based on ancient novels. That's my opinion. I believe we are all
connected, and we have powers, and we live more lives. But that has
nothing to do with an old novel.

look at your hand. its a concept. someone designed it.

I see a hand... We could be dreaming all this. We could be part of a
game, or put here as an experiment by aliens... Anything could be the
case.

kudos rambill.

Somebody created the Aliens

I rely on the oldest book in the world

The Holy Bible

WEST, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE, IN WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE,
AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT I WANT TO BELIEVE. I JUST KNOW THAT I
CAN NOT LOOK AT THE WONDERS OF THIS WORLD, AND NOT BELIEVE THAT
SOMETHING GREATER THAN ME PUT THIS ALL HERE. I'M NOT SURE, WHICH " OLD
NOVEL " YOU ARE REFERRING TO, BUT IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD CHANGE BOOKS,
AND READ SOMETHING ELSE.

Wow.

I had no idea the bible was written in Sanskrit?

Please...

There are books older then the bible.

I can name you one.

The Bagavagita.

It also is a holy book.

The Torah.

It also is a holy book.

Any one else know of others?

O Lord, forgive my idolatries
due to my human limitations.
You are everywhere,
but I worship you here.
You are without form.
But I worship in these forms.
You need no praise,
yet I offer you these prayers
and salutations.
O Great Mystery,
forgive these idolatries
due to my human limitations…
_______ Prayer of a Hindu
priest.

Let me rephrase that then.

It is by far the biggest seller and most distributed book in the world
and it comes from GOD...still not sure but i think it may be the oldest
as well


none of those you mentioned means anything to me to begin with

now some of you would want to argue the fact that we don't know
that it comes from GOd

it is a matter of faith

i just put it this way

organised religion === the root of all evil

organised religion has done more to
drive people away from their devine belief

than any other thing in the world past and present

just a thought

but hey what do i know

Aye a matter of faith.

Last I heard god has only written with his own hands once and that was
upon stone.

Anything written on paper is but the word of a man.

If you are reading it in english it has been translated several times.

Something is allways lost in translation.

Wonder what was lost...

Or translated into the wrong words.

Beyond that - which version are you reading.

King James, Gidieon...

Must be a 1000 different versions printed.

lets not confused organised religion with what God is and what he wants.

When a believe has a structured hierarchic system it is sectarian.

When a belief has a structured ritual it is a cult.

When a belief is unbelievable it is a myth.

'History repeats itself', is there anyone here that has never heard
this? You have now. Reviewing belief systems through our knowledge of
history puts into perspective the reference, 'history repeats itself'.
I will try to stay on target with the topic of this post by following
Judaism to Christianity through a historical route. This is by no means
complete, it is simply a synopsis to show how the Christian faith got
here, to the masses.

Judaim, originally small mostly family and extended family groups,
nomads. They kept their families together, kept thier 'wealth', by
creating rules, laws, rituals all realted to their faith. This was how
the head of a family "ruled" that family. It kept everyone in line.

Nomads begin to settle in villages and small communities where properity
as well as living could be easier. This group had to be of one mind
about laws, who was in charge and the like. So when they settled they
chose the oldest to lead them and of course they were led through the
laws of religion.

More people begin to join the larger metropolis, that was ruled by a
Cesar, or Emporor and those in the city were of many religions. To
maintain the peace the person in charge may have declared all to believe
the same as he did, or may have allowed everyone their own views.
Little did they know that those of Hebrew faith would prove to be a
mighte foe. Mostly because thier religion was so simple and straight
forward, in comparison to the many, ambivalent, unpredictiable gods of
that period. Many joined the ranks.

So we see that religious 'ethics' was effectively used in place of a
'civil' order based on social equality. Now skipping, to the time after
Jesus --------

Social unrest,anarchy, an empire unable and unequipped to deal with the
conflicts that arose within it's empire, mostley due to religious
disagreements. In conquering 'the world' they had not the means to keep
the peace.

It is seen by those who chose to follow a Christian path to take that
path far away, where it could be taught to others, in surroundings
unfamiliar with the new faith. In this way those teaching it had a
better chance of survival, due to their simple anonimity in a new,
unaware social order. And the people, like those in Rome, saw a simpler
set of more consistant laws under one creator and followed.

Fast forward again - Now the Constantine saw that his land was in
turmoil and had a good understanding of why the Roman Empire failed. He
knew that to organize THE PEOPLE unde one religion, would give him more
freedom to move as a conqueror if the people of his home land and all
new conquerd lands where united under one religion. He saw that many
accepted the religion of the Christians and so gatherd together the
Oecumenical Councel of Trent to determine what books would be brought
together into one volume, and what rituals, what creed and how to teach
the followers so that all would be of one belief. THIS GAVE RISE to the
absolute power that the Vatican wielded over many civilized lands.
The papacy would not sit still and be ruled, instead they took the new
writings and on their own began to teach in distant countries, to unite
those who had no organized belief systems.

forward: Of course Catholocism grew and propered, due to the simplicity
of following a single consistant god. It developed nearly unhinderd, in
fact mostly welcomed by governments as it brought peace within religios
concepts - until the crusades.

Martin Luther in Germany broke away from the Catholic rule and one
church broke. Again religion begins to be a thing to be fought over.

Then in England a King, James sees the conflict and turmoil of different
religious orders. In fact protestanism was beginning to grow beyond his
control. There was a multitude of peasants too poor and ignorant to
have a faith. If he converted them to Catholicism and made the Catholic
church the one true church of the Kingdom, he would have control and
peach again. So he gained the papacy through payment and contoled what
HE would have in his bible and how HE wanted it taught. And for this
the Catholic church would have REAL printed Bibles for the first time in
history.

Are you catching up yet - As the masses became educated, as they began
to read for themselves more and more fell away, developed and followed
other denominations of 'true believers.' This brought down the rath of
the king on many.

It is from this turmoil, away from this tryany that this countries
forefathers sought refuge. This is the reason why they agreed that this
countries constitution would forever allow the freedom of religion. It
was not that they wanted to practice one set of Christian rules, it was
that they meant to implement only one faith in this country, the
Christian faith, it was simply that they believed that faith was an
individual concept and that everyone should have the freedom to believe
and practice the faith of their choosing.

So for the second time in history, the first being the Roman Empire, we
became a unity of poeple with a freedom of many different religions.

Fast forward again - here we are. Aside from the affects of world
economy on this society, what is the source of our greatest internal
discontent? What is the nature of our greatest bias, bigatries, hate,
judgements. When there is internal injustice, where is the most likely
source of it's beginning to be found?

Abraham Lincoln and the civil war
do you know that after the civil war, Christian took away the beliefs
of Africans and replaced them with Christianity. They did not want it,
but they were told, they had to conform in order to be free.

JFK - civil rights
Who fought against civil rights the hardest, it was the Christians,
afraid that they would loose their foothold in the polotics, the laws of
this nation

Martin Luther King
This was was not just a battle of color, it was the religious
organizations, the Christians who did not want these poeple coming to
their churches, going to their white schools, why? You would not believe
how they justified thier fights with Biblical reference.

GAY RIGHTS activism that began in 50's and turned into a communist which
hunt by judgemental Christian poloticians. It would be 20 years before
there was enought courage to begin again.

SO LET'S CONTINUE DISCUSSING, let's continue to find friends amidst the
differences, and in those friendships maybe we'll find acceptance and
support of equality to all US citizens, but it won't happen as long as
Politicians and citizens continue to put religion into the laws of our
civil code. Take religion out of polotics and you will have less to
fight about.

Actually. Anyone here heard of "Zaostrism" or "Zarathustrism"- the
names are interchangeable. And it's the first religion to ever say
"there is but one God". From it evolved Judaism, and about 8 other
religions. Mine was one of those.

But ours was more heavily influenced by ancient Grecian philosophy. Of
course, ours is also a bit less dogmatic. This is one of our Divinely
attributed quotes.

"Two men can stand with a tree between them, and neither man will see
the tree the same.... if you travel even a day, you will not see the
same earth you saw at home.... any who claim to know Me completely are
blasphemers"

People who worship the idolized god of an ancient doctrine are idol
worshipers.

Why they cannot see that this is the case is totally beyond my
comprehension.

should ask him to show you the way an you might be impressed god will if
you ask it of him. since you dont beleive that much of the bible. just
be carefull how you ask seen alot in differrent times showed me he was
there an watching an listening an speaking . you wonder where that
little voice is that tells you its the right thing to do (conscious) i
always think of that as him.

didnt we all start out blind remember acradabra what a nickname anyway
no one sees untill he opens their eyes to it.