed to be told to do anything aside from respecting each others rights.

Anyway, back to Rome...

Supposedly the first Republic became corrupt as predicted. They started passing laws in the interest of businesses. This start to put economical pressure on the poor and middle class. Their solution was social programs. You know, welfare, healthcare, etc.

Anyway, this made the middle class shrinkand shrink fast. When the middle class shrank, they weren't able to afford these systems anymore, unless they created more money, which they did. This led to runaway inflation whichmade everything unaffordable for the poor and eventually people starved. This led to riots and uprising.

The end result was the Ceasars ruling.

Maybe that's what we need. Maybe people have become so incapable they cannot take care of themselves anymore. Maybe we are so unvirtuous we are incapable of freedom... I hope not. I hope it hasn't come to that point.

Anyway, the problem with socialism is that there is no private property. Everything is government owned, and 51% of the population decides what to do with this property. Also, chances for advancement financially are very limited. It's a tried and failed method.

The problem with socialism and us, is the simple fact that it will only benefit the big businesses that are causing many of our problems. National Healthcare will make the pharmacuetical companies filthy rich (more so) because instead of investigating their influence on the FDA, we decide to fund a government program giving them muchbigger pockets to pick.


Before resorting to another course of action, like starting more programs we can't afford, perhaps we should look at our problem, and find a diagnosis before starting a treatment.

Maybe my study of medicine is skewing my perception of reality. Normally a patient will have a problem, usually pain related. We look at the problem, then trace it, the best we can, back to the source so we may diagnose it. Until a proper diagnosis is given, we cannot assume a treatment will work.

Starting a government program would be just like treating a patient with pain medication without giving a diagnosis.

There must be some reason we cannot afford healthcare. Why not? Is it because insurance companies are no longer non-profit and they are screwing people over? Is it because illegal immigrants are flooding the system, getting treatment and not paying? Is it because the big pharmacuetical companies are influencing the FDA to make noninvasive, cheap treatments illegal so people have to buydrugs with side affects that require treatment from other drugs?

We need to ask more questions before coming up with solutions...

You are not considering all levels of the possible reasons, one not considered here is the fact that true capitalism is cruel and inhumane. There is no consideration for those unable to reach the capitalistic dream of making more money than you can possibly spend. Those individuals cannot pay what a capitalistic society doctors want to get for their services so they can have the great capitalistic dream of having more money than they can spend.

Capitalism is great in doses. It is not great to those who do not reach the brass ring. Because the cost of living in a truly capitalistic society will be high.

The pharmecutical companies have reached the brass ring in the truly capitalistic society at every level. They are monsters. They are not regulated well and they can pretty much buy whatever they need to get around the regulation there is.

Laying blame on a certain percentage of the society is not accurate at all. I have already explained that the stats out there are not accurate. They include all indigent people in this country in the stats and pass them off as illegal stats for health care. Indigents include all Americans that cannot pay for their health care but end up at the hospital for whatever reason. Considering the population of this country there are far more indigent American's receiving care than illegals. It is a hatemongering tool they use to fire peoples hatred. It is not accurate.

The burgeois cant even keep their proletarians workers from starving!!!

Do you deny this?


The burgeois have taken everything and made it profane. Nothing is sacred or holy to them but the almighty dollar! They have desecrated and torn asunder everything! If their capitalism is so great, why cant they feed the proletarians and provide them with an adequate quality of life? Why cant they feed their own "slaves"?

Is this from you Marx text? lol Some of it is true. The almighty dollar is the bottom line in a capitalistic society which breeds greed and inconsideration to the well being of all. If all of a nation are not well cared for and considered in the making of the laws and governing then the power of the nation falls to the wayside and the corruption eats up the elite that are left.

capitalism really is just a ponzi scheme anyways.

Not according to my history book.


Why do people such as yourself defend the burgeois anyways?


You're not one of them

They will never allow you to become one of them.


They are exploiting you

Just as they have exploited your family for centuries

Its how the burgeois exploit the proletarians and turn us all against each other like starving dogs so we don't notice what they are doing

History or not my friend. Solutions should not be given unless the disease is diagnosed, right?

I didn't hear anybody attempting to figure anything out, did you?

No, instead they imediately jumped to the conclusion that the government needs to pay for it.

I ask why.

I say what's wrong with freedom?

What's smart about taking away advancements of the peopleand regulating them through taxes?

What's smart about spending 50% to 60% of your income on taxes?

What incentive is there to advance when you will only be taxed into make LESS money, or equal money as before?

Socialism didn't work for Russia, and why should it be used here?

We don't have socialism here and never will so that is a mute point.

O...K....

So i will take out the last line.... the rest of my comments still remain true...

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
-Thomas Jefferson


I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
-Thomas Jefferson

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
-Benjamin Franklin


I find this one applicable to what i was trying to explain about finding a diagnosis of a problem before treatment.


Never confuse motion with action.
-Benjamin Franklin

That is all great and all, appreciate the quotes but since we are not a democracy as pointed out over and over we don't have to worry about that right? None of those quotes apply to capitalism either. None of those quotes state that a citizen should not be taxed by their income. None of those statement mean that a government should not assist it's citizens nor intervene and regulate when an abuse is sited.

I wanted to address your earlier post also. Most of what you listed is exaggerated information so it is not accurate and freedom does not mean non responsibility to the country we live in and it's governing. Every free citizen of this great country has a responsibility to the government monetarily and in service. Freedom is never free by any means and that doesn't just apply to the military either.

Driven says,




Yes they did driven.
First,
the recession and slowing economy were evident as far back as 2007, only the Bushies covered it up and kept telling Americans that there was no problem.
It was immediately obvious what the cause was.
Deregulation- too much freedom for power hungry personalities to exploit their inborn greed.
How could we have ever expected them to regulate themselves? Greed is a second heart to them.






Congress debated this bill long before they passed it.
Plus, Obama had an economic team working on the cause, effect, and solution, shortly after being elected.
The problem started with the government. They had an obligation to do something or we would now be in a deep depression.
Instead of 8.1% unemployment, we would have 20-to-25% unemployment rate.
8.1 isnt really that awful compared to that, but it would be a fool who thought this is the bottom. I would expect 11 or 12% before it starts to get better, and this will still be the effects of events happening before Obama was sworn in.



If you'd quit listening to the Ron Paul, the end is near, Rhetoric.
Quit listening to all the chicken-littles, and quit being led into exaggerations, then you would realize that what Obama is doing is saving our collective butts.

Obama was elected by a landslide in electoral and a majority in the popular vote.
By Americans who expected him to do exactly what he promised while campaigning.

I am utterly elated that I voted for Obama.
In fact, for the first time in my adulthood,
Im seeing a President who actually is keeping his campaign promises.
One by one, I see them being fulfilled

I expect this is probably the first truly great and original thinking President I have ever witnessed occupying the White House.
His will be historic for beginning a restoration of American values and trustworthiness. I believe we are seeing America begin to rise to the position of greatness and leadership we let slip away.
This is the beginning of an even stronger America.


Obama can do this,
NO,,,,,
we can do this, without turning socialist and without paying 50% of our earnings in taxes. We could eventually see a lower tax-rate and still walk proudly into the future I see for us.

"There's class warfare, all right. But it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." ~~~ Warren Buffett

EVERYBODY wants to NOW say Socialism when since I was BORN 51 years ago,,,we have HAD a semi Co-Social environment here,,,Taxation and welfare, medicare, Social security,,,Our Government has for even longer BEEN in PART this way.....
And I do believe in a heart beat that if Roosevelt had known how this country was going to turn out,,
HE would have INCLUDED medical coverage for all Americans, when he started SS...

PEOPLE who MAKE MONEY off of others,,,,are the ones who now are crying,,,,,,,its NOT the blue collar guys,wink

To me the Stock Market is NOTHING MORE than a LEGAL PYRAMID SCAM...
As long as IT'S WORKING TO PRODUCE,,,all are happy,,,but when it STOPS making money(no ones buying)IT and their money go away....

WE HAVE COME TO LIKE MONEY OVER LIKING EACH OTHER.

We were NOT FOUNDED in this land WITH MONEY,,, WE TRADED with TRUSTED FRIENDS it was through bonds of friendships and believing in one another. And this GREAT Mother Earth to feed us and water us...AND GOD WAS IN EVERYONE'S MIND AND HEARTS THEN,,,,,,,


BUT WE NOW LIVE FOR AND KILL FOR MONEY instead of LOVING EACH OTHER for just being Another LIFE here with us, to call friend and to know.