You have no idea how true that is! So many here to claim to be "debating" when their arguments aren't usually "Christianity is stupid!". Look at the posts that Abra does as an example. "Christians are un-Christian". "Christians are victims of their own religion". "The Bible tells you to kill non-believers". It's all ad-hominems and strawman fallacies.

"keepthehope" people just don't realize that once you express your belief to another you at that point in time attack another belief and disrespected it ..if you are jewish and some christian talking about Jesus is God you have just disrespected their belief ...the same if you tell someone that Yahweh is God and not Allah or Buddha ...

the thing is if you wish for no one to respond to your belief in a negative way then you do have options

you can either keep the belief to yourself or attend a place of liken minds like a church but you surely do not come to a religious forum ...that's ..er..now how can I put this? ..oh ...delusional

Funches,

That sounds like an excuse so that you don't have to change your behavior. I have friends who are atheist, Muslim and all different sorts of Christians and we don't offend each other when discussing religion. When you respect the other person's feelings, you can politely disagree and debate their beliefs.

all I see "Abracadabra" doing is pointing out what some may view as being hypocrital..if Christians are going to follow the bible and recommend that others do the same then they should follow all the bible and not pick and choose which parts to follow ..

in the very forum Christians are saying that parts of the bible are not literal but metaphoric ..some even said that Adam and Eve is not real but when someone points this out then it's no longer considered a debate but an attack

I've may it a point to debate the bible as if everything in it is true ...but amazing there are Christians in this forum that don't go by this standard and attack me for doing so

"keepthehope" the point is ..if you respected other people feelings you wouldn't be telling them your beliefs, you would keep them to yourself because your religious beliefs may be offensive to others but just because they don't tell you logic should

also if my behavior was offensive you can rest assure that the moderators will jump in delete the post or send me nasty e-mail..since none of that have taken place means I fall into the guide lines of acceptable behavior...which means you telling me that I'm not being respectful is in fact you being dis-respectful and unfeeling towards me .. "keepthehope"...have you no compassion?

I'm "SpiderCMB".

The rest of your post is directed towards statements you feel I made, which I didn't. You claimed that any disagreement was offensive, that is patently false. It's possible to disagree in a respectful manner. That's my point. You don't offend me, I know your schtick. It's a game for you. You are here to make people angry, if I get angry with you, then I have jumped through the hoop you are holding up. I'm just correcting your incredibly fallacious statement about being unable to disagree without offending.

Well stated spider.

For this once I agree 100% with you.

"Spidercmb" sorry to disappoint you but I was not referring to you in particular there are Christians in this forum besides yourself that preach that the bible is not all truth

and as for me making you angry to jump through hoops ...as any of the regulars in the forum can attest to ..you simply get easily "perturbed" you get mad and have a conniption fit with anyone that disagree with you

so please don't blame me for your anger problem..... blame Satan

Funches,

You quoted my post and responded as if you were talking to "keepthehope". I was correcting you on that. You made a mistake and I was pointing out that mistake to you. I realize that there are other people in these forums, but the post you replied to "keepthehope" on was written by me. Everybody makes mistakes, it's no reason to get defensive.

been there done that to still am. i think Erasmus says it best " Polemic should be avoided because the long war of words and writings ends in blows"

"Spidercmb" .
clearly you are not going to say that you yourself follow all the Laws set forth by Yahweh... ..which means you yourself don't take the entire bible literally but yet you preach like you do which is an automatic disrespect in itself

come to think of it how many Christians in this forum have referred to God as being Yahweh

Funches,

You have changed the subject, but I don't care. I made my point, you are obviously trying to avoid it. It's not even that big of a deal, you mistook my post for someone elses.

"Spidercmb" what are you talking about ...everything I said in that post applies to you I said that I wasn't speaking to you in particular that it was a host of Christians that do the same thing.. but the post was addressed to both you and "keepthehope"

to prove this.. I asked you what in that post didn't apply to you and that you clearly wasn't going to say that you yourself followed all the laws of Yahweh

also I said that you have a habit of getting angry and leaving the debate which shows that you yourself can't debate without getting offensive

remembered you called me dense obtuse and obnoxious when you left our last debate ....so quit being a hypocrite and acting like you don't call people names

Funches,

I may have used those terms to describe your behavior. You are more than your behavior. The internet tends to bring out the worst in people. I believe in person, you would act very differently from how you post.

It's not hypocritical to try to better yourself.

I totally stay out of the religious threads. I'm secure enough in my beliefs that I feel no need to argue or defend them in a public discourse.

I also see that there can be no discussion here because there are Christians, non-Chrstians, Atheists, and anti-Christians who cannot allow anyone to posses a different belief system without feeling the need to debunk and bash it

so I don't participate

Funches earlier:


Does debating make people accountable? The kind of debate that points endlessly to the flaws in each counter-part's statements leads to endless circles of how the other's points are invalid.

How can anyone really hear the other's point if they are sitting, perched, waiting for areas of weakness in speech to jump at?

So, if no one really hears anyone else's point, what's the use of debate?

Where do we go when we reach an impasse?

"Spidercmb" I'm like exactly who "I Am"...if some delusional person comes up to me in public and start sprewing Jesus or Allah is God I use the same debating style I have in this forum ...but of course I try to keep an eye on them just in case they pull out a weapon ...

"Spidercmb" as I said I witness you getting angry with a lot of people in this forum so you ever figure it may be you that have a problem and may not be happy with yourself which may explain why you need an imaginary friend whom laws you don't follow anyway

Funches,

You seem a little angry. It might be the holiday season, this time of the year is always hard. Lots to do, little time, company, spending your hard earned money, etc. Enjoy your holiday, don't worry if it's not perfect for everyone involved. I'm sure they will enjoy your company more than they would the perfect turkey. Have a happy holiday.

You keep using the term "Strawman fallacies", but you're the one who makes up all the untruths.

The God of Abraham most certainly did tell people to murder heathens, on many occassions actually, Including when he led his people to the promised land.

You claim that's a "Strawman fallacy" but it's not. It's in the Bible Spider.

People call themselves "Christians" and support this horrid doctrine, and then turn around and pretend like it doesn't say what it says.

They claim that the Bible is the word of God, but they refuse to accept the things that that God supposedly did and said.

You support the bigotry, intolerance, hatred, and male chaunvinism of the Bible by demanding that you believe it is the word of God. Yet then you turn around and deny what the doctrine actually says.

This is so typical of so many people who claim to be Christians and support the Biblical picture of God.

You want to talk about strawman fallacies, I'll tell what a strawman fallacy is. It's modern day people claiming to believe that Jesus is God whilst denouncing that the God of Abraham ever existed.

That's what modern day Christians are all about Spider. They are totally confused and deluded people. Because they have basically raped Jesus from the Bible and made him into their God and then swept the ugly hateful God of Abraham under the carpet and deny his existence. But they keep tripping over the lump in the middle of the room.

Jesus cannot be your God unless you first accept the God of Abraham. But you refuse to even believe that he existed. You denounce everything that the God of Abraham stood for. Just as Jesus did!

There's no way that Jesus could have been the Son of the God of Abraham.

It's a total completely impossiblity. Jesus was dead set against the things that the God of Abraham stood for. And He clearly taught against them.

Christians would love nothing more than for the Old God of Abraham to go away and pretend that he never existed. But they can't do that, because as soon as they officially reject the God of Abraham then all of a sudden Jesus has no divine heritage. He can no longer be the "Son of God" if the Christians denounce the "Father".

So they're stuck with the God of Abraham that they keep trying to sweep under the carpet and unofficially deny.

I've said many times on these forums that if it wasn't for the God of Abraham and the Old Testament I'd be a Christian myself. I'd be glad to follow Jesus as a Buddha.

Once you do away with the Old Testament and the God of Abraham then Jesus becomes just a man, like Buddha.

The virgin birth, and the crucifixion as a sacrificial lamb of God no longer have any meaning.

Jesus could not have died to pay for your sins with the God of Abraham demanding blood sacrifices before he can forgive sins.

The very meaning that Christians give to the crucifixion DEPENDS on the lust for blood sacrificies that the God of Abraham demands before he can offer forgivness.

There's no strawman fallacies here Spider.

Christians who pretend to worship Jesus as God whilst denouncing the ruthless intolerant character of the God of Abraham are the people who have created a strawman religion.

I speak the TRUTH Spider.

It's IN the Bible!

I didn't write it. But it's there!

You just pretend that the truth doesn't exist so you can support a strawman religion.

This is what most Christains do. They live in a dream world pretending the Jesus is God and totally rejecting and ignoring the original God of the religion.

I speak out on this very issue in the hopes that some people might wake up and see that fallacy they have created.

I've often talked about 'saving Jesus' from the bibilcal picture. But the only way to do that would be to go back and view him as a Buddha who was most likely crucified for blaspheme (because he did reject the teachings of the God of Abraham). But then you'd also have to give up the notion of a virgin birth, the idea that Jesus can offer people repentance, and the idea that he rose from the dead as some part of the God of Abraham's master plan.

Jesus cannot be the Son of the God of Abraham.

That's no strawman fallacy.

That's clearly obvious by the stories in the very doctrine.

"Spendidlife" ..yes debating does make some people "see the light" ..and debating tends to get people to think beyond the belief

once I started debating the bible as being absolute truth is when the religious started debating that it was not truth only metaphoric which means some have stopped pushing the belief as truth