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| Topic: Atheism Weak or Strong | |
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For that matter prove Hitler's a Christian. You're the one making the grossly preposterous claim that he was a Christian... Krimsa has posted quote after quote, from Hitler's autobiography "Mein Kampf" All you have posted is "this guy says. . ." How/why is your "evidence" better then Krimsa's? He cited his sources at the bottom of the page. |
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So what. I cited all of my sources also. How are yours any better?
Please show me a quote from Hitler. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 01/27/09 04:40 PM
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This is taken from your supposed "Agnostic Historian's" Website. This is a quote from his own site.
"Having convinced me He existed, God then sent a very eloquent young man to speak to me. He worked in the same Macdonald's and was a college evangelical away for a summer of sun and Jesus by the coast. Being evangelized is no surprise to an American but in England it just didn't happen and I did everything I possibly could to argue against him. He convinced me that Christianity was internally consistent but not that it was true." Edward Bartlett-Jones Thats creepy. I bet they made out. 
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I think we are straying off topic again with the bromance and what is with the obsession with Nazi's.
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So what. I cited all of my sources also. How are yours any better? Please show me a quote from Hitler. It's astounding to me that you'd take Adolph Hitler's word as all holy truth but the words and life of Jesus Christ just flys right past ya... I'm finished with this discussion. Thank you...It's been very informative. peace... |
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So what. I cited all of my sources also. How are yours any better? Please show me a quote from Hitler. It's astounding to me that you'd take Adolph Hitler's word as all holy truth but the words and life of Jesus Christ just flys right past ya... I'm finished with this discussion. Thank you...It's been very informative. peace... When it comes to what someone beliefs, I am going to trust the words that come out of their own mouths. |
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Allen,
Dont get mad. Im only asking for quotes because I have quotes. Otherwise there is no debate. Prove to me that Hitler was not a Christian by his own words. We can both cite people on either side of the fence yet the real proof is in what Hitler said and did. Wouldn't you agree that is a valid assessment of the man? |
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whoa whoa whoa....
wait a second... i thought that anyone that's a member of [insert random religion here] isn't capable of being a bad guy.... 
ahhh...crap...i'm full of fail 
-- -- -- -- seriously though, lets keep a light spirit about all this. nobody's saying anything bad about [insert random religion here] - they're just making the point that "the religion (or lack there of) doesn't make the man" if one's religion did play a definite and excessive part of their personality, there where does that line of thought end? does my political party make me a good guy / bad guy? how about what school i attended? shoe size? cash in the bank? toppings on a pizza? 
lighten up gang 
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Besides Eljay, there were no Born Agains back in 1930s Germany I dont think. However Germany was the most heavily Christianized nation in all of Europe at that point in history. Bonhoffer was a born again. Hitler imprisoned him. What do you mean when you say "Germany was the most heavily Christainized nation"? There's no way to determine if that is fact or not. You cant be serious. Martin Luther? Protestant Church? 
Yeah - well there's one. So we're up to two now. Do you think it mattered that Martin Luther lived about 300 or so years before Nazi Germany? But I won't go as far as to say you're wrong. Just hard to prove it as fact. |
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Hitler was a Catholic. To me, and I suspect many people, that would make him a Christian. That is a problem, because it demonstrates that you are unclear on the concept of what a christain is. Why is that? How can you at least not know how one becomes a christain? I'm not saying you have to become one yourself - but if you are going to argue these points with those who know EXACTLY what is necessary to become a christain, you should at least be as knowledgeable about the topic as those who you claim to know at least as much as they do. I think your personal understanding of what is necessary to become a Christian is not the same as the general and accepted one in society. If you claim to be one, if you believe in the Jesus story, if you go to a Christian Church, you are considered a Christian. They don't have to carry I.D. cards or wear arm bands. They don't have to show their official Christian membership card signed by Jesus. Your particular belief is of what a Christian is, happens to be part of your particular belief. It has nothing to do with societies view of christainity, and everything to do with what the bible says. Where does society get it's idea of christianity if not from the bible? You don't have to be a "card carrying member" - but you can be sure, that if you order the extermination of over 6 million Jews, you aren't a card carrying member. That's just plain OBVIOUS! Your actions and words demonstrate whether you're a card carrying member or not. Then I have an idea. Anyone who is not a real Christian, and anyone who does not love thy neighbor and practice what Jesus taught, should be kicked out of the Religion and not allowed to tell people they are Christians. That includes the Bush family and Obama and anyone else. That includes anyone who puts on a uniform and invades another country and anyone who pays taxes to support that effort. But then, who would enforce this rule? Certainly not true Christians. 
Answer this all you "Born again" Christians and 'other'Christians,: Do you pay taxes? Do you support this illegal war? If you do, then you are not true Christians, you are just pretending to be. But those are not criteria either. And nowhere does it say a christain won't sin - but it does say that if a christain claims to be in the light and does not walk in the light, they decieve themselves. We are to "render unto Caesar - that which is Caesar's". So we pay taxes. It isn't our responsibility that those taxes are used to support those things to which we don't agree - like a War, the ACLU, Abortion, secular schools, the matting habits of the east overshoe slug... the list goes on. What makes a war "illegal"? |
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People were shot on the spot, imprisoned, if they did not obey Hitler. Smiless even covered this...Smiless knows..he is from Germany. Hitler's actions were that of a severe personality disorder...a sociopath . Now Krimsa? With all the sharing here, surely you "GOT IT" by now ? That Hitler's actions were NOT those of a christian ? Right? All I have seen is that one side has provided quote after quote FROM HITLER regarding his beliefs, while the other side just repeats the same, tired, He wasn't a "true" member argument. How can you make the claim that Hitler's actions were not those of a christian, when history indicates otherwise? (the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch trails. . .) The actions of a christain are demonstrated from the bible - NOT from History. If that were the case, then we could not even hold Christianity accountable for any of these atrocities. We might as well not even teach school age children about these historic events because it makes Christianity appear "evil and manipulative." Lets just tear all of it out of every text book used in American public schools today. We can have a big book burning but only the sections detailing Hitler, the Crusades, the Witch Burning, Genocide in Rwanda, the Missions, Columbus because they all weren't "real Christians." 
I don't attribute these acts to "christains" - they were the acts of the Catholic church. You are holding the actions of men to that of an idiology. The same would be said for blaming "Islam" for 9/11, rather than radicals who have interpreted Islam for their personal Jihad. I don't blame the muslims who own the 7-11 down the street for the attacks on 9/11, any more than I blame Christainity for the acts of the Catholic church. |
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I'm not making the blanket statement that all those who claim to be christains are not. But when someone who claims to be christian demonstrates by their actions that they're a walking contradiction, it's safe to doubt their claim. Hitler is a good example of this. Jim Jones would fall into that catagory. Charles Manson. I don't have any difficulty doubting their claim of being christains. But even as a christian, I know that no one goes a day without sinning. It is the repeated actions and the denial that those actions are wrong that brings about doubt. It doesn't boil down to an opinion - but an observation. I will probably assume most people are not "true Christians" until they walk in the ways taught by Jesus, which are the ways of love. I know some 'Christians" who live by love who are not actually involved with religion at all nor do they claim to be Christian or that Jesus is the savior. Love is the savior. God is love after all. You can't tell me a person who practices Love and goodness is going to hell just because they don't buy into the Biblical picture of Jesus or God. "Jesus" is simply a symbolic name, and an ideal that represents the salvation of the Path of LOVE. One can follow that idea and that path without ever having read the Bible or gone to church. God is also Just. To you - Jesus may be symbolic. In my life, he is not a symbol. He walked this earth, and I have no reason to think he was not who he said he was. Nor do I have any reason to doubt those individuals who walked with him, and gave an account of that journey. What evidence do I have to doubt their integrity? Do you know something I don't about these men who wrote the bible? |
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Moses was pretty evil; he killed an Egyptian and then buried him in the sand.
Yes - he was. Abraham was a liar. David was a liar, a murderer and an Adulterer. As a matter of fact - there has only been one person who ever walked this earth who was not evil. His name was Jesus. |
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Yes that’s true and Moses didn’t exist. No where in any Egyptian hieroglyphs does it ever discuss anyone like him. The Egyptians documented everything. It’s all conjured up and fictititous. Yep I agree, but he exists as a fictional character, held in high esteem. And I don't think any of the characters in the New Testament existed either except in fiction, but they have become real to people so I speak of them as real to people who believe they are real. So Nero didn't exist? I think there is an extremely large Historical society who would disagree with you. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Wed 01/28/09 01:46 AM
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No True Scotsman Why then was the German Christian population so smitten with Hitler then? Why did they wantonly choose to put him into power? It probably had nothing to do with the fact that he pitted the Christian German population against the Jews did it? Semitic religious Jews are the ones who are betrayed and persecuted, and the other Jews are the ones responsible for it. They have been called also "The sons of Cain." Offspring of Satan. But they have the blood of the fallen angels who mated with human women in their veins. ...OK.....already clarified this twice before....yet... you keep posting it again Jeannie!! Once more: There are NO offsprings of SATAN. NOT FOUND ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE!! This twisting of scripture is just another tactic the enemy is using, to distort the gospel message, Jeannie. Told you this before. YET you still keep posting it. Wanna learn truth here, Jeannie.....or keep playing games. Your choice. At our age,Jeannie....we should be quite mature by now....and setting examples for others. Instead of still playing chidish games. Ya think? 
Jeannie....what if I went thru your "readings" ..... and then proceeded to re-post them here on the forum... but with the wording slightly twisted....to mean something entirely different? Would you be ok with that? ( REAL friends will not only care, but will also be upfront with you) 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 01/28/09 04:06 AM
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Besides Eljay, there were no Born Agains back in 1930s Germany I dont think. However Germany was the most heavily Christianized nation in all of Europe at that point in history. Bonhoffer was a born again. Hitler imprisoned him. What do you mean when you say "Germany was the most heavily Christainized nation"? There's no way to determine if that is fact or not. You cant be serious. Martin Luther? Protestant Church?
Yeah - well there's one. So we're up to two now. Do you think it mattered that Martin Luther lived about 300 or so years before Nazi Germany? But I won't go as far as to say you're wrong. Just hard to prove it as fact. What do you not understand here? Martin Luther was a German monk. Germany was the most Christenized nation in all of Europe at that point in history. It was the actual birthplace of Protestantism Your lack of historical knowledge is staggering to me at times. |
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So what are you trying to say?
Who are you talking to? You need to use the quote feature. That would be helpful. |
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I think we are straying off topic again with the bromance and what is with the obsession with Nazi's. Because there has been at least 10 threads about it. Sometimes (like in the case of this thread) the OP was not even addressing Hitler but then someone mentions him and it incites a huge debate over his faith. |
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Eljay said:
But those are not criteria either. And nowhere does it say a christain won't sin
That’s right Eljay. Wow we actually agree on something. So by this admission alone you can explain Adolph Hitler and all of the other atrocities committed by Christians and Atheists and anyone else. Although an Atheist does not entertain the notion of "sin" they still have a clear understanding of right and wrong. Hitler was a man and he made some very poor decisions because he was fanatical, probably a sociopath or suffering from some form of borderline personality disorder. He was a Catholic, yet ANYONE is capable of committing sin or perpetrating a wrong. |
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People were shot on the spot, imprisoned, if they did not obey Hitler. Smiless even covered this...Smiless knows..he is from Germany. Hitler's actions were that of a severe personality disorder...a sociopath . Now Krimsa? With all the sharing here, surely you "GOT IT" by now ? That Hitler's actions were NOT those of a christian ? Right? All I have seen is that one side has provided quote after quote FROM HITLER regarding his beliefs, while the other side just repeats the same, tired, He wasn't a "true" member argument. How can you make the claim that Hitler's actions were not those of a christian, when history indicates otherwise? (the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch trails. . .) The actions of a christain are demonstrated from the bible - NOT from History. If that were the case, then we could not even hold Christianity accountable for any of these atrocities. We might as well not even teach school age children about these historic events because it makes Christianity appear "evil and manipulative." Lets just tear all of it out of every text book used in American public schools today. We can have a big book burning but only the sections detailing Hitler, the Crusades, the Witch Burning, Genocide in Rwanda, the Missions, Columbus because they all weren't "real Christians."
I don't attribute these acts to "christains" - they were the acts of the Catholic church. You are holding the actions of men to that of an idiology. The same would be said for blaming "Islam" for 9/11, rather than radicals who have interpreted Islam for their personal Jihad. I don't blame the muslims who own the 7-11 down the street for the attacks on 9/11, any more than I blame Christainity for the acts of the Catholic church. I have never sat here and made the claim that ONLY the Christians are guilty of these atrocities throughout history. I hold the Muslims responsible for murderous deeds and the Jews in Israel. Historically all three of these religions have perpetrated acts that resulted in tremendous harm and devastation. In many cases, Christian pitted against Jew. Hitler is one of those examples. |
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