that's supposed to say "heard" not "head"

Well, I figured that.

That's awesome! For awhile I tried to do the same but after awhile I realized that I just didn't feel anything from Catholasism and finally started making the rest of the switch over.

I understand that. I have had my ups and down with the two paths. I have tried following one and leaving the other out and it just doesn't work for me. I am both.

Isn't it wonderful to be able to follow whatever path you choose? I never could understand people who get their panties in a wad over someone else's spiritual path.

Amen Ruth

Exactly. I remember when I took an anthropology class awhile ago it was focused on religions, more specifically on witchcraft and shamanism.I learned that in Japan many of the people have at least two different spiritual paths and it was completely normal for them. After learning that I felt like I was struck my the lightning storm of obviousness. "I can pick more than one path!? yay!"

I did the same thing with Christianity (Protestant), eventually my path just evolved into the Celtic wytch path I follow today (with heavy influence of Druid spiritual practices)

The two paths at their core are not compatible, however for everyone who moves from book religion to personal spirituality there is a transition period of "making" them compatible. Again, one of the many great feats of being able to shape the paths we've chosen.

There is no one right path for everybody. I wish more people would come to this realization

Thank you

anytime

I disagree. Religion serves only one purpose and that is to connect with God/dess. However you do that is your religion. And, if you are making that connection then who cares how you got there? There is no transition time. The whole thing is a constant and ever changing evolution.

Well said Ruth. It's kinda like how I used to fight with my old math teacher. As long as I got the correct answer why do you care how I got it? Why is your way better than mine if they are both still right in the end?

*nod nod* Another thing I love about Paganism is that you don't have to jump through hoops to say you are one- you are if you are.

Exactly.

I think more people are Pagan than want to admit it.

hello all i was asked to check out this thread bc i actually practice wicca, unlike in the wiccan thread where there were various other religions being discussed, but nothing on the topic of wicca. so, thank you for inviting me to your thread

Another great thing about the pagan community, is our ability to have differing points of view and be ok with that

I've found most believe all of the "individual" gods and goddesses to be simply facets of the God and Goddess. I however, believe each god and goddess to be separate spiritual beings, not quite as powerful as they would like us to believe they are, but enough to be great partners in the magick of life. This where most of my points of view on life and world view are based from.


Hi kalenkatastrophe welcome

I think there's a lot of true to that in a way. But in another way it all depends on how the people originally interpret and view the "book".

I was born into Christianity in two ways really. The first being that my entire family was Christian (including just about all of my aunts, uncles, and cousins). So that's a lot of Christianity right there. Plus it was also quite prevalent in the neighborhoods where I was born. So as a young child it appeared to me that most sensible people are Christians and the non-Christians were flukes.

Of course that was a very local view and as I grew I began to realize that, not only where other religions far more prevalent than I had first thought, but that even the Christians were far more divided than I had first thought.

In fact, consider this. Our family was primarily Free Methodists. Free Methodists (at least in my local) focused pretty much on Jesus and the New Testament and truly downplayed the Old Testament as much as possible, always looking backward on the Old Testament "through the eyes of Jesus".

However, that is truly an extremely problematic view and because it is, even the Free Methodists clergy would not agree on many issues. I was quite fortunate to see this first hand since there were actually quite a few preachers in my immediate extended family (uncles and cousins). And they would often bring other preachers and evangelists to dinner, etc.

Well, after dinner people would sit around and talk, and often times religious questions would come up and it was crystal clear that even the clergy would not agree on many issues. They never got into "heated" debates about it, but instead they would very politely share their differing views. In the end they would all join together and pray for guidance and enlightenment. But this would go on year after year and it became clear to me that no only do they still continue to disagree, but their prayers for enlightenment were obviously not being answered.

But the major thing I learned from the entire experience is the fact that nobody really knows what the hell is going on and everyone, even the most devoted religious people are clearly just guessing.

It was those kinds of experiences that gave me the green light to read the book myself and decide for myself what I think it's trying to say. And after studying the book in great detail I sincerely concluded the following:

Jesus actually denounced the Old Testament, and could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham, and the entire Old Testament is most likely based on guesses no different from any other human guesses.

The second conclusion that then became strikingly oblivious to me is that if Jesus wasn't the son of the God of Abraham then there is no reason to believe that the New Testament is the infallible word of God (or Jesus). In fact, that's when it became clear to me that Jesus never wrote a single word of it and it was all hearsay by people who, like modern religious fanatics, were just trying to force the idea that Jesus was the son of the God of Abraham. But it doesn't even work in the Bible IMHO.

The final piece of the puzzle came to me when I began to learn of Eastern Mysticism and the teachings of Buddha. That's when it all came together. The things that Jesus taught were the same as the things that Buddha taught and NOT the same as the Old Testament. Buddhism was prevalent in India, and Jesus was missing from the Biblical scene from the time he was 12 until he was 30.

Then it became crystal clear to me that Jesus most likely traveled to India, learned the ways of Buddha and pantheism, and then returned to try to 'save' his culture from the horrible mythical doctrine that they had been worshiping. He denounced the judging of others, the stoning of sinners, and the seeking of revenge and taught instead forgivingness and to turn the other cheek.

Those principle are a blatant blaspheme of the mythical God of Abraham, and are precisely in line with what the Buddha had taught.

That's when I realized that Jesus was actually a Buddhist.

So if you want to talk about believing in a 'book' religion I think it entirely depends on who's reading the book. When I read the Bible I see Jesus as a mortal man who denounced a violent false God and totally rejected the things that God stood for. I see much of the New Testament as being a very lame attempt by religious people to try to use Jesus to prop up their failing violent religion. Unfortunately they actually succeeded in pulling the wool over the eyes of the masses. But we also know historically that they accomplished this via the sword and threat of death to anyone who rejects and thus blasphemes their account of what Jesus stood for, and who he was.

So now the question becomes this:

Now that I have seen through the demagoguery of the book, can I still say that I recognize the book?

I recognize it as containing many lies, myths and demagoguery, but I also recognized it as containing some truths (i.e. a historical account about how one man single-handedly had such a profound affect on an ancient violent mythology).

Although, his real impact came from those who used his martyrdom status to prop up the very religion that he had denounced. None the less, that's the history to be learned.

I now view Jesus as a very brave and deeply spiritual pantheist who tried very hard to bring the pantheistic love of the world back to his homeland.

I think it's a real oxymoron that the story of his saga has actually become the icon to support the very violence and bigotry that he denounced. I often wonder if he had just let it go if it might have died out on its own shortly thereafter. Something was prime to give out at that time and the appearance of Jesus only served to perpetuate the very religion that he denounced.

Of course he had no way of knowing how things would unfold.

In any case, have I abandoned the original religion? Or have I merely recognized it for what it truly is?

Jesus will always be my hero for what he TRIED to do.

And now I will always see Christianity as the antithesis of Jesus.

Today I have no problem at all 'worshiping' the Moon Goddesses as well as the Horned God. For one thing I recognize that there are mere facets of the Great Spirit and that gives them reality. I also recognize that they are my friends and in many ways my equal. I put the word 'worshiping' in quotes because I few the word quite differently from the way it is often viewed by dogmatic religions. They view 'worshiping' as a cowering down to authority. But the word 'worship' truly means to love.

When I say that I 'worship' the Moon Goddesses and the Horned God, I simply mean that I love them.

I don't cower down to them. For one thing I don't view them as a threat. They are totally benevolent and they want to be my friend as much as I want to be theirs. So my whole view of "God" has been a move from a truly heartless picture of a jealous and genuinely hateful authoritarian God, to a picture of a very loving Great Spirit that is more than pleased to interact with me via the psyche facets of the Moon Goddesses and the Horned One.

I moved from a religion based on fear and jealous authority to a spirituality of true unconditional love.

And I'm certain that I have made the right move for me.


(Oh dear me! That was another blabby post wasn't it. )