I suggest you check out the hatchet job the Catholic Church did on Warren Buffet and The Bill Gates Foundation.

Here you have two of the richest men in the country donating a goodly percentage of their huge fortunes to charity, and Christians are slamming them because some of the money is going to Planned Parenthood.


-Kerry O.

Well i pretty much stood back and didnt state my opinion on the matter in this thread. I will now in case someone cares

If you looked at it as a narrow concept of whether religion makes an indiviual religious person nicer than an individual atheist then, the answer is obvious that religion has nothing to do with it.

An individual who is religious and who is also nice will ignore the parts of the bible which spew and promote negativity and immorality and focus on the positive aspects of scripture, while a person who is not so nice will use religious scripture to justify cruelty should they feel like it. The factor there isn't necessarily the religion because the person will filter the information according to how nice they are.

Atheism does not make someone meaner than a religious person either. It depends on what values were instilled in them by their parents. And you can't paint atheists with the same broad brushstrokes. Atheists are usually an independent sort who do not subscribe to a fixed doctrine so they vary enormously from person to person. Some atheists are bad, some are not.

It seems that individuals get morality somewhere other than religion then. Perhaps god himself? I don't know.

The article placed more emphasis on "niceness" on a societal level though. It asked the question, why, if people believe that atheism causes people to be self centred, godless and value-less, are atheists states less crime-ridden and less corrupt, and more socially functional than religious states?

Few people in this thread addressed that.

If you did, first of all you would have to say if you agree with it or not. Countries that are arguably the most devoutly religious include the very countries in the middle east that are at war today and where many people are dying. Those countries where religion justifies terrorism.
America is more religious than Britain, and the crime rate in Britain is significantly lower than in the states.
And then you have countries like Sweden which are atheist and which could be a model the rest of the world should emulate. So i agree with the article.
And secondly, you would have to ponder why you think that is.
The article concluded that atheists states are more functional that religious states because the overriding factor is the degree to which members of a society feel a sense of belongingness.

Having studied and had a great interest in sociology in the past and understanding the dynamics of social interaction and social life, i'd have to say i agree with that. When people are socialized to feel they have a stake in the entire society as a whole, they are more apt to treat that society with respect. Their loyalty more likely lies with the society than with afterlife, biblical scripture, or any religion, for that matter, that conflicts with society's
well being is rejected.

I give you two examples:

Some people, who when their parents emphasize religious belief, grow up to not believe it anymore, may not have a loyalty to anything, may be self centred as some people like to believe atheists to be, and live a life of crime. His parents emphasized religion, not loyalty to society with religious belief out the window there is free rein to do whatever he wants to satisfy himself individually.

Some people (fundamentalists) who were taught to be devoutly religious, and who's loyalty, again, is not to society, but to god, might feel justified in committing crimes, being insensitive or obtrusive by quoting their scripture which endorses it. Society suffers with the competition between religious beliefs which all claim to hold the absolute truth and who all have utter faith in it. To hell, with this world, because this world is only temporary right? lets evangelise and get the glory of god/allah/brahmin/huitzilopozhtli out there!
By the way , religion is meant to be followed "fundamentally". God does not want you to pick and choose which of his commands to obey and which to ignore. If your religion is fundamentally evil, then you should probably reassess whether you want to follow that religion and believe that it is the true word of god.

In both these instances, values that keep the society cohesive are not upheld because there is no loyalty to society actively instilled from birth. This loyalty to society is the ingredient needed in both the atheist case and the religious person's case to make society work.

I hope what i'm saying makes sense reading it over it seems that i'm rambling again.

I will do further research into the crime statistics of various countries around the world and get back to you guys.

Catholics over all are

GOOD PEOPLE!!

Don't judge ALLL....

based on the actions of a FEW!!

This applies to All people...

of EVERY religion!!

Thats right

LMAO! I bet you have from many diffrent people and yet you do not change or even think "hey, mayby I'm an irrational bigot".
Nope you just hear people tell you that and you just keep on going with your crazy.
HMMMMM

Sea my boy...I like the use of the word " bigot "...in your responses...sounds much nicer then " racists "...and...as we know...there is a BIG difference...

Like I said in my last post I have heard it all before.I would rather someone dispute the main topic.



LMAO! I bet you have from many diffrent people and yet you do not change or even think "hey, mayby I'm an irrational bigot".
Nope you just hear people tell you that and you just keep on going with your crazy.
HMMMMM


Well Seamonster it's hard to get offended by someone who looks like something off of sesame street.Are you afraid to show your face?Do I get upset when people say mean and nasty things about me?Once in a blue moon I do but I already know even if I answer their questions and back them up with facts they will never agree with me.The people who don't like me are always the same.Liberals and Aeithest.I know they will never like me no matter what I do.It's old news.I find it almost laughable you think you are some kind of saint while you are insulting me over and over and acting like it's not hate.I come here to debate.I do not come here to get into someone's face and call them stupid names.I got over that in Middle school.You don't like what I am saying then debate the issue.It's my opinion and mine only.The only person who knows on your end how to debate is Krisma.She may not agree with me but at least she acts like a professional.

I come here to debate.I do not come here to get into someone's face and call them stupid names.I got over that in Middle school.




Thomas, is that why you called people in the 'gay marriage should be legal thread' idiots? Typical. See you are BUSTED dude.

And you were reported!

One of the problems I have with religious charitable organizations like "Christian Children's Fund" and any number of others is it seems very often they enforce their agenda of conversion on the peoples they help. So Im not saying they dont legitimately offer some form of assistance to these people in need throughout the world but it tends to be conditional aid that comes with the high price of conversion.

I don't believe a person's faith, beliefs or philosophical inclinations determine whether they are nice or not. You can't just pigeon hole people based what they believe. Not all religious people or atheists are nice. Some can be downright nasty people despite what they claim to believe. I know many nice people who are religious and atheist. They are not nice people becuase of what they believe but because of their virtues and actions. No one has the right to judge people as a whole based on what they believe, otherwise we will end up being but a few steps from another holocaust.

And Adolf Hitler was a Catholic lets not forget.