The biggest mistake that the Republicans made was to not stand up to the special interests (Democrats such as Barney Frank) who demanded that sub-prime mortgages be made available to those who were not financially qualified to be home owners. We would have been better off simply giving the money to the poor to buy houses. That would have been redistribution of wealth. Oh well. In this case we could have said, better a handout than an opportunity.
If you live in America today with a roof over your head and a car in the driveway you are considered to be in the wealthy top 10% economically of all the people on the earth. Maybe the bottom 90% should come here and demand that you share the wealth with them. It could get ugly.

"Trickle down" economics is not constitutionally promised. There is no promise that you will be rich or that your fellow man will be poor. Did you know that we now have more black millionaires in this nation than at any other time? I think that's F'n awesome and I am genuinely happy for each of them. They have done what I haven't, worked or used their minds to achieve what I have not and I think that is phenomenal.

I love that there are more rich now then at any other time not because I think that rich equals noble or polite, or that it means I'll get more, but because it means that one can still work hard and still make it--still put enough money aside to pay for their kids and their grandkids' college education.

I don't ever need nor do I desire to be so rich that I cannot be bothered by what really matters. I give to charity and I have several companies and foundations that I strongly believe in, including UNICEF.

I just don't want to see those who already pay more than their fair share have to pay more. They are paying enough--their share and that of many others. Yet we (not all, but some) still seem to find interesting and inventive ways to call them names. Not you personally perhaps, but the point is not lost on everyone.

Someone brought up (on a previous post) the issue of someone like Paris Hilton. She's a rich woman having not really done anything save for regular salon appointments and getting her name on the news for being, well, Paris Hilton. While it is true that such examples are frustrating, that is never going to change. My point in bringing up Hilton is only to offer the alternative view that a great number of the well-off are not trust fund babies who have lucked (sic) their way into fortune. A number of people who are wealthy today have also been miserably poor--they know what it is to be hungry and broke. J.K. Rowling is a great example of a rags to riches story and while she is not a US citizen, I think her work (and the riches that have followed) are every bit deserved. On a more realistic note, I am glad there are men and women who have worked hard enough to to and graduate from medical school. When I needed surgery a few times a few years back I was happy that such people were around. When they put the mask over your face to send you to never-never land, none of us really care about how much they make--we are just hoping that they know what the hell they are doing so that we'll again wake up. In fact, I want my surgeon to be so well-off that he/she massively enjoys what they are doing and is thinking of NOTHING but the guy on the table, trusting his life to the skill and mind of the person doing the cutting.

Again, just my .02 but I am glad that I live in a nation that allows me to reach for all I can, to prosper and work, to achieve and with motivation, realize my own dreams.

Not everyone will and there are some truly heartbreaking cases of people in horrible situations through no fault of their own. I'm fine helping them, fine with making sure that basic needs are taken care of and that there are opportunities provided so that they can make a better life. But I'm not (nor will I ever be) fine with punishing achievement simply because others have not themselves done so well. That is not what this nation was founded upon and not what I want to see her dictate.

Thanks all, for again entertaining my tome of a reply.

-Drew

There is, even in helping the poor, such a thing as investment.

Many poor aren't an investment at all. Many of us will live off government handouts forever.

But some of us are a great investment -- people who really want to try and get out of the holes we live in daily.

Problem is, when so many are black holes, who can blame people for not wanting to take the chance that some may come back from the help and help the economy themselves someday?

There is, even in helping the poor, such a thing as investment.

Many poor aren't an investment at all. Many of us will live off government handouts forever.

But some of us are a great investment -- people who really want to try and get out of the holes we live in daily.

Problem is, when so many are black holes, who can blame people for not wanting to take the chance that some may come back from the help and help the economy themselves someday?

The ones who live off of it for ever are a minority and not the norm..If there is such a thing. We need welfare reform but thats more than just cutting benifits. Health care alone would break some of it. Health care that is a right? A privilage? We are a country that wont let the sick just die. We take care of them. We all pay!!! But when you word it as helping the poor. The free lunchs come out and a serving of kool aide. It dosnt make sence to me!

Drew,

Totally agreed. I'm thinking (OK I know but I'm trying to be SOMEWHAT optomistic here), that 99.99999% of America's policies on class and finances come from those who have no clue what it's like to be in need. And by that I mean they have about as good a clue as anyone has about what it's like to live on a different planet.

Pfft. Dunno if that'll ever change, but if those in power could even GLIMPSE what it's like, oh what a difference there could be!

Tiama,

Is that an offer to give advice or...? A little confused here.

Not cutting benefits. Keeping benefits the same for those who are bettering themselves until they don't need any at all, and cutting benefits for those who lie and live off the system.

As for health care... we all need it, and as human beings we all have the right to it. That said, we still don't have it. Something ain't right up in here...

THE FACT IS THIS...IT'S NO EXCUSE FOR THE LOSS OF JOBS IN AMERICA. Or the illegals who take jobs from American citizens.

You DO know, though, that it IS possible for you to do better for you and your family.

No one is saying that just because you are poor you are stupid. I am saying that there are so many resources out there for single parents to make a better life for themselves, and the argument before (WINX, I think said) that people that are older with children will never make any better of a life for themselves or their families other than minimum wage and that minimum wage should be increased. You can look back and see that conversation.

You can also see in other threads where I have told my story, and argued that many people are perfectly happy with making a lower income. They are happy to spend more time with their families and would opt to not work so hard in their life. What I am saying is, that's fine, but I don't want them to whine and say that somehow because I HAVE worked hard to earn good money, I owe them by paying more than 1/3 of what I earn to them.

Hope that clarifies.

Tina

There is, even in helping the poor, such a thing as investment.

Many poor aren't an investment at all. Many of us will live off government handouts forever.

But some of us are a great investment -- people who really want to try and get out of the holes we live in daily.

Problem is, when so many are black holes, who can blame people for not wanting to take the chance that some may come back from the help and help the economy themselves someday?

The ER?

Yeah, that's a real good permanent answer.

Yes, there are lots of resources. But those resources are either taxed to the limit right now (food banks, etc), or are sadly tangled and in sore need of a good dusting off (DSHS).

I did not say that they will never make a better life for themselves!! I said that it was more difficult.

You said exactly,

Winx: "But..you were young when this happened. These people are older and have children. Minimum wage cannot support a family.
It's even difficult for a single adult to live on that income."

Throughout the entire conversation, you had stuck to this and how "difficult" it was to a point that it was implied as nearly impossible.

And in another quote, an implication:

Winx: "Not to mention the psychological issues they have from living like that all of their lives and having no hope or good role models."

I am just arguing the point that it IS possible.

And, if one jumps on the ball early enough in the year FASFA funds will be available for them. There are also State Need Grants for EVERYTHING from excess tuition fees, class fees, books, extra cost of living, DAYCARE, etc. AND on top of that comes a subsidised loan, and if all else fails, an un-subsidised loan.

Tina