Grizz wrote:
“should ask him to show you the way an you might be impressed god will
if you ask it of him.”

For a long time in my youth I sincerely wanted to be the best Christian
possible. I wanted to be God’s servant, and at one time I even
considered the possibility of becoming a “man of god”.

Ironically, it was actually a preacher who opened my eyes to the fallacy
of it all.

Did I ask god to show me the way?

Yes, and in the most sincere way possible. What did I receive from god?
Nothing. Not even a dial tone. Absolutely nothing.

Or,…. If you want to look at it from another perspective, the real
living God actually did answer me. What was the answer? The answer was
that Christianity is a false religion and has absolutely nothing to do
with God. God told me (though my heart and emotions) to steer clear of
Christianity as it is a hypocritical institution full of lies that do
not represent the real living god. That’s what god told me if god
speaks to us through our emotions and hearts.

I can confidently toss a bible in a burn barrel and feel like I am doing
the will of god. I believe that god absolutely despises organized
religions because they steer people away from knowing god’s true nature.

Yes, god lives within me. Not within any church or organized religion.
God is this universe. God isn’t some painting on a wall in a cathedral.
Those are idol images. That is idol worship.

The real god is the spirit of this universe which I am a part of. God
is not some egotistical Santa Claus in the sky who is admittedly a
jealous god who passes judgments people and either allows them to
worship him for eternity or they can go to hell.

No, truly loving god would ever be so petty and egotistical. Not to
mention chauvinistic. The bible was written by controlling egotistical
men who never knew the real living god.

I am not an atheist. I believe that the universe *is* god. And I am
this universe. And so are you. There is no egotistical Santa Claus in
the sky threatening to send people to hell for eternal damnation, or to
a heaven to be eternal worshiping slaves to his will only.

Nope, god is so much more profound than that. No one is going anywhere
but back home to the place from where they came. Sin and evil are
illusions. They ultimately don’t exist. No one ever really dies. No
one ever endures more pain than they are willing to endure. Human
existence is an illusion of the spiritual creatures that we ultimately
are. When you awaken from the illusion you will realize that life is
but a dream.

Row row row your boat, gently down the stream.

Grizzy wrote:
“didn’t we all start out blind remember Abracadabra what a nickname
anyway no one sees until he opens their eyes to it”

Blind?

Who’s blind?

I once was blind, but now I see.

Nice post Abra.

I was, as a youth, forceably ejected (seat of pants, back of neck) from
a Catholic church. My father also tanned my hide when we got home.

Why...

The priest gave a lecture on worshipping idols. I mearly pointed out
that they were praying to one..

A big wooden cross with a graven metal image of a dead man on it.

Good posts. Abra, you perspectives on the topic and the nature of your
beliefs are quite interesting. For a time, prior to my jumping down
from the agnostic fence, that I saw things from and would have agred
with your ideas. This was actually the last stage of my ever changing
and ever fading belief system. It was studying philosophers, the
history of their times and their rhetoric that finally gave me leave to
stand down from that fence forever. It was a relieve and a renewal I
often relate to the Christians' verbal experience of the relief they
felt God/Jesus took the burden from thier shoulders, as they gave thier
life to him.

I have some questions for you Abra, relating to the ideas in your post.

In your 'ethical philosophy' is the universe a created invironment, or
the evolution that occured, is occuring from the happenstance of some
unknown and unrelated God force?

And also, in your view, is there a soul that predates man and will
continue on after man's demise?

If God created everything, then why did he create a nemesis?

To scare small children of course ...

Religion is all about scaring people in to worshipping something
controlling.

If you dont pray you will go to hell!!

Why did god create hell? Punishment!

If God is all forgiving, why punish people by sending them to purgatory?

The bible is nothing more than a collection of short stories that have
been put together by a book club.

"Shall we keep this one?"
"Nahh ... dont like the ending, the hero dies!"

Red wrote:
“In your 'ethical philosophy' is the universe a created environment, or
the evolution that occurred, is occurring from the happenstance of some
unknown and unrelated God force?”

Is the universe a pure accident? Absolutely not.
Was everything preplanned? Absolutely not.

It’s kind of a combination of the two.

Like rolling dice.

Does rolling dice really represent random chance?

The answer is both yes and no.

When you roll dice you might think at first that you will have
absolutely no idea what will come up. But that’s not true. You know
very well what can and cannot come up. You cant throw less than snake
eyes and you can’t throw more than boxcars. So you’re stuck with
getting either 2 or 12 or something in-between. But certainly never
less than 2 and never more than 12. Moreover, even the possibilities
in-between those are only integer possibilities.

You can only get so many combinations of possibilities. Which
combination you’ll get is completely unknown to you, other than the fact
that it will definitely be within the range of the *possible* outcomes.

The universe is much the same way. Yes, god did throw dice when
becoming the universe and there was no way of knowing what the outcome
might be. But like the dice, the outcomes were confined within a
certain range of possibilities. Would humans eventually evolved on a
planet they call earth? Maybe, maybe not. Obviously since it did
happen it was within the range of possibilities. But there was no way
for even god to know precisely what would come up when the dice were
originally thrown.

So yes, it’s based on ‘chance’, but not ‘accident’ if you can see the
difference.

Who threw the dice?

I don’t ask that question.

I ask who *is* the dice?

To me that’s a more meaningful question. God didn’t throw the dice, god
is the roll.

We are what came up on the roll. And that make us part of the roll too.

We are the universe experiencing itself.

Yes, we are god.

Now we turn to the concept of ‘ethical philosophy’.

Is is ‘wrong’ to kill, maim, or do anything nasty to another living
creature? Well, if you believe the philosophy that I’ve described thus
far then to kill, maim, or do anything nasty to another living creature
is to do that terrible thing to yourself.

We are all one. Whatever you do to others you do to yourself. If you
truly understand the nature of the universe, and that you *are* this
universe, then what is your motivation to inflict pain upon yourself?
Only those who don’t understand their true nature would do such a thing.
Only those who believe that they are completely separate egotistical
beings would do such a thing.

But you see, getting lost in the illusion of being a completely a
separate egotistical being is part of the ‘game’. And yes, it is a
game. It’s the game of life.

Is it ok then to kill other people if they are just going to be
reincarnated again and no one really actually dies?

Listen to the question?

What’s preventing you from killing people right now? A fear of going to
hell? Is that it? Is that the only reason that you don’t run around
killing people?

I don’t think so.

Christianity doesn’t give any better reason to have ‘morals’ other than
a fear of being judged by a egotistical god. Besides, the idea in
Christianity is also that people don’t really die. So what’s wrong with
killing them? If they were nice they’ll just go to heaven. No harm
done right?

Christianity doesn’t have any precedence on morals. Christians just
leave the idea of ‘morals’ up to a judgmental god.

I don't kill people simply because I don’t want to kill people. Not
because I fear retribution from an angry egotistical godhead.

I take full responsibility for my own morals. I'm a nice person because
I want to be a nice person and for no other reason.

What a refreshing and real description of "faith based churches" or all
teeny little twisted versions of GOD here in hillbillyville. I even have
the god fearin snake handlin church right up younder beyond the holler.

My child is autistic and let me say he is a very special one for
sure BUT I was allowing his granny to let him attend her twisted
lil church (IMHO OF COURSE) but that was fine UNTIL right before
christmas when i got tired of hearing "I WANT" "I WANT". Yeah ROLLING MY
EYES in horror with memories of that lecture from mama "all them
starving babies in africa and your WHINING" but i do keep my child very
aware that he needs be put GRATITUDE in his ATTITUDE about his LIFE and
having perhaps MORE than other wee ones in this world. I sat him down
with my mamas bible and asked him if understood what the REAL meaning of
christmas was? He just stared at me.
Apparently this back hills
twisted group has NOT explained in SUNDAY SCHOOL to these wee ones what
CHRISTMAS really is about. So i explained in the christian belief of
this being Jesus's birthday and the events that lead up to his birth.
Once AGAIN at easter now dont you KNOW "I WANT" I WANT!!! I asked him
again if he understood the real meaning of EASTER? NO BUDDY!
(by this point i am NOT surprised) So
i sat him down and explained this. He asked about the romans crucifying
jesus and they believed in statues, buildings and not GOD right mommy??
Thats RIGHT! I explained that god is all around him and its not about a
book, a building, a preachermans TV broadcast but the UNIVERSE and GOD.
I am NOT a deeply religious woman and my beliefs follow those of my
beloved Edgar Cayce and the REAL GOD who is all around.

to start with as far as i know God is not a concept He is a being way
superior than every single human being. Who within His huge love gave as
life.
My opinion not trying to create any controversy.

Westdeck wrote..

based on ancient novels. That's my opinion. I believe we are all
connected, and we have powers, and we live more lives. But that has
nothing to do with an old novel.

****************************************************************

I agree with your thoughts, and your opinions...

I have found the collection of eyewitness accounts of times and eras, so
far removed from any form of reality now, is just that, one mans word,
retold, and possibly embellished, until transcribed, interpreted, and
retold.

In any event, anywhere, tragedy, joyous, whatever, there are many
witnesses, who all see something different...which one is the TRUTH, the
factual happenings?

I cannot blindly follow any collection of individual accounts as gospel
truth. As a human being, I was wired with reasoning, and free will..and
I use it.

And the same goes with the Bagavadgita, The Quoran, The Bible, all of
them...they have interesting stories, but it is up to me to interpret
them as I will...