“f Jesus was not who He said He was....then He was the biggest fraud who
ever lived.
Just wondering how you can 'love and respect' Him.”

Because I believe I understand where he was coming from.

It saddens me to think that Christians would denounce him in a second if
they discovered he wasn’t the almighty.

If they can’t use him for salvation they want nothing to do with him.

How sad is that?

Adventure

there are many different versions of the bible, who knows for sure which
is the true bible or even if any of them are correct...it's a matter of
faith

However i do believe the "king james version" of the new testament is as
close to correct as we'll see, too much of the things written have come
to past as foretold for me not to believe.

once again it's a matter of faith

Keep in mind i'm not telling anyone that they have to believe as I do
but please DO NOT tell me my faith is wrong.

Excuse me I made no assumptions, I made statements of fact, You don't
think the other children in the neighborhood would think different about
your children? Kids will be kids they know nothing of why parents do
what they do. They don't care. These children will make a mockery of
what you are doing in homescholling. I have seen it, more than once. As
a result I came to this conclusion of alienations. I was part of a
family that made fun of the kids down the street who were being
homeschooled. It didn't matter what I or thier mother said it was still
a joke to them. They didn't care if they were grounded for teasing the
kids. PEER pressure was at the root of it, and as you and I both know
peer pressure is a very powerful thing.

I am glad to see you feel you could teach your children many things
about religion math, english, and possibly foriegn language, however I
still stand that as a result of what I have SEEN in regards to
homeschooled children I feel it would be a mistake.

As for homeschooling not being manipulating? What would you call it? You
are the one controlling what they have to read and write. You are the
one who is giving them the assignments to learn. You are the one who is
responsible for thier teaching, teaching in itself is manipulating the
student to understand what they are given to learn. You will be in
control of molding the way they think.

You know why I am considered intelligent by most? My parents were active
in my learning, even though both worked long hours We ( brother and
sisters) were required to show our homework assignments and complete
them. My Father would give me assignments from time to time to research
through the encyclopedia and report what I found. At times We would have
to go to the library to do this research and I learned how to do these
things. There was no internet, hell I remember when he got us PONG and
everyone in the apt bldg came to play.

This is how I would Help in thier education, I would be a guide, and not
a teacher. Let the teachers do the job they are trained to do, let the
kids be kids with thier peer group, and allow them to respect you for
helping them, not forcing them to do what you want. I may not have liked
what my Dad did, however it is one of the best memories I have of my Dad
and the smile he had when I followed a lead and came to my own
conclusions.

What you wish to call assumptions are based on my experiences in the 40+
yrs I have memories of good times and bad. There are no assumptions,
they are facts I have collected in the memories and there is no need to
prove to you or anyone else these experiences.

I offer these experiences only to allow you to make a wise decision
about schooling. If I said nothing I would have done you and anyone else
reading this thread a dis-service.

Something you will learn about me if you hang around, I will always give
my best in anything I do, be it my poetry, my relationship with god, or
my relationships with my Friends. I will speak when I feel it is
necessary to do so. You have my word on that, and Thank you for the
postings it has taught me a little bit more about the world around me.
For that I am gratefull.



G

BTW I take no offence from your postings, emotions are kinda new to me,
so I know what you mean.



G

Stevewm>

I have never claimed nor will I that the bible is not as you think it
is. What you use to strengthen your faith is your business.

However it is a historical fact that there was a meeting during the
reign of Constintine and the current version(s) of the bible are the
direct decendents of that meeting.

PW, It seems you may not understand my feeling on this subject. I am
against anyone telling me what I can or can't do. If I break the law I
go to jail. If I choose to believe in hell then if I sin I will end up
there. If I choose to say the Pledge of Allegiance I should be ALLOWED
to. If I wish to say a prayer over my food at work I should be allowed
to.

When I was in High School the students decided to hold a Pledge of
Allegiance in the Quad before school one day, because we were told we
were no longer ALLOWED to say it during Homeroom at the beginning of
school. We the students did it fr a few days, until several of the
teachers who participated were suspended without pay for being involved.
That is not acceptable, we the students and some of the teachers CHOSE
to do this and as a result of a few the many were no longer allowed to
practice Thier RIGHTS......

Those who cry the most are heard the most, and those who let the WHINERS
get thier way are sheep being led to slaughter. Slowly my rights are
being taken away from me and as I have always done I stand up and fight.
I may not win but I will go down swinging.



G

faith thesaurus, assurance,be lie
f,certitude,confidence,credence,reliance,sureness,
trust.2conviction,creed,devotion,doctrine,dogma,persuassion,religion.if
only we could resurect ROBBERT THE BUGGER he was the popes right hand
man back in the 12th century seems like nothins gunner change in a
hurry.so good luck with faith i reckon religion needs a lot of big
dogmas for protection.

Gryphyn,

I can see that you do not support homeschooling, and that you haven’t
seen many cases where it has worked well. However, that doesn’t deter
my belief that it can work for the right people.

I would like to touch on a couple of things you mentioned though.

G wrote:
“As for homeschooling not being manipulating? What would you call it?”

Educational processes are all manipulating by their very nature. My
point is that homeschooling isn’t any more manipulative than public
schools, and I would even argue that it can be less manipulative.

Why would I say that homeschooling can be less manipulative? Because I
can be more individualist with my child and teach them more closely with
what they are trying to learn. Public schools teach many students at a
time in a class. There are many more restrictions associated with that.
The student has to move at the pace of the class instead of at their own
pace.

With homeschooling can teach one-on-one (even if I’m teaching several of
my children I can still spend time with each of them one-on-one while
the others do other things). They can breeze past things they get
easily thus not being bored whilst waiting for other to grasp it. And
they can slow down and concentrate on problem areas without worrying
about falling behind ‘the class’.

You can’t beat one-on-one teaching.

Finally, I really need to comment on the following:

G wrote:
“You are the one who is responsible for their teaching, teaching in
itself is manipulating the student to understand what they are given to
learn. You will be in control of molding the way they think.”

I totally disagree with you here. Teaching is NOT manipulation to me.
If that’s how you view teaching then well never see eye-to-eye because
we live in two differnet worlds. I teach by helping the students to
understand things in the way that works best for them. I don’t
‘manipulate’ them or mold them.

With your suggestion that teaching is manipulation and molding I would
have to say that we aren’t going to understand each other very well. I
simply don’t view teaching as manipulation and molding. Far from it.
I view teaching a helping the student to learn, understand, and discover
things. And a good student will often pleasant reward me be actually
teaching me new ways to look at old concepts.

I don’t manipulate or mold. No no no. I would consider that to be a
poor teaching philosophy. Definitely not my style of teaching.

In fact, let me add that one of the biggest reasons that I would
homeschool my children is to save them form an educational philosophy
that does indeed try to manipulate and mold.

That’s my number one biggest reason to get them out of public schools in
the first place.

mornin James! do you get the feeling it won't matter??


i don't see a debate here or a discussion just alot of defensive
behaviour...c'mon let's take a deep breath remember what we are really
here for and have a walk or go back to a good book...


sorry red...the minds are narrow and locked and by the way Jane i was
not attacking you...just took a sentence and expanded on it, with my
point of view....

Abrcad, you say you love and respect Jesus...
"Because I believe I understand where he was coming from."

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man cometh to the
Father but by me" St. John 14-6
Jesus said, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" St. John 14-9
Jesus said, "In my Fathers house are many mansions: if it were not so, I
would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and recieve
you unto myself; that where I am there ye may be also". St. John 14-2 &
3

I say again, if Jesus was/is not who He said He was...He was a fraud and
a liar.

So, where do you believe 'He was coming from"?

he was coming from a language of metaphor and Aramaic i believe, but
over the years, and with subjective interpretation and the manipulation
by those that could use the immensely powerful tool against those
vulnerable and in a position to followand preach they configured a
gosple and preached a dogma that actually had nothing tio do with the
reality.

the fact that you can quote blindly these lines that are clearly
ridiculous to take literally shows how effective the brainwashing
was/is

so what if some guy you call saint john said whatever he said!!!!!


that does not make it correct!

Just for the record...imho

1. No specific religion should be taught in public schools. Nor do I
think any theory should be taught as fact.
2. No one can force you to pray, no one can prevent you from praying.
3. Christians, God does not need us to defend Him.
4. Atheists, you cannot know love as believers do, because God is Love.
5. God is Spirit, we cannot 'figure out' God, using human logic.

Love, Peace.

as for your points they are as ridiculous as the cartoon of your
face....


i am an athiest and proud to be ...and you are in no way capable of
knowing whether i am able to love or not...


just as stupid as the rest of the crap you've been spewing in this
thread

Gryphen, James, I hate to see two smart people like you arguing
semantics rather than meaning:

> Teaching in itself is manipulating the student to understand what they are given to learn.

> Teaching is NOT manipulation to me.

There are many different uses of the term 'manipulate', here's two:

"2 a : to manage...skillfully
b : to control ...by artful, unfair, or insidious means..."

Both uses are valid.

OleJeb,

Its good to see you expressing your views here. Your views and mine - on
religion - are about as different as can be, yet I agree with all 5 of
your points, and am glad to hear you stating them.

For #4 "Atheists, you cannot know love as believers do, because God is
Love.", of course - every human experience of life is unique, we cannot
know that anyone experiences it -the same way- as we do. I do think that
a persons beliefs about something will tend to color how they experience
it. So I recognize the validity of what you say here. But are you also
implying that the atheist experience of love is always *inferior*???

If so, have you personally known many atheists?

I look at all the theists and atheists I've known over my life, and see
a lot of variation within each group. I have known SOME 'Christians' so
full of selfishness and fear they had little room for love. And I have
known SOME atheists who seem to experience and express boundless love.

Adventure:

How do you know this history is fact? Was this history not written by
man as well? Just as we do not know the bible is fact nor do we know any
of the history written in books
is fact. It's a pointless arguement. We only know what we read and
choose to believe. And i am not saying you're wrong

just making a point

Very valid point.

You have your box and I mine.

May we both think outside of our respective boxes.

and perhaps learn something.

Ole Jeb wrote:
“So, where do you believe 'He (Jesus) was coming from"?

Well, to begin with I have to agree with what Alex mentioned about the
language translations. You can’t really take quotes of “Jesus”
verbatim. They have been translated from other languages over many
centuries.

An even more important point to realize is that you weren’t even quoting
Jesus at all, you were quoting what John claimed that Jesus had said.
In other words, you’re quoting “hear say”, not Jesus.

Many historians who have studied the bible belief that the disciples
didn’t write their accounts of Jesus for some 10 or 20 years (or longer)
after Jesus had died. So not only is it ‘hear say’, but it has also
been reconstructed from the disciples memory which could have easily
changed over the years, particularly with respect to precise wordings.

Jesus was not a writer. There are no ‘direct quotes’ or writings from
Jesus at all that I am aware of. All of the statements of Jesus that
are written in the bible are all ‘hear say’ written by his disciples
decades after Jesus died. So not only was their memory rusty, but they
probably also expanded on many events with wishful imagination. In
fact, I would be surprised if they didn’t.

However, even if the words of Jesus were verbatim how can you say that
they are lies if Jesus said that he was God when in fact he was only a
‘mortal man’ like you and me?

I’m telling you that I’m god. Am I lying? No absolutely not! I
believe that this universe is god, and I am this universe, therefore I
am god.

I am both god, and a mortal man, and so are you!

If Jesus believed like me (and for many reasons I believe that he did)
then he was being completely honest to say that he is god. Because his
idea of god is not one of an egotistical separate being in the sky, but
simply that this universe is god. Therefore Jesus was being truthful
when he said that he is god.

When Jesus said that the only way to god is through me, (which is
probably a very poor interpretation of what he actually said) he simply
meant that if you follow the blind dogma of the churches you’ll be lost,
but if you listen to what he is telling you then you will come to know
the real living god.

I could say the very same thing to you right now. The only way to god
is to understand what I’m telling you, that god is this universe. I am
the way. Follow me. I’ll lead you to the true living god. I am the
father, the son, and the holy ghost.

And so are you!

There were no lies in what Jesus was saying with respect to how he
believed. They are only lies if you remain hung up on the picture of
god being a completely separate egotistical Santa Claus in the sky.
But Jesus didn’t believe that way. So when Jesus said that he is god he
wasn’t lying even though he was only a mortal man like you and me.

It wasn't a hoax. It wasn't a scam. Jesus just realized that we are god
and he tried to help other people see that fundamental truth in the best
way he could.

There are many compelling reasons to believe that this is precisely what
Jesus was trying to say.

He was misunderstood by his own disciples, and he’s being grossly
misunderstood today.

No hoax. No lies. He was just trying to show people the way to
enlightenment.