Jess642,

Just a tiny clarification (I might have misinderstood your post) :

While I agree with the meaninglessness of all our fabrications,
... what do we do until death levels us all???

Aren't we condemned to 'waffling on' the best we can, with as little deceit as possible!!!

Wouldn't you 'waffle on' a parent abusing and deceiving his/her young child?

Wouldn't 'waffle on' a biggot, deceiving his children, and perpetuating racism???

Wouldn't you 'waffle on' a proselytizer, deceiving others by turning his/her beliefs into the only reality for all???

A clarification would be appreciated.

Deception is an interesting notion to entertain, is it not? Who has the right to decide if one is being deceived? If one's foundational belief features a transcendental element which purports the ontological notion that human existence cannot be completely understood by humans, then what constitutes warrant for a dismissal of such a belief? Furthermore, who holds the right to decide what measure that should/would be?

The transcendental safety net is in place.

If one deliberately proposes that a thing is true while knowing that it is not, then intent is called into question, and I believe that a strong case could be made that that person is intentionally being deceptive.

However, if a person honestly believes that that which they write, speak, or think is true, then how can a value of deception be warranted?

Do I have a right to waffle on?

No.... but I deceive myself into believing I do...

The impetus to act when witnessing an injustice.... is just that.... the impetus to do...

carrying on about 'rights'... 'beliefs'...and mandates, etc.... is illusionary...


it's pretty simple.... do much good..... not talk about 'rights'.


Please understand they are my ideals... my perspectives, my filters....I have much to unlearn.

The believers believe that Yahshua rose from the grave. Was the son of Yahweh.

A jew said a very interesting thing which of cource is recorded in the Bible.

He said" leave them alone if it is of man it will fade away, but if it is of Yahweh who can fight against it"

very true words.

It (The word)has been twisted and used for many of mans purposes.

yet today we still have it and through technology and discoveries find the words to be very accruate 2000 years later.

Remember in school the teacher saying something in one ear and then being passed along to each pupil untill the last one said what was 1st said?

How in the world could a fable of man last 2000 years?

Yet the scriptures tell us many signs that Yahshua is coming.

1 greatly increased knowledge. Like never before.

2. The greatest war machine of all time would be created.

Flaming arrows.. locusts looking machines that sting with thier tail. and many more descriptions of our war machines.

3.. Terror would increase so much that it will become every man for himself. Brother against brother, nieghbor against nieghbor, nation against nation.

4.. men would cry out that the word is not true and instead believe old wives tales.


5.. Sodom and Gomarrah's mentality would return.


6.. Men would be lovers of themselves not caring for others.

7 Evil would be called good and good would be called evil. ( this is constant with scripture in the last 50 years only)

8.. The 2 witnesses will come on the scene who has all the power that all the unbelievers claim is a fairy tale.

Will they believe? No they will seek to kill them and any who agree with them.

9.. Prophecy says when they are finally killed after 3 1/2 years thier bodies will be put on display for all the world to see. for 3 days.


has this ever been possible untill 20 years ago really even less than that.

10.. A great war will be fought because of the fear of the Messiah's coming.


We have just about all religions that I know of who at least claim Yahshua as a prophet.


11.. we are told 10 nations surround Israel who hate her and are told who they are. And it is just as the scriptures says.


The Arabs claim Abraham too. They have that right. They say Ishmael was Abraham's 1st born sone so they are the promiced people and it has been stolen from them.

Ishamael was but not the son of Promice that was Isaac.

Ishmael and Esua join forces and thier goal has been to wipe out the descendents of Isaac's son Jacob who became Israel ever since.


So war has been over the promiced land ever since.

Men warring for 3000+ years over a piece of property that was given to them by a make believe man in the sky.


But we through our knowledge have become the new Tower of Babel. Babylon so beautiful so smart but so cunning and decietful because who is going to be the head honcho.

Who will get to be like Elohim?

We follow along with a lie that something that has told us the future, been preserved for thousands of years is just make believe by a culture that did not understand.

In the same breath we will say Atlantis had to be here. No proof just a belief. I don't know.


But we have become so smart in our thinking that we possible could not believe in a creator.

We have tons of questions Why?

Never been answered.

Never been sought for. Only an idea that it could not be.


Our universities and colleges do thier best to dispell religious belief for random physics.

Do a pretty good job,get peer pressure in thier also but still they are mad at anyone who questions them , they just are not as smart as scientists.

So here comes the Tower of Babel and the 3rd Riech. The smart ones and the children who believe in the man in the sky.

For me I will believe the Man in the Sky because I have seen non scientific evidence but that is not the only reason.

Most believer i believe I can say that when they get upset they can just open the bible up as they Pray to the Skyman and behold the words of comfort are right thier in front of them that put them at ease.

Just like the words tell them they will be.

Blessings.of Shalom....Miles

Easier to read if I pick it up from here.



Confuse? Just so you get some perspective here - Ken Miller is the Pat Robinson of the Religion of Evolution. You point me to a Utube presentation of a Biased "preacher", and then say I'm shoving you over to investigate the other side - and you call this insane? Hey, don't bother to check with any contradictory idea's. Ever wonder why you are constantly questioned when you attempt to convince the "religious-faith" croud that you've got a clue as to how we think? You claim me to be confused about Ken Miller's presentation when he offers no evidence other htan his presumed interpretation of the "facts". Let me clue you in on a fact. Ken Miller knows no more than I do why the second chromosone "appears" to be fused. And do you know why? Because he cannot verify his theory. He can take all the apes on the planet and fuse their chromosones, and I'll guarentte you - he's not getting a human out if it. Only dead apes.



However - I'm not conprehending why you don't see why I'm not grasping these theories of Macro-evolution, when you elucidly give cause for why you don't believe Genesis. It is for the very same reasons. At least what I deduce from your posts. Your compaint is that Genesis cannot be proved. My complaint is that Macro-Evolution cannot be proved. You prefer to extrapolate micro-evolution back to equating evolving within a species as evolution of a species. I prefer to extrapolate it as species de-volving. I can see no refutation for this idea. Since it has been continually demonstrated that no information is added to DNA - but rather is LOST from DNA - I find it hard to justify that the transition of Ape into Man is possible, or even logical for that matter. It defies common sense. Much like those who think God's creating man from the dust of the earth defies common sense.



But you are missing the point. My belief in Genesis is not the causation of my disbelief in Macro-evolution. My disbelief in Macro-evolution stems from it's numerous inconsistancies and unprovable premises. Both Creation and Micro-Evolution have their own set of A priori.
The thing is - that one must accept one, or the other. You can't have both - they defy one another by definition. If one believes in Macro-evolution - than Genesis must be not only refuted, but disproved. This is only ever attempt by an appeal to authority. This so-and-so scientist, or that nobel-prize winner said it's this way, therfore it must be. Every time I ask ofr someone to support their claim that evolution is a proven fact - they send me to an evolutionary preacher. I think I've seen every U-Tube sermon on evolution now - and somehow I'm not left with any "proof". No verifyable experiment to point out as evidence of the claim. Only - "well look at the fossils". All I see when I look at fossils is a dead creature that was created. One has to "stretch" one's faith to think it's anything more than that.



This is my point as well. I don't much concern myself with anyone having faith in Macro-evolution. When they attempt to make it more than that - and assume that their faith in extrapolation cancels out my faith in the validity of eye-witness, I take issue. I don't claim their faith in the "religion of evolution" is a false one, I claim that their faith in it makes it a "science", and now attempt to convince me that I don't understand science because I don't have faith like they do. Well - if my faith in creation doesn't make it fact - I would like a comprehensive explination why an evolutionist's faith makes Macro-evolution fact?
At least Creationism has had it's adherants for well over a few thousand years. Evolution had to wait for a disgruntled and angry pseudo-christian to testify on their religion.

So, until someone can demonstrate to me that Evolution is not a faithed based religion - I can't preusume it anything but. And this has no bearing on the Validity of Geneisis at all. The less one thinks that Genesis is true, does not make evolution any more verifyable - or believable.

why did it take you so long to say this?

This endless battle between the theory of evolution and the theory of intelligent design will probably lead no where if both sides don't change their way of thinking completely.

I can't help but think that the truth lies somewhere in between both ideas, but I don't see either camp getting any closer to that solution.

Hard core atheists who don't believe in anything but concrete reality, and don't believe in an intelligent connected universe seem to believe that everything is a random accident and there is no creative intelligent design going on anywhere.

Fundamentalist Christians who can't deviate from the literal words in the Bible are also trapped into an ancient mindset and are basically not allowed to consider the scientific approach.

But if both could drop their current theories or beliefs they would find that there is a good explanation for all so called miracles and myths, and scientific paradoxes.

That solution is a thought created holographic model of reality, manifested by an energy field that is a universal collective mind.