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| Topic: I often wonder about the art of punishment | |
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Wow, did we ever take a left turn with this one....
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Edited by
Filmfreek
on
Wed 02/18/09 10:01 AM
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WTF?! I saw no mention of Hitler in his post. And, your way of thinking is right out of the Koran. No justice without violence.
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I would never just let my child sink or swim. He just turned 18 and all I can do is hope I prepared him the best I can. I will always be there to help but sometimes he needs to learn things by failing. I can't do everything for him. he has is own free will. I just have to hope he uses his head and heart
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Good for you yellowrose. Did you raise him in a strict religious environment?
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To Davidben..the ultimate rant artist. I enjoy reading your posts, even though they make no or little sense to me. Dude...you should really write a book. If half of the sh!t you post in here is from you? You have got to get that stuff published.  
lol!!! your cool man. if it be published, it become as stale bread??? if it be published, IT BECOME A RELIGION, LOL. |
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So the mentality of those who have posted is to let the child learn from its mistakes without teaching them ahead of time that it can be avoided. Instead just mention it is bad and good luck to you kid. or one can say learn by experiencing on ones own instead of being educated on how to deal with the situation so it will never happen in the first place. I don't believe this to be true 
If one has the power to stop something that is bad then one should try to make it happen. For example the situation to break up two children bashing their brains out because of a disagreement. One can actually teach a different alternative instead ahead of time so such a instant doesn't happen in the first place. Like walk away... The bible actually teaches not to walk away from violence. It teaches a whole different concept on how to deal with situations that is the opposite of what we should be teaching. Stone children if they don't listen because "God whilst it". So I can fully understand why the western world is alot more aggressive in many situations because of its teachings. I can understand if you don't see a different alternative then to fight and hit then I can fully understand why violence would be the only choice you know. With greater powers grows greater responsiblities and it is our responsiblity to make sure to teach a different alternative to lifes lessons to children. A peaceful way even to misundertandings. Does it sound illogical to you? Will it work? Of course it will if you teach it! There is no evil, there is only misunderstandings that can be corrected if educated. I tire when religous folks say evil when things are not done in the way their scriptures teach them. so in otherwords, to raise a child without holding their hand is like saying well I told you so and now you suffer the consequences if you don't listen. Instead of trying a different alternative by teaching what would happen if you don't do it a certain way to avoid the uncomfortable. To be an example and rolemodel and give practice to situations so many cuts and bruises are avoided in the end. That is why there are so many misunderstandings(evil for religious folks) because people don't hold hands when taught lessons. It is in my opinion important so children can know how to react to situations that doesn't create such scrapes and bad results in the first place. Teaching and Educating and (Caring) is the key to it all. So when the child is alone and in a situation they know exactly the best alternative, because they were TRULY educated and not just "MENTIONED" and later told by the teacher "well I told you so". I do agree we learn from mistakes, well at least most of us do, yet it doesn't answer the question why a god who has greater powers(greater responsiblity) to make sure we children don't do such acts of misunderstandings. If god does exist who supposingly created life then he can certainly can avoid the creation of nonviolence, aggression, and negative emotions. So in the end what everyone is saying is God taught us in the bible on how to be yet he doesn't hold our hand in the lessons because he told us we have to do it on our own and good luck to you kid instead of holding our hand and showing us how it can be done so we can do it right the first time if we are alone in the situation. Wouldn't you think that would be a better teacher in the end? I do 
Hitler was a misunderstanding ? there are some evils out there that can only be handled with force . there is no eternal peace , never will be because of human nature . all know the difference of wrong from right but some choose to ignore it . we can tell someone all we want dont kill that person but if they make the CHOICE not to listen then there are punishments for that action . unfortunately there can be no peace without action . In order to understand Hitler one would have to understand his situation. If you study the history of Germany, you will see that after world war 1 Germans were poor, hungry, and seeking help. Many chose to pray and hoped for a miracle to happen. The political parties SPD and CDU didn't have a solution at the time to reestablish its economy. So religion to pray for a miracle was important to the Germans even though it didn't feed them anything in the end. but the German Jews did have work. They did have money and did offer work to people, but only to the German Jews. You had to be a jew to get a job. and you can't just convert either. You had to be for many generations proven to be a jew. so now let us go to hitler Hitler finished his apprenticeship and was ready to work in Austria The town he lived in was primarily Jewish Business He applied and got rejected of course in the end he wrote "Mein Kamp" literally translated to "My Struggles". He envisioned how to get the economy started again. He envisioned how the German people should be proud of their race. He in the end won the hearts of the people beating the other political parties He brought work to the people they were able to eat again! buy clothes! He made Germany a strong economy again in a very short time So his hatred for Jews is because of his experience with them Not because he just wanted to hate them for apparent no reason ((If he was educated a different approach in the whole situation)) Perhaps the war would have never happened perhaps other countries would be willing to help Germany's disaster economy and get them working again. So yes racism, prejudice, misunderstandings, can be taught while holding a hand if neccessary. War is NOT neccessary for the survival of mankind War can be eliminated and it starts with changing each individual minds by educating other alternatives to misunderstandings. |
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To Davidben..the ultimate rant artist. I enjoy reading your posts, even though they make no or little sense to me. Dude...you should really write a book. If half of the sh!t you post in here is from you? You have got to get that stuff published.
lol!!! your cool man. if it be published, it become as stale bread??? if it be published, IT BECOME A RELIGION, LOL.  You could very well become the next "messiah". No bs.
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we have gotten way of topic here . and i am guilty of that the topic being common since . i was raised in a strict religious home . and because of that i follow no particular religion . but i do follow god , and gods word . and my kids are raised the same . i go back to my previous areguement that we have common since because of religion . all religions . when you look at religion though you have to remember that although based in a certain beliefe . it was formed by man .
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Good for you yellowrose. Did you raise him in a strict religious environment? my religious beliefs are mine. I brought him up with the basic beliefs....treat others good, stand up for whatever you believe in and be the best you can be. When he did wrong....yes I punished him, but also let him know why. but he is like me and we think what we think and know that others might not agree and that's ok. I was brought up in a religious back ground. I have nothing against it because i'm my own person with my own brain and heart. I have taught my son that he can do what he wants in life but be ready for the rewards or punishments. meaning...if he goes on a shooting spree...be prepared to face the music. hopefully i taught him how to be a good man...but it's his choice. i will always love him but doesn't mean i have to agree with what he does. and he doesn't have to agree with me. |
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So the mentality of those who have posted is to let the child learn from its mistakes without teaching them ahead of time that it can be avoided. Instead just mention it is bad and good luck to you kid. or one can say learn by experiencing on ones own instead of being educated on how to deal with the situation so it will never happen in the first place. I don't believe this to be true
If one has the power to stop something that is bad then one should try to make it happen. For example the situation to break up two children bashing their brains out because of a disagreement. One can actually teach a different alternative instead ahead of time so such a instant doesn't happen in the first place. Like walk away... The bible actually teaches not to walk away from violence. It teaches a whole different concept on how to deal with situations that is the opposite of what we should be teaching. Stone children if they don't listen because "God whilst it". So I can fully understand why the western world is alot more aggressive in many situations because of its teachings. I can understand if you don't see a different alternative then to fight and hit then I can fully understand why violence would be the only choice you know. With greater powers grows greater responsiblities and it is our responsiblity to make sure to teach a different alternative to lifes lessons to children. A peaceful way even to misundertandings. Does it sound illogical to you? Will it work? Of course it will if you teach it! There is no evil, there is only misunderstandings that can be corrected if educated. I tire when religous folks say evil when things are not done in the way their scriptures teach them. so in otherwords, to raise a child without holding their hand is like saying well I told you so and now you suffer the consequences if you don't listen. Instead of trying a different alternative by teaching what would happen if you don't do it a certain way to avoid the uncomfortable. To be an example and rolemodel and give practice to situations so many cuts and bruises are avoided in the end. That is why there are so many misunderstandings(evil for religious folks) because people don't hold hands when taught lessons. It is in my opinion important so children can know how to react to situations that doesn't create such scrapes and bad results in the first place. Teaching and Educating and (Caring) is the key to it all. So when the child is alone and in a situation they know exactly the best alternative, because they were TRULY educated and not just "MENTIONED" and later told by the teacher "well I told you so". I do agree we learn from mistakes, well at least most of us do, yet it doesn't answer the question why a god who has greater powers(greater responsiblity) to make sure we children don't do such acts of misunderstandings. If god does exist who supposingly created life then he can certainly can avoid the creation of nonviolence, aggression, and negative emotions. So in the end what everyone is saying is God taught us in the bible on how to be yet he doesn't hold our hand in the lessons because he told us we have to do it on our own and good luck to you kid instead of holding our hand and showing us how it can be done so we can do it right the first time if we are alone in the situation. Wouldn't you think that would be a better teacher in the end? I do
Hitler was a misunderstanding ? there are some evils out there that can only be handled with force . there is no eternal peace , never will be because of human nature . all know the difference of wrong from right but some choose to ignore it . we can tell someone all we want dont kill that person but if they make the CHOICE not to listen then there are punishments for that action . unfortunately there can be no peace without action . In order to understand Hitler one would have to understand his situation. If you study the history of Germany, you will see that after world war 1 Germans were poor, hungry, and seeking help. Many chose to pray and hoped for a miracle to happen. The political parties SPD and CDU didn't have a solution at the time to reestablish its economy. So religion to pray for a miracle was important to the Germans even though it didn't feed them anything in the end. but the German Jews did have work. They did have money and did offer work to people, but only to the German Jews. You had to be a jew to get a job. and you can't just convert either. You had to be for many generations proven to be a jew. so now let us go to hitler Hitler finished his apprenticeship and was ready to work in Austria The town he lived in was primarily Jewish Business He applied and got rejected of course in the end he wrote "Mein Kamp" literally translated to "My Struggles". He envisioned how to get the economy started again. He envisioned how the German people should be proud of their race. He in the end won the hearts of the people beating the other political parties He brought work to the people they were able to eat again! buy clothes! He made Germany a strong economy again in a very short time So his hatred for Jews is because of his experience with them Not because he just wanted to hate them for apparent no reason ((If he was educated a different approach in the whole situation)) Perhaps the war would have never happened perhaps other countries would be willing to help Germany's disaster economy and get them working again. So yes racism, prejudice, misunderstandings, can be taught while holding a hand if neccessary. War is NOT neccessary for the survival of mankind War can be eliminated and it starts with changing each individual minds by educating other alternatives to misunderstandings. i agree and am familiar with the history my point was that he felt he was justified in what he was doing and talk of peace never would have worked . intervening in any other way other then violence was not a choice . and it was off topic and my fault so i apologize for going off topic |
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I would never just let my child sink or swim. He just turned 18 and all I can do is hope I prepared him the best I can. I will always be there to help but sometimes he needs to learn things by failing. I can't do everything for him. he has is own free will. I just have to hope he uses his head and heart If you have taught him well. Educated him and shown him personally how many of the consequences can happen from misunderstandings, racism, prejudice, and lifes learnings then he should understand how to avoid many of lifes unpleasant tribulations. What is important is that you will "know" when to let him go because you "know" he will do a great job as an adult in this world showing the best alternatives on how to preserve peace, love, understanding, and progress to live a substantial life full of happiness. Only then can you say you did good. |
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for the record....the religious surroundings i was raised in wasn't the christianity that some people think of. I was taught common sense and the golden rule, etc. i was taught to just be a good person (even though we all make mistakes). if you made a mistake...own up to it and learn from it so history doesn't repeat itself. the church i went to is thought to be a very strict one but they did teach us respect of others, stand up for your beliefs but understand not everyone thinks as you do and just think about things
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Good for you yellowrose. Did you raise him in a strict religious environment? my religious beliefs are mine. I brought him up with the basic beliefs....treat others good, stand up for whatever you believe in and be the best you can be. When he did wrong....yes I punished him, but also let him know why. but he is like me and we think what we think and know that others might not agree and that's ok. I was brought up in a religious back ground. I have nothing against it because i'm my own person with my own brain and heart. I have taught my son that he can do what he wants in life but be ready for the rewards or punishments. meaning...if he goes on a shooting spree...be prepared to face the music. hopefully i taught him how to be a good man...but it's his choice. i will always love him but doesn't mean i have to agree with what he does. and he doesn't have to agree with me. If he goes on a killing spree?? I know it's none of my business, but is he joining the armed forces? Man...I gotta pray for this kid. |
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I would never just let my child sink or swim. He just turned 18 and all I can do is hope I prepared him the best I can. I will always be there to help but sometimes he needs to learn things by failing. I can't do everything for him. he has is own free will. I just have to hope he uses his head and heart If you have taught him well. Educated him and shown him personally how many of the consequences can happen from misunderstandings, racism, prejudice, and lifes learnings then he should understand how to avoid many of lifes unpleasant tribulations. What is important is that you will "know" when to let him go because you "know" he will do a great job as an adult in this world showing the best alternatives on how to preserve peace, love, understanding, and progress to live a substantial life full of happiness. Only then can you say you did good. he is a great kid and i'm proud. it's not even so much what I did....it's how he chose to be. he deserves the credit. I was just trying to show what another poster was talking about as far as God and his "children" etc. this is just my opinion and how i believe though |
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Good for you yellowrose. Did you raise him in a strict religious environment? my religious beliefs are mine. I brought him up with the basic beliefs....treat others good, stand up for whatever you believe in and be the best you can be. When he did wrong....yes I punished him, but also let him know why. but he is like me and we think what we think and know that others might not agree and that's ok. I was brought up in a religious back ground. I have nothing against it because i'm my own person with my own brain and heart. I have taught my son that he can do what he wants in life but be ready for the rewards or punishments. meaning...if he goes on a shooting spree...be prepared to face the music. hopefully i taught him how to be a good man...but it's his choice. i will always love him but doesn't mean i have to agree with what he does. and he doesn't have to agree with me. If he goes on a killing spree?? I know it's none of my business, but is he joining the armed forces? Man...I gotta pray for this kid. I was using that as an extreme example. In many ways....he's more mature than ole mom. lol he thinks for himself and doesn't let peer pressure influence him. he's stubborn like mom |
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Good for you yellowrose. Did you raise him in a strict religious environment? my religious beliefs are mine. I brought him up with the basic beliefs....treat others good, stand up for whatever you believe in and be the best you can be. When he did wrong....yes I punished him, but also let him know why. but he is like me and we think what we think and know that others might not agree and that's ok. I was brought up in a religious back ground. I have nothing against it because i'm my own person with my own brain and heart. I have taught my son that he can do what he wants in life but be ready for the rewards or punishments. meaning...if he goes on a shooting spree...be prepared to face the music. hopefully i taught him how to be a good man...but it's his choice. i will always love him but doesn't mean i have to agree with what he does. and he doesn't have to agree with me. If he goes on a killing spree?? I know it's none of my business, but is he joining the armed forces? Man...I gotta pray for this kid. what is wrong with the armed forces ? i served my country and am a better person for it ? |
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there is nothing wrong with the armed forces IMO
in fact my son wants to become a cop to make a difference and help protect people . not my career choice, but this i how he feels |
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i was refering to film freak responding like soldiers are mass murderers . what we have done in service of our country is the reason he can be here arguing his point .
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I C it being said that why doesn't Yahweh teach us so we know better.
He did. We have as a society taken the teachings away as no good. You speak of stonings in the Bible. Who does the stoning? The whole community. Do you not think that teaches everyone what consequences of thier actions are? Do you really believe since we took the Bible away from being a standard it has helped our children? Have you not read the Papers the last 40 years? Before the Athiest won the court battle how prepared were your children to go out into the world? Talking about a backlash. We say parents abuse thier kids so the state must step in and control things. Not that it did not happen. I am not saying that. But now a kid gets spanked at home thier programmed so much at school that they may be abused that they want to call 911 if they get disciplined. Then what do they see when the police arrive? Thier parents get a talking to. Yea that really teaches the kid about who thier true authority is, doesn't it? So the child does what he wants. The really only recource for the parent is to try and go through the system but we know that so many say the hell with it. Trying the system may turn on them and then what good has that done the child? Now the child has turned 18 and all thier lives have learned they can do what they want the police and thier watchdogs, social services has backed them up. What training now have they got for the real world when they get upset and have always got by with it? have you not looked around the country and all we hear about is more prisons being built. WHY? To now house your children who you were not allowed to disciple. Wow what a great POLICE STATE we have made by doing exactly as the Authorities want you to. They have you. They own you. Thier now seems to be no turning back as we said The Bible is not JUST mans thoughts and WAYS are JUST. Yea how many rights have you lost in the last 40 years since that supreme court decision that eroded our grandparents way of life? Or do all of you Hate your grandparents and Parents as they were GREAT ABUSERS? Because that is what you are really saying that they did not know thier head from a hole in the ground and you do. Sometimes the Truth of who and what we have become is a little frightening... Blessings...Miles |
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I C it being said that why doesn't Yahweh teach us so we know better. He did. We have as a society taken the teachings away as no good. You speak of stonings in the Bible. Who does the stoning? The whole community. Do you not think that teaches everyone what consequences of thier actions are? Do you really believe since we took the Bible away from being a standard it has helped our children? Have you not read the Papers the last 40 years? Before the Athiest won the court battle how prepared were your children to go out into the world? Talking about a backlash. We say parents abuse thier kids so the state must step in and control things. Not that it did not happen. I am not saying that. But now a kid gets spanked at home thier programmed so much at school that they may be abused that they want to call 911 if they get disciplined. Then what do they see when the police arrive? Thier parents get a talking to. Yea that really teaches the kid about who thier true authority is, doesn't it? So the child does what he wants. The really only recource for the parent is to try and go through the system but we know that so many say the hell with it. Trying the system may turn on them and then what good has that done the child? Now the child has turned 18 and all thier lives have learned they can do what they want the police and thier watchdogs, social services has backed them up. What training now have they got for the real world when they get upset and have always got by with it? have you not looked around the country and all we hear about is more prisons being built. WHY? To now house your children who you were not allowed to disciple. Wow what a great POLICE STATE we have made by doing exactly as the Authorities want you to. They have you. They own you. Thier now seems to be no turning back as we said The Bible is not JUST mans thoughts and WAYS are JUST. Yea how many rights have you lost in the last 40 years since that supreme court decision that eroded our grandparents way of life? Or do all of you Hate your grandparents and Parents as they were GREAT ABUSERS? Because that is what you are really saying that they did not know thier head from a hole in the ground and you do. Sometimes the Truth of who and what we have become is a little frightening... Blessings...Miles well said |
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