Topic: The Unmedicated Mind : WSJ Article
no photo
Fri 01/02/09 10:30 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118428285736265304.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

By NANCY KEATES

From lobotomies with ice picks to early antidepressants that caused brain hemorrhaging, Americans have a complicated and ever-changing approach to treating mental illness. Now, spurred by the growing disenchantment with antidepressants, an increasing number of people are seeking treatment for depression, anxiety and eating disorders from naturopaths, acupuncturists and even chiropractors. At the same time, more traditional psychiatrists are incorporating massage and meditation in their practices.

The treatments go beyond needles and spinal manipulation. They include Emotional Freedom Techniques -- tapping on the body's "energy meridians" as the patient thinks about upsetting incidents -- and craniosacral therapy, which involves a gentle rocking of the head, neck, spine and pelvis. In cranial electrotherapy stimulation, a AA-battery-powered device sends mild electrical currents to the brain. (The procedure has its roots in ancient Greek medicine, when electric eels were used.) Clinicians are also prescribing supplements like omega-3 fatty acids, found in fish oil, or amino acids like L-theanine, found in green tea.

Sarah Spring had been in therapy with a psychiatrist and on the antidepressant Wellbutrin for four years to work through a childhood trauma, but felt she wasn't making any progress. So she went to a naturopath -- a practitioner trained in holistic therapy and alternative treatments like herbal medicine and nutrition. (They attend a four-year naturopathic school -- a bachelor's degree is a prerequisite -- but only 15 states license naturopaths.) After two sessions of Emotional Freedom Techniques, the tapping treatment that is meant to clear emotions and restore balance, Ms. Spring says she doesn't get the same shortness of breath and accelerated heart rate she used to. "It's remarkable," says the Portland, Ore., marketing manager, who just started to decrease her dose of Wellbutrin.

To address the growing interest from professionals, Harvard Medical School's Department of Continuing Education will have three classes on complementary and alternative medicine in psychiatry over the next year, up from one a year since the class was introduced in 2003. David Mischoulon, an assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard, says doctors who have attended the class report that more patients are asking for alternative treatments -- due to the side effects of antidepressants, as well as a lack of response to the medication. Only about half of patients who take antidepressants respond, he says. "It is time to broaden the horizons," he says.

But there is no proof that many of these methods work for treating mental illness. One large study found Emotional Freedom Techniques were no more effective than a placebo, while evidence is limited for acupuncture and fish oil (thought to reduce some types of depression) in the treatment of mental health problems. Using herbal supplements with conventional medicine can be dangerous, psychiatrists say. "There are always snake oil salesmen," says Carolyn Rabinowitz, president of the American Psychiatric Association.

Traditional therapists worry that alternative treatments might sway patients to give up conventional treatments too quickly. "People with very little data often say, 'This works,' " says Philip Muskin, Chief of Consultation-Liaison Psychiatry at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center in New York. A psychiatrist and trained hypnotist, Dr. Muskin believes that wellness techniques like yoga, herbs and acupuncture can make people feel better psychologically. But he says alternative providers don't have adequate training to diagnose or treat severe mental-health disorders. "Many think if you get your liver and spleen into the right balance that will help," he says.
Safety Concerns

In any one-year period, 9.5% of the population, or about 20.9 million American adults, suffer from a mood disorder, according to the National Institute of Mental Health. A study by the World Health Organization, Harvard University School of Public Health and the World Bank found that by the year 2030, depression will be second only to HIV/AIDS in terms of disability caused world-wide.

A backlash against antidepressants sparked by concerns about their safety, efficacy and side effects is helping drive patients to alternative methods. Some 80% of antidepressants are currently prescribed by primary doctors who often diagnose depression in a 20-minute visit and don't provide accompanying therapy or help manage side effects.

Sales of all classes of antidepressants were $13.5 billion in 2006, down from a peak of $13.8 billion in 2004, according to IMS Health, a health-care information company. Usage of selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) dropped in 2005 after warnings about side effects -- particularly the risk of suicidal behavior in people aged 25 and under, which prompted the Food and Drug Administration to order drug makers to add warnings to their packaging in 2004. The introduction of generics onto the market (most recently, for Zoloft) also contributed to lower sales.

A spokesman for the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America says pharmaceuticals like antidepressants undergo a rigorous assessment of benefits and risks by the FDA. Other methods have been used to treat depression historically, he says, but pharmaceuticals do and will continue to play a large role in therapy.

At the same time, the rise of managed care and changes in Medicaid and Medicare have resulted in companies paying far less for mental health coverage. Employer spending on mental health care dropped to 1.3% of an employee's medical care costs in 2006, from 10.9% in 1988, according to employee-benefits firm Towers Perrin. While most employees with health insurance have some mental-health coverage, only 13% have coverage for an unlimited number of outpatient visits to providers such as psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers, says a 2006 survey of employers by the Kaiser Family Foundation. That's down from 19% in 2004. Most insurance policies pay for a limited number of visits, often 20 or 30 per year, and some put a cap on the dollars they'll pay.

Over the past decade, insurers have started covering more alternative procedures. Plans vary, from unlimited visits to 12 or 20 visits per year, according to Doug Metz, Chief Health Services Officer at American Specialty Health, which runs complementary medicine benefits plans for insurance companies. Co-payments typically run $10 to $20, and plans limit the reasons for visits to scientifically proven techniques -- which generally does not include treatments for mental health. While coverage for visits to naturopaths is mandated by law in Connecticut, Vermont and Washington, employers can still limit the number of visits and restrict it to a network.

Aetna, for one, will cover acupuncture used to treat migraine headaches or chronic lower back pain, but not for depression; it will cover biofeedback for migraines, but not stress. The options are growing: Starting this month, members can get at least 25% off standard fees for visits to an approved list of 19,000 credentialed "natural therapy professionals," including massage therapists and dietetic counselors, for any condition. (Standard fees for a first-time acupuncturist visit can be $90 to $120.)

The shift comes as scientific research sheds new light on the causes of depression. The use of SSRIs, introduced in the 1980s, aim to increase levels of serotonin in the brain. More recent research suggests that a range of factors -- including genetic predisposition and hormones linked to stress -- can play a role.

Proponents of alternative medicine say the wide range of treatments used address broader causes like hormonal imbalances and stress. Treatment can mean spending time talking to patients about their physical and emotional problems, examining their diet and exercise habits, and doing blood tests to look for medical or environmental causes for depression, such as Lyme disease, toxic chemicals or mold.

In Los Angeles, naturopath Holly Lucille has seen 30% more patients in the past two years whose chief complaint is mental-health-related, while Sara Thyr, a naturopath in Manchester and Concord, N.H., has seen a 20% rise. Margot Longenecker's naturopathy practice in Branford and Wallingford, Conn., now has half of its patients come for anxiety and depression, compared with 25% three years ago.

"Half the time you feel like you have a psychiatric degree more than a chiropractic degree," says Basking Ridge, N.J., chiropractor Jerry Szych, who's seen a 25% rise in patients seeking counseling services over the same period. Columbus, Ohio, chiropractor Ronald Farabaugh says he has seen an increase of 20% over the past three years in those cases.

Melissa Mannon, a 36-year-old photographer in Bedford, N.H., saw psychologists for years about her depression and anxiety. Then she visited a naturopath for help with infertility, and was diagnosed with an intolerance to 90 different foods, including gluten. She changed her diet and within seven months, she got pregnant and most of her anxiety and depression went away, she says. She still sees her naturopath if she's feeling down and to discuss what's happening in her life. "She understands me," says Ms. Mannon.

Some say the extra time and intimacy of the treatments can encourage patients to open up. Naturopath Mark Sanders, who has seen the number of patients coming for mental health rise threefold to about 60% since he started his practice five years ago, says patients tend to open up when he performs craniosacral therapy. (It is meant to ease stress and improve physical movement.) "I've had people tell me stuff they don't tell their therapist," he says.

Stanford University Medical School clinical professor of medicine Kenneth Pelletier says chiropractors and naturopaths aren't adequately trained to recognize true psychopathology. But Dr. Pelletier believes most of these practitioners are ethical about remaining within the scope of their practice and refer patients to licensed mental-health-care practitioners when they think the diagnoses are severe.

That's what Portland, Ore., naturopath Samantha Brody has been doing as she increasingly sees patients with eating disorders, anxiety and depression. While the stigma of seeing a shrink may have declined in cities like New York and Los Angeles, it is alive and well in Portland, and some patients won't follow up on her referrals. Still, Ms. Brody steers away from serious counseling. "I don't dig into childhood stuff," she says.

Cheryl Higgins started seeing Ms. Brody three years ago for acupuncture because her back hurt. She was also driving her friends crazy by trying to use them as therapists and needed an outlet for her anxiety and depression. "I spilled my guts to her at the first session," says the 26-year-old office manager. Her treatment: chemical and amino-acid supplements, plus acupuncture three times a week.

Ms. Higgins hesitated to follow Ms. Brody's referral to a psychologist, but eventually she did see one who recommended that her primary care doctor put her on an antidepressant. She went on Lexapro for nine months, then went back to the naturopath to help her get off of it. "It made me yawn all the time," she says.

While the research is limited, some studies have shown promise in using alternative methods to treat mental illness. A recent study at Boston University School of Medicine and McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass., showed a neurochemical response to the practice of yoga that's similar to neurochemical responses seen when people are treated with antidepressants.

Even pharmaceutical companies are starting to look at ingredients that have traditionally been part of natural medicine. Last year, Novartis bought the U.S. rights to a drug called agomelatine -- a melatonin-related agonist that is thought to influence mood in part through the sleep-wake cycle.

Of course, alternative medicine has been used for mental health issues for years. A 2001 study by Ron Kessler and David Eisenberg at Harvard Medical School found that among those with anxiety and or depression, more than half used alternative medicine therapies; among those who sought the treatment of a licensed conventional provider, two-thirds also used alternative medicine during the prior year. The perceived helpfulness of the alternative therapies was similar to the perceived helpfulness of conventional therapies.

Some critics say the growing interest is, in a sense, a step backwards. As people become frustrated with the shortcomings of new treatments, they become more inclined to try age-old therapies, regardless of whether they've been rigorously tested. The treatment of depression is "a constant succession of hyped theories and overall pathetically little progress," says John Horgan, director of the Center for Science Writings at the Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, N.J.
Serious Applications

Now, community clinics are using the approach. The Mental Health Center of Greater Manchester, N.H. -- which combines traditional psychiatry with naturopathic treatments for seriously mentally ill patients -- received a two-year grant last summer from the New York-based Ittleson Foundation to promote the intermingling of naturopathy and psychiatry. "It's just a better way to approach the problem," says Ronald Parks, an internist and psychiatrist in Asheville, N.C., who uses alternative methods and was just approached to create a community-based model near his practice.

Aliza Sherman Risdahl agrees. She began experiencing uncontrollable rage, irritation and anxiety after the birth of her daughter. Though the 42-year-old Anchorage, Alaska, consultant was already seeing a therapist, she didn't want to go on antidepressants. She turned to a naturopath, who diagnosed her with overactive adrenal glands and suggested an amino acid to spray under her tongue.

Now she's no longer throwing dirty plates from the dinner table up in the air, screaming at her husband to "give me the baby, you can't keep her from me!" and running through the house slamming doors and cursing at him. "I am so grateful," she says.

Winx's photo
Fri 01/02/09 10:35 AM
This bothers me that this happens. I wish people wouldn't let their primary doctors prescribe their antidepressants. They aren't qualified to do so.:

"Some 80% of antidepressants are currently prescribed by primary doctors who often diagnose depression in a 20-minute visit and don't provide accompanying therapy or help manage side effects."

no photo
Fri 01/02/09 10:41 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 01/02/09 10:45 AM
I really have to give props to TWSJ for posting this very informative look at "alternative" medicine and why as a society we are more accepting of these kinds of alternatives.

Now for the science.


TREATMENT: Acupuncture

WHAT IT IS: Sticking needles in acupoints

REPORT CARD: The theory is that acupoints along invisible meridians act as channels for the flow of vital energy. Benefits in treating depression are limited; more research is needed.


TREATMENT: Craniosacral Therapy

WHAT IT IS: A gentle rocking massage of the head, neck, spine and pelvis

REPORT CARD: It's meant to ease stress and improve physical movement. A 1999 study by the British Columbia Office of Health Technology Assessment concluded that the theory is invalid and that practitioners cannot reliably measure results. A 2002 study found no diagnostic reliability.



TREATMENT: Emotional Freedom Techniques

WHAT IT IS: Tapping on the body's "energy meridians"

REPORT CARD: Several studies (including from Queens College in New York) found that it relieved fear in people with phobias of small animals more effectively than deep breathing relaxation. A larger trial subsequently found that EFT had the same effect as a placebo.



TREATMENT: Valerian

WHAT IT IS: An herb

REPORT CARD: Several studies have reported benefits in reducing non-specific anxiety symptoms. However, most studies have been small and poorly designed, and are considered inconclusive.



TREATMENT: SAM-e

WHAT IT IS: A chemical sold as a dietary supplement

REPORT CARD: Found in all human cells, it's thought to increase levels of serotonin and dopamine. In an analysis of 39 unique studies, SAM-e to was found to be more effective than a placebo in reducing depression but no more effective than treatment with antidepressants.



TREATMENT: 5-Hydroxytryptophan

WHAT IT IS: A chemical in a spray or pill

REPORT CARD: One of the raw materials that your body needs to make serotonin. Some believe that boosting 5-HTP will elevate levels of serotonin, but there's not enough evidence to determine if it is effective and safe. Larger studies than have been conducted to date are needed.



TREATMENT: Omega-3 Fatty Acids

WHAT IT IS: Found in fish oil and certain plants

REPORT CARD: Several studies on its use in depression don't provide enough evidence to form a clear conclusion. One recent study of 20 children between ages 6 and 12, conducted at Ben Gurion University of the Negev in Israel, reported therapeutic benefits in childhood depression.



TREATMENT: St. John's Wort

WHAT IT IS: An herbal preparation from the Hypericum perforatum plant

REPORT CARD: Recent studies suggest the herb is of no benefit in treating major depression of moderate severity. More research is required to determine whether it is effective in treating other forms of depression, according to the National Institutes of Health.

no photo
Fri 01/02/09 10:43 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 01/02/09 10:51 AM
The skeptical approach! JREF article about the WSJ article. I couldn't agree more!

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/365-the-wall-street-journal-debunks-the-myth-of-alternative-medicine.html

We frequently criticize the media for gullible reporting of pseudoscience and inaccurate reporting of real science. But sometimes they exceed our fondest hopes and get it spectacularly right. On December 25, 2008, the Wall Street Journal gave us all a Christmas present: they printed an article by Steve Salerno that was a refreshing blast of skepticism and critical thinking about alternative medicine.

Salerno points out that 38% of Americans use "complementary and alternative medicine" (CAM) and it is being increasingly accepted in hospitals and medical schools. He says this should be a laughing matter but isn't because of the huge amounts of money being spent on ineffective treatments. Not to speak of the huge amounts of money being wasted on implausible research at the NCCAM.
He highlights a painful irony: the same medical centers that once fought quackery are now embracing it, not because they think it will improve patient care, but because it will increase their revenue.

Salerno quotes Dr. George Lundberg, one of the many who have said there is no such thing as CAM. There can be alternatives within medicine (like which antibiotic to choose) but there can be no "alternative medicine." There is only medicine that has been proven to work and medicine that hasn't. If science showed that an "alternative" treatment really worked, it would be promptly and enthusiastically incorporated into standard medical practice and would no longer be considered "alternative." So the very term is misleading.

"Alternative medicine" is not a scientific concept. It is a political, ideological ploy intended to raise public respect for a mishmash of untested, unproven, and even disproven treatments that are rejected by the scientific community. We used to call those treatments quackery, folk remedies, untested, belief-based. A rose by any other name...

Why should we have "alternative" medicine if we don't have "alternative" engineering? Dr. Mark Crislip wrote a brilliant satire entitled "Alternative Flight."

He says, "Americans want choice....People need to be free to choose their mode of flight based on alternative concepts of gravity and alternative airplane design....you can focus your Qi dong to harmonize with the airplane to decrease the mass of the airplane and provide a more efficient forward motion. Or collapse your personal wave function to arrive at your destination early."

It's easy to see why alternative flight is nonsense. Why is it so hard for most people to see that most of "alternative" medicine is equally nonsensical? Most people are smart enough not to fly on an "alternative" airplane, but they're eager to fork out $125 for an hour-long session of DNA Activation Healing, they buy water disguised as homeopathic remedies, and they let reflexologists treat their gallbladder by pressing on their feet.

For most of human history, people used medicines recommended by friends or tradition. Sometimes they worked; sometimes they didn't. Then humanity discovered a wonderful thing: the scientific method. Medicines could be tested to find out the truth about what really worked. Alternative medicine is a step backwards: it asks us to forget about good science and believe in testimonials, untested treatments, irrational, and even disproven treatments.

I can hear readers now, saying "But some of those treatments might really work." Maybe, but only science can tell us which ones. Science doesn't waste time testing every crackpot idea; it has to choose promising avenues of research. Would you want to divert funds from cancer research to re-evaluate the efficacy of bloodletting for balancing the humours? Or to re-examine all those alleged perpetual motion machines? It may have been reasonable to test St. John's wort; but it is not reasonable to keep testing ultra-dilute homeopathic remedies. It is not reasonable to keep looking for a mythical chiropractic "subluxation" after a century of failure to find it. It is not reasonable to fund studies on "therapeutic touch" unless someone can demonstrate that "human energy fields" exist and can be detected by nurses' hands.

Is there any "alternative" treatment that was ever tested, found to be effective, and subsequently incorporated into standard medical practice? I don't think that has ever happened except for herbal remedies. Herbal remedies are a special, plausible subset of "alternative" treatments in that they contain active ingredients with physiologic effects. They are drugs. Plants are regularly evaluated by scientific pharmacology. Many of the remedies touted by "alternative" advocates have not been properly tested by pharmacology, usually because they don't offer enough promise to warrant further testing.

Foxglove was a folk remedy for heart disease. It clearly worked. The effects were robust and consistent, not marginal and erratic like so many alternative remedies today. It was promising enough to warrant proper scientific testing. It was analyzed, purified, and a standardized product was developed. It had side effects and the therapeutic dose was dangerously close to the lethal dose, so scientists developed a synthetic variant that was safer. Today we can buy a Digoxin pill with a precise dose instead of crushing a foxglove leaf and taking potluck.

Is foxglove an example of an alternative medicine that was adopted by scientific medicine? Not really. It's simply a good example of science in action.

As Bob Park says in his book Superstition, if it's not science, it's superstition. There is only one kind of medicine we can trust: science-based medicine. We should be trying to weed out every vestige of superstition in scientific medical practice, not embracing new superstitions from alternative medicine. Thank you, Wall Street Journal, for the injection of sanity!


Here is the original WSJ article, sorry for the confusion I actually found two articles and got them confused. Both are extremely relevant.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123024234651134037.html


Redykeulous's photo
Fri 01/02/09 12:28 PM
There is much to be said regarding what the articles are discussing; mood disorders, mental illness, stress, physical pain, the food we consume and the environment we inhabit. If we consider the broad spectrum of issues, it’s clear that the brevity of these articles cannot possibly add a clear perspective about the issues or their treatments.

Alternative is a word that the second article uses to mean only one avenue; choosing one over another treatment or correct path. The error in this logic is that alternative can also mean combining treatment plans.

The field of psychology has made immense strides in discovering the causes of most of the disorders discussed. The biggest problem is determining the causes for each individual. The articles attempt to do what all of medicine, including early psychology, have been doing for millennia; categorizing and grouping similar empirical evidence and assigning one set of treatments for all within the group.

The science of psychology clearly indicates that categorizing illness is not only ineffectual it can also cause harm. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV) began as a tool to be used by the medical field, specifically psychology. Its purpose was to categorize and group in order to determine the disorder AND the prescribed treatment options. Notice that the DSM is in its fourth addition and today many psychologists refuse to use it and there is outcry for something better. Not only does the science of the mind continue to provide new information but it also admitting that categorization is not as an effective tool when we consider all the possible combinations of mood, stress, environment and genetic predispositions.

Psychology is attempting to pave the way for all medicine by including ‘alternative’ treatment options. The term ‘alternative’ in this case is to consider a combination of scientifically approved medical treatment and testing, as well as utilizing sources outside the medical field.

To completely understand what is happening, mentally and physiologically, in any individual requires that those within all medical treatment fields agree to combine their efforts for the sake of an individual. This means there can be no competition, there can only be communication, a team work for an individual.

The areas of the medical field that are ‘insurance inclusive’ are often bound by the dictates of the insurance companies. They must work in a ‘mass production’, or ‘assembly line’ fashion. This means that working outside the field as part of a team dealing with only one individual would be excruciatingly time intensive, not to mention the massive patient files would need to be maintained. This prevents practitioners from attempting to form such bonds, thereby making a patient choose ONE OVER THE OTHER; the form of the word alternative by the science bound and insurance restricted medical practitioners.

The solution is not that difficult to figure out; putting it into effect is the problem. At this time, in the United States, it is not the scientific medical field that determines the best course of action with a patient; it is the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies that dictate a course of treatment, and that is based on a categorization which was formulated through a limited selection and a majority of statistically produced findings. This means that people/individuals are diagnosed and treated like cattle, and the treatment options are defined by, paradoxically, an alternative source; the insurance company.

To summarize, it is not feasible to categorize the kinds of ills being discussed in these articles; there are simply far too many variables.

Secondly, we live in toxic times, where even the food we eat is killing us. The, so called, alternative practitioners recognize this and attempt to put the body (of an individual) back in balance with nature. This is something most of the medical field, not only ignores, but continues to add to the toxicity level by prescribing ill-effective and man created drugs via some empirically devised categorization.

Third, the fast paced, tension ridden, peer pressure invoking, environment that we have created is breaking down any overrides to genetic predisposition. Nurturing and security overrides certain genetic predispositions to learning disorders, personality disorders, mood disorders and even mental illness. If we have evolved OUT of nurturing we are devolving genetically.

Finally, just as we have passed off responsibility for others and for our environment to the government to handle, we have also passed off the responsibility for self to the insurance companies. Now they don’t pay, and if we seek an ‘alternative’ path for healthcare, we not only pay the price in dollars, but we also pay the price because the scientific medical community is bound by the insurance companies and are ineffectual team members for individual health care.

Medication may or may not be a viable answer. Alternative treatments,outside medical science, may or may not be a viable answer. It's clear the BEST answer would be teamwork between the two but as individuals we are caught in a trap of our own making. The only way out it to take responsibility.


Jess642's photo
Fri 01/02/09 12:56 PM
Edited by Jess642 on Fri 01/02/09 12:57 PM
Something rather unsettling I read of the other day...

A group of anthropologists, and scientists, studied a colony of chimpanzees and noted a group within the colony who were listless, apathetic, isolating themselves, and for all indications showed signs of depression.

This group of chimps were removed from the colony, for six months, and when the scientists returned to re-integrate the 'depressed' chimps, they discovered the entire colony dead. Not gone, not moved on... dead.

What they surmised, is that depression within a society is an early warning system for the colony, that something is not right...

Depression.... when diagnosing depression and other forms of societal dis-ease.. the benchmarks, or parameters, are so vastly blurred, it really is a hit and miss diagnosis.

Societal pressures... perceived or otherwise, as well as having an unhealthy image or picture of what one is supposed to be, are strong contributors to 'depression'...

I like to think that depression, is an undoing of repression.. it is present for a specific organic reason, and sedating, or masking these sensations are inappropriate...

More emotional support, and connection with clients, family, society in general is a more effective form of treatment.

As a race/cutlure, humans have become so separated, insular, and isolated, emotionally,the sense of dis-connection is becoming more and more prevalent.

no photo
Fri 01/02/09 01:08 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 01/02/09 01:21 PM
Good post Di.


Alternative to me, is just that. An alternative is something with validity that is not primary, that is it.

The problem is that all the snake oil salesman have latched on to this term.

To me this problem stems from the modern worlds specialization where general education has not kept up with medicine. I think it is to be expected that in an advancing society the general populace will not be able to fully wrap there minds around science at all levels of modernity.

I hope we can catch up, and I think if these articles are any kind of indicator we are on the right track in the sense that at least someone in the media has a clue.


Something rather unsettling I read of the other day...

A group of anthropologists, and scientists, studied a colony of chimpanzees and noted a group within the colony who were listless, apathetic, isolating themselves, and for all indications showed signs of depression.

This group of chimps were removed from the colony, for six months, and when the scientists returned to re-integrate the 'depressed' chimps, they discovered the entire colony dead. Not gone, not moved on... dead.

What they surmised, is that depression within a society is an early warning system for the colony, that something is not right...

Depression.... when diagnosing depression and other forms of societal dis-ease.. the benchmarks, or parameters, are so vastly blurred, it really is a hit and miss diagnosis.

Societal pressures... perceived or otherwise, as well as having an unhealthy image or picture of what one is supposed to be, are strong contributors to 'depression'...

I like to think that depression, is an undoing of repression.. it is present for a specific organic reason, and sedating, or masking these sensations are inappropriate...

More emotional support, and connection with clients, family, society in general is a more effective form of treatment.

As a race/cutlure, humans have become so separated, insular, and isolated, emotionally,the sense of dis-connection is becoming more and more prevalent.
Excellent insights! This is the problem, to ask these kinds of questions takes time, and our system abhors moving slowly and deliberately.

Its all about check in, get a diagnosis right or wrong and get out . . . The very specialty that gives us strong methods, and treatments is also a horse wearing blinders great at seeing its own specialty, but blind to others . . . GP's tend to have outdated educations and do not reeducated to the degree the specialist due.

So we end up . . .

Popping the pills and avoiding the cause. Then when you don't feel better go get some needles placed into you or dilute some water, or tap your foot while rotating your posterior in a semi-circular method while having someone tell you you are special . . . . wow I feel better must be these magnets!

no photo
Fri 01/02/09 01:15 PM
Very interesting thread. I don't feel qualified to comment,but it is something I want to learn more about. Posting here so it will show on my list.
Now, back to my lurking.

joad's photo
Fri 01/02/09 03:21 PM
Musical comment on the current state of the Health Industrial Complex (at least that's what I call it) and more:


http://www.actionext.com/names_s/steve_earle_lyrics/amerika_v_6_0_the_best_we_can_do.html

Redykeulous's photo
Fri 01/02/09 04:33 PM
Joad - maybe the best we can do, if we intend to maintain it, to fix it - but what if we tear it all down?

joad's photo
Fri 01/02/09 06:42 PM
Edited by joad on Fri 01/02/09 06:56 PM

Joad - maybe the best we can do, if we intend to maintain it, to fix it - but what if we tear it all down?


I think maybe one has to understand in context just how deeply and darkly sarcastic Steve Earle's music can be to appreciate his anger in this song. I'm sure he would love to tear it down (in a sense) and start over. He's pretty radical. He's also one of the few musicians my age who are still pissed. That's why I like him so much. Wish I knew of more, but I'm off topic.

I have personal experience with both private and public care relating to major depression. My last deep episode was 8 years ago when, speaking of the DSM, I was diagnosed with Major Depression with Psychotic Features. I read somewhere that people with this diagnosis suicide at a rate of one in ten. I don't know if that is valid or not - as you say, there is plenty of misinformation out there. I don't find it implausible though.

I was hospitalized in a psychiatric ward during that period in a private hospital. I had no insurance or money to speak of. Upon admission, medication was started and I was interviewed by a psychiatric intern for 10 minutes who again interviewed me for 10 minutes shortly before being discharged and put on a bus 7 days later. I had some interaction with nurses and patients. With those exceptions, I was mostly left to myself and my delusions.

Could more have been done? Probably. Would more have been done if I had insurance. Not sure, but I was still deeply delusional and suicidal upon discharge. Still, I'm very thankful for that place. Being there even under limited care may have saved my life.

When I returned home, I plugged into the 5 county regional public mental health system. An employee there was responsible for finding me the nearest available bed in the above mentioned psychiatric ward. It was 120 miles from my home. Some say that hospitals are no longer expanding mental health facilities because the people that need them tend to be uninsured and short on savings. Again, don't know.

Though stretched to the limit, the local public mental health system was a true lifesaver. The people who worked there really cared. I was given a therapist who immediatly began seeing me 3 times a week until the antipsycotics took hold; sometimes she saw me while eating her bagged lunch during her lunch hour. Eventually the depression lifted and I continued seeing her each month to get an objective look at my mood. That went on for seven years. Each visit, after a brief recap of the month, I had the opportunity to work with her in an effort to clear some wreakage out of my past that we both feel probably played a role in the depressive episodes. It worked. That was a gift.

Six months ago, the state decided to severly cut funding for regional mental health systems and patients were handed off to for-profit clinics that would be funded through medicare/medicaid. Although I probably would qualify for Social Security Disability, I choose not to. But I can't afford the rates that would be required to use the new private facilities so I've simply stopped going.

Please don't feel sorry for me; I don't. :) I'm happy and healthy and very lucky to have had public mental health care available to me when it mattered. Instead I'm concerned for those who no longer have access. By the way, that's also why I never have any hesitation to speak up about my experiences when given the chance. One never knows when someone may be around that needs to hear something to let them know they're not alone, and I'm indebted.

Now, to your question. It seems pretty clear to me that the current system has fallen prey to the corrupting influences of power and money. I'm not sure much can be changed without a major upheaval and we know what drives political will. Perhaps as my generation ages we will become as pissed off as Steve Earle is in that song. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy for crying out loud! Until then, I'm not hopeful for much more than minor changes. However, I've seen public health care work...

Three months ago a friend, knowing my history, called me out of concern for a friend of her's who was delusional. She had a prior history of major depression but when I found her she was in a manic state and hadn't slept in 4 days. I shared my experience with her and was able to convince her to let me take her to the emergency room. She had no insurance. She stayed in the emergency room under court order as a threat to herself for 5 days until a bed could be found for her in a psychiatric ward, this time 160 miles away. It's broken.


splendidlife's photo
Sat 01/03/09 12:01 PM
Edited by splendidlife on Sat 01/03/09 12:04 PM

Something rather unsettling I read of the other day...

A group of anthropologists, and scientists, studied a colony of chimpanzees and noted a group within the colony who were listless, apathetic, isolating themselves, and for all indications showed signs of depression.

This group of chimps were removed from the colony, for six months, and when the scientists returned to re-integrate the 'depressed' chimps, they discovered the entire colony dead. Not gone, not moved on... dead.

What they surmised, is that depression within a society is an early warning system for the colony, that something is not right...

Depression.... when diagnosing depression and other forms of societal dis-ease.. the benchmarks, or parameters, are so vastly blurred, it really is a hit and miss diagnosis.

Societal pressures... perceived or otherwise, as well as having an unhealthy image or picture of what one is supposed to be, are strong contributors to 'depression'...

I like to think that depression, is an undoing of repression.. it is present for a specific organic reason, and sedating, or masking these sensations are inappropriate...

More emotional support, and connection with clients, family, society in general is a more effective form of treatment.

As a race/cutlure, humans have become so separated, insular, and isolated, emotionally,the sense of dis-connection is becoming more and more prevalent.


Depression can serve as a valuable indicator of one's painful disconnection from whole/true/higher-Self. Could it be a normal human process to feel varying levels of depression? It seems too often that Modern Medicine treats this indicator as a fatal disease that MUST be stamped out. It seems that, too hastily doctors blindly prescribe antidotes to numb any pain as quickly as possible rather than encourage a deeper understanding of human feelings. Ultimately, the less we tolerate our feelings and turn to medication to eliminate the most painful ones, the less we allow ourselves to be free. Societal pressures to appear as though all is "good" all of the time further perpetuate this trend.

Of course there’s still a need for the use of Psychopharmacology in extreme cases in which the depression may have seriously progressed. Some people need immediate stabilization. It just seems sad that masses of people are being convinced that they will have to be on medications such as SSRI’s for the rest of their lives. Do our brains become reliant over time on these chemical regulators in order for us to feel normal? Do we loose opportunities to connect with our human pain that otherwise could have served to free our selve's from self-limiting beliefs?

It seems promising that Medicine considers more options than just Psychotropic Medication as viable treatment for depression.

no photo
Sat 01/03/09 01:45 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Sat 01/03/09 01:46 PM
Thank you for sharing Joad, I think each of us needs some perspective to understand where we are at to know where we are going, especially with issues this important and complex.

I think in large part our perspective of this issue as a whole is flawed mostly due to the stigma attached, most people do not want to talk about it.

So again thank you! :smile:


davidben1's photo
Sat 01/03/09 02:27 PM
less it ALL MEAN SOMETHING GOOD, then it all mean something bad, and ULTIMATELY, there is no middle ground available, where sanity can reside........

joad's photo
Sat 01/03/09 03:26 PM
Edited by joad on Sat 01/03/09 04:25 PM
You're welcome Billy - thanks for the OP and the opportunity.

Splendid, Jess, and Red -

While I'm naturally attuned to the needs of the deeply depressed, as I'm sure you are, I couldn't agree more with your posts when it comes finding a different approach for mild to even moderate depression. I can't tell you how many people I've run across who have been prescribed antidepressants, usually by a GP, in times when many of the symptoms of depression are perfectly appropriate to the situation. Grief for example.

Often this diagnosis is further complicated by the lack of knowledge by the patient and for whatever reason, the lack of responsibility on the part of the doctor to properly inform the patient of possible side effects and the fact that most of them are usually temporary. Or that it isn't uncommon for the beneficial effects of the drugs to require 4 to 6 weeks before appearing. Or that the sudden cessation of the medications may lead to very troubling side effects up to and including suicide. Or that medication when combined with one of the talking therapies greatly increases successful outcomes. These are serious drugs and those who take them should be monitored in my opinion. This is commonly overlooked.

Also often overlooked by GPs and patients is the benefit of of various things the patient has full control over and are either considered to be or have been proven to be effective. Getting a half hour of sunlight each day. A more nutritious diet. Developing as regular a sleep pattern as possible. Exercise. Avoiding isolation. Re engagement in hobbies and normally pleasant pastimes even if they aren't immediately enjoyed. There are many others. While these things are often impossible to carry out for the deeply depressed, they normally can be carried out by those who are mildly to moderately clinically depressed or are temporarily depressed for appropriate reasons. My personal belief is that some combination of the above would often suffice as treatment, but careful examination and monitoring are key, and that doesn't often happen.

We've been given a false promise by the medical, pharmaceutical and alternative medicine communities that meds, or herbs, or anything else one can think of will cure us without our having to put in any effort. Unfortunately, it just isn't like that with depression.







joad's photo
Sat 01/03/09 03:59 PM
Red_ you seem to be very well informed. Have you ever considered or read about the possible effect that potential malpractice suits might play in the over prescription of meds in the mental health field?