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Topic: Define: Consciousness
notquite00's photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:34 AM
Define: Consciousness
--Do so as precisely as you can.

Try to stay on-topic! (lmao not!)

Shagwell's photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:38 AM
a set of circumstances checked against one's own set of values to be evaluated whether it's ok to go ahead with it or not! ohwell

darkowl1's photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:40 AM
alert, aware of everything around you, "awake" means you can look at the big picture, and see where we are going as a species, and "feel" how big our universe actually is..

no photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:40 AM

a set of circumstances checked against one's own set of values to be evaluated whether it's ok to go ahead with it or not! ohwell
OKkkkk. sounds good to me thought I was Lost on last thread....lol...somebody better start looking for me...LMAO...huh ohwell

no photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:59 AM
I drink

therefore I am

Dan99's photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:59 AM
I stink therefore i am

notquite00's photo
Mon 02/02/09 12:01 PM
Edited by notquite00 on Mon 02/02/09 12:02 PM
Awesome. These are good definitions.

a set of circumstances checked against one's own set of values to be evaluated whether it's ok to go ahead with it or not!


So, is there a difference between your definition of consciousness and lines of code in a computer?

For example, I make write a program that reads like this:

1 Display: What is the color of the sky?
2 Input: Orange.
3 Output: Incorrect. Try again...

OR

2 Input: Blue.
3 Output: Correct.
4 Display: What is the color of the clouds?

My program has reacted to a set of circumstances by checking against its own values, then deciding whether it's "okay to go ahead" with the next question.

Finally, the question is: Is the computer conscious on an absurdly basic level? That is, is the computer conscious only of its questions, your answers, and its values...or can this even be called consciousness?


alert, aware of everything around you, "awake" means you can look at the big picture, and see where we are going as a species, and "feel" how big our universe actually is..


Are you aware of the bed behind you while you're reading this comment (assuming there's a bed behind you)? Or were you not really conscious or aware of it until I mentioned it? How about the second red blood cell that you created today? Are you aware of that blood cell? And the speck of dust on the floor to your right? What do you define as "everything around you?"

If you define consciousness as being aware of the "big picture," of our species, and you "'feel' how big our universe actually is," then is a small child at birth unconscious? What about a cat, which is aware of its species? What about Man before it knew there was such a thing as a "universe?" If a child and a cat and early Man could be called "unconscious," then what do we call them when they lose consciousness, i.e. are knocked out? Are they unconscious then as well?

Sorry to be picky. ;-) This is just for fun, I suppose, but that shouldn't stop us from getting somewhere interesting.

somebody better start looking for me


*notquite00 begins the search for 2KidsMom*

ljcc1964's photo
Mon 02/02/09 12:03 PM
A mental, emotional, physical sensational state of perception or awareness of an object or concept with respect to one's self.

notquite00's photo
Mon 02/02/09 12:12 PM
Edited by notquite00 on Mon 02/02/09 12:16 PM

A mental, emotional, physical sensational state of perception or awareness of an object or concept with respect to one's self.


Wow, nice one.

What do you mean by a mental or emotional sensational state of perception though?

Mental means something involving the mind, but we cannot perceive without the mind, so perhaps your statement can be simplified to exclude "mental."

Can I be conscious without feeling an emotion such as happiness, fear, contempt, etc? Can I be conscious on a piece of dirt or a piece of paper without having an emotional reaction? Perhaps not, but it's debatable. Emotion...that's very interesting that you mentioned that, I think, because it makes things more complicated, and my example with the computer perhaps does not work. I suppose we'd have to delve deeper and define emotion to get a better handle on that...

I like that you wrote "perception or awareness of an object or concept with respect to one's self." However, my program above perceives, that is, receives input from the person typing "Blue." It checks this input with respect to itself, that is with respect to the different criteria and values it has. Again, is the program conscious on a very basic level?

As for physical: what happens if someone is paralyzed and cannot feel anything part of his body at all. Is this person conscious because he lacks a physical sensation but can still think? I'd say this person is still conscious, so perhaps "physical" can be excluded as well.



Lemme just mention that I had a similar debate with a suite mate of mine, and I'm just trying to work it through with you guys as well. We never really mentioned "emotion" in the definition, though, so I think that's pretty cool. I don't know if I'm ready to define "emotion" yet though...more practice at this philosophy things is needed, I guess. Anyway, maybe I'll tell you guys more about how the talk started later...

ljcc1964's photo
Mon 02/02/09 12:17 PM
Edited by ljcc1964 on Mon 02/02/09 12:43 PM


A mental, emotional, physical sensational state of perception or awareness of an object or concept with respect to one's self.


Wow, nice one.

What do you mean by a mental or emotional sensational state of perception though?

Mental means something involving the mind, but we cannot perceive without the mind, so perhaps your statement can be simplified to exclude "mental."

Can I be conscious without feeling an emotion such as happiness, fear, contempt, etc? Can I be conscious on a piece of dirt or a piece of paper without having an emotional reaction? Perhaps not, but it's debatable. Emotion...that's very interesting that you mentioned that, I think, because it makes things more complicated, and my example with the computer perhaps does not work. I suppose we'd have to delve deeper and define emotion to get a better handle on that...

I like that you wrote "perception or awareness of an object or concept with respect to one's self." However, my program above perceives, that is, receives input from the person typing "Blue." It checks this input with respect to itself, that is with respect to the different criteria and values it has. Again, is the program conscious on a very basic level?



I meant to put the word "or" in there and just forgot. Mental, emotional OR physical sensational state.....and I was in a hurry, so I'm sure I missed some states....including any combination of them.

notquite00's photo
Mon 02/02/09 12:34 PM
Edited by notquite00 on Mon 02/02/09 12:34 PM

no photo
Mon 02/02/09 03:36 PM
I dont have a great definition that is not similar to what has been posted, but this is the reference I am reading right now to help better understand.

http://eprints.assc.caltech.edu/353/01/Baars_-_Theater_Consciousness_-_JCS_1997.pdf

notquite00's photo
Mon 02/02/09 03:52 PM
Oops, I'm running a version of Linux that doesn't sense my hard drive from a bootable CD, so I can't save sh!t. I don't even have the ability to open PDFs at the moment. ^_^


*notquite00 is very disappointed*

Myrrdin's photo
Mon 02/02/09 03:53 PM
That annoying time between naps smokin

ThomasJB's photo
Mon 02/02/09 06:12 PM
It is all an illusion. I'm dreaming: life, the universe, and everything are just one wild dream.

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 02/02/09 06:44 PM
Edited by Redykeulous on Mon 02/02/09 06:46 PM
Consciousness - the awareness of everything going on around you and inside your head at any given moment including thoughts, sensations, feelings.

The state of waking consciousness is when thoughts, feelings and sensations are clear and organized.

Of course this does not account for altered states of mind, which might still be conscious variations.

Oh - I forgot to add - no it is not like a computer, actually it is often better, just not necessarily as acurate.

Dan99's photo
Mon 02/02/09 07:00 PM
Consciousness

Con - Against

Scious - Knowing, having knowledge

Ness - A large Scottish Loch, with a famous monster living in its depths.


Consciousness - The ability to eat haggis whilst knowing what it is made out of.

no photo
Tue 02/03/09 03:28 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Tue 02/03/09 03:29 PM
Lots of good observations.

I really dig the opening few paragraphs to that pdf I linked.

I will copy some here for the OP.

One dramatic contrast is between the vast number of
unconscious neural processes happening in any given
moment, compared to the very narrow bottleneck of
conscious capacity. The narrow limits of consciousness
have a compensating advantage: consciousness seems to act
as a gateway, creating access to essentially any part of the
nervous system. Even single neurons can be controlled by
way of conscious feedback. Conscious experience creates
@ Bernard J. Baars, 1997, Theater of Consciousness. J Consciousness Studies. p. 3
access to the mental lexicon, to autobiographical memory,
and to voluntary control over automatic action routines.
Daniel C. Dennett has suggested that consciousness may
itself be viewed as that to which ‘we’ have access
(Dennett, 1978) All these facts may be summed up by
saying that consciousness creates global access.

How can we understand the evidence? The best
answer today is a ‘global workspace architecture’, first
developed by cognitive modelling groups led by Alan
Newell and Herbert A. Simon. This mental architecture
can be described informally as a working theatre. Working
theatres are not just ‘Cartesian’ daydreams — they do real
things, just like real theatres (Dennett & Kinsbourne, 1992;
Newell, 1990). They have a marked resemblance to other
current accounts (e.g. Damasio, 1989; Gazzaniga, 1993;
Shallice, 1988; Velmans, 1996). In the working theatre,
focal consciousness acts as a ‘bright spot’ on the stage,
directed there by the selective ‘spotlight’ of attention.
The bright spot is further surrounded by a ‘fringe,’ of vital but
vaguely conscious events (Mangan, 1993).

The entire stage
of the theatre corresponds to ‘working memory’, the
immediate memory system in which we talk to ourselves,
visualize places and people, and plan actions. Information
from the bright spot is globally distributed through the
theatre, to two classes of complex unconscious processors:
those in the darkened theatre ‘audience’ mainly receive
information from the bright spot; while ‘behind the scenes’,
unconscious contextual systems shape events in the bright
spot. One example of such a context is the unconscious
philosophical
assumptions with which we tend to approach
the topic of consciousness. Another is the right parietal map
that creates a spatial context for visual scenes (Kinsbourne,
1993).
Baars (1983;1988; 1997) has developed these
arguments in great detail, and aspects of this framework
have now been taken up by others, such as the philosopher
David Chalmers (1996). Some brain implications of the
theory have been explored. Global Workspace (GW) theory
provides the most useful framework to date for our rapidly
accumulating body of evidence. It is consistent with our
current knowledge, and can be enriched to include other
aspects of human experience.


creativesoul's photo
Tue 02/03/09 10:53 PM
Being or becoming self-aware is to have consciousness.

The difference between us and AI is the same difference between us and most other animals.

We can change our beliefs(parts of the program) based upon new information which we later perceive to be of greater value(truth).

We have the ability to voluntarily go against what we were originally taught.

We can change our minds.

By the way, we do perceive with our brains at times without consciously thinking about that which we are perceiving. That is another difference between us and AI.

Our unconscious apperception directly affects how our conscious mind frames any given current experience.

flowerforyou

transientmind's photo
Wed 02/04/09 03:58 AM

Consciousness

Con - Against

Scious - Knowing, having knowledge

Ness - A large Scottish Loch, with a famous monster living in its depths.


Consciousness - The ability to eat haggis whilst knowing what it is made out of.
For public record, that would be Haggisdomesticus Beerscratchimus.


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