In general; Why do CULTS even exist? When does say a say a philosophy, idealogy or religion become an OCULT? Why is it so hard for people to break away from an ocult?

Technically speaking, a cult is nothing more than a religion or philosophy that goes against the beliefs of the majority.

But the word "cult" has been used so by the sensationalist media that is has become an emotionally charged pejorative that is used for no purpose other than to incite prejudicial fear or hatred toward whatever religion or philosophy that the speaker wants to belittle.

There have been many such words in history that started out as simple labels, but which evolved into what is now considered impolite at best and obscenely offensive at worst. The most notable and numerous have been racial, but the religious ones are not far behind. And "cult" is one of those that is fast approaching the offensive stage.

As far as "breaking away" goes. It is usually not the so-called "cultists" that want to "break away", but the establishment that wants to "break away" the people from the so-called "cult".

Big dif between Ocult and Cult...

and by the way...

which cult of christanity do you belong to... by my last count there were over 400 christian cults.

cult... Offshoot of or having diferent doctrine than the original.

I just assumed it was either a typo or a misunderstanding and that the intention was "cult" throughout. Nothing in the OP indicated to me that he was talking about anything "occult". But then I could be wrong. So yes, the question is, what was the OPs intention? "Cult" or "Occult"?

That's an interesting thought.

Are all Protestant religions cults that have broken way from their true parent religion Catholicism?

Or is Catholicism the cult, and all the little groups of protestors the one's who have broken away from the cult?

Also since they all believe in the supernatural, miracles, and intervention from divine as well as demonic forces, shouldn't they all be considered to be cults?

In fact, someone once gave the definition of a cult as an organization that threatens that bad things will happen to you if you reject it or leave it.

Well, going by that definition then Christianity in all it's forms is cult because it definitely threatens that bad things will happen to you if you reject it or leave it.

DewDrew asked:



This is exactly why, they threaten bad things will happen if the people leave it.

Christiantiy demands that anyone that is not a member of this cult is rejecting God, siding with demonic forces and will, forever, for all of eternity, suffer severe punishiment and be rejected by their creator with no hope of parol.

Actually if the government decided to outlaw cults that threaten people who don't join them or belong to them then Christianity would need to be outlawed.

It's a terribly threatening cult. It threatens eveyone with eternal damnation if they don't join it and support it.

I personally vote to have it outlawed because of this hateful property. It is a spreads hate and bigotry against all who are not a member. It incites, fear, guilt and anxiety in everyone who refutes it.

It's a very negative institution that does indeed preach hate. It should already be outlawed by the hate laws.

Or at the very least it should be requred to take a really hard look at its own doctrine and come up with interpretations that allow people to politely decline it without being accuse of rejecting God, siding with Satan, or any other negative hateful notions.

It's truly a hateful cult that preaches damnation to all those who refuse to join it.

In fact, if it was just starting out and hadn't been pushed onto people via the sword for so many centuries, I'm sure eveyone would be in agreement that it should be outlawed as a hate-spreading organization.

Seems to me that it's in violation of the discrimination laws as well since it clearly spiritually discriminates against all non-members.

You bring up a good point DewDrew. We really should do something about this hateful institution in our midst. At the very least we should demand that it stop preaching damation and rejection of God to those who are non-members.

In fact, the U.N. has already shown concern with all proselytizing religoins as being politically disruptful and inciting political unrest and angst.

They should get on the ball and at the very least demand that these organizations stop threatening non-believers with eternal damnation and rejection from God. Those are hateful acts.

Spreading hate for Jesus' sake, what an oxymoron.

the difference between a cult and religion is money, the first doesnt have any.

Top ten cults listed at: http://listverse.com/religion/top-10-cults/

Church of Bible Understanding. The Church of Bible Understanding (formerly known as the Forever Family) is a destructive cult started in 1971 by former atheist and vacuum repairman Stewart Traill in Allentown, Pennsylvania.


Manson Family a cult started by Charles Manson


Aum Shinrikyo a Japanese religious group founded by Shoko Asahara. The movement was founded by Shoko Asahara in his one-bedroom apartment in Tokyo’s Shibuya ward in 1984, starting off as a Yoga and meditation class known as Aum-no-kai and steadily grew in the following years. It gained the official status as a religious organization in 1989.


Restoration of the 10 Commandments The full name of this cult is the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God. The Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God was a breakaway group from the Roman Catholic Church that formed in Uganda in the late 1980s.


Raëlism or Raelian Church is a UFO religion founded by a purported contactee named Claude Vorilhon, who is known recently for supporting Clonaid’s claim that an American woman underwent a standard cloning procedure, which led to the birth of her new daughter Eve in December 26, 2002.


Scientology The Church of Scientology is a cult created by L Ron Hubbard (Elron) in 1952 as an outgrowth of his earlier self-help system called Dianetics. Although Scientologists are usually free to practice their beliefs, the organized church has often encountered opposition due to their strong-arm tactics, directed against critics and members wishing to leave the organization.


Order of the Solar Temple The Order of the Solar Temple also known as Ordre du Temple Solaire (OTS) in French, and the International Chivalric Organization of the Solar Tradition or simply as The Solar Temple was a secret society based upon the new age myth of the continuing existence of the Knights Templar. OTS was started by Joseph Di Mambro and Luc Jouret in 1984 in Geneva as l’Ordre International Chevaleresque de Tradition Solaire (OICTS) and renamed Ordre du Temple Solaire. It is believed that other members were also involved who have remained unknown to the public. In October 1994 Tony Dutoit’s infant son (Emmanuel Dutoit), aged three months, was killed at the group’s centre in Morin Heights, Quebec. The baby had been stabbed repeatedly with a wooden stake. It is believed that Di Mambro ordered the murder, because he identified the baby as the Anti-Christ described in the Bible. He believed that the Anti-Christ was born into the order to prevent Di Mambro from succeeding in his spiritual aim.


Heaven’s Gate is a destructive, doomsday cult centered in California. 21 women and 18 men voluntarily committed suicide in three groups on three successive days starting on March 23, 1997. Most were in their 40’s; the rest covered an age range of 26 to 72. Two months later, two additional members, Charles Humphrey and Wayne Cooke attempted suicide in a hotel room a few miles from the Rancho Santa Fe mansion; Cooke succeeded. Humphrey tried again in the Arizona desert during Feb 1998 and was successful.


Branch Davidians The Branch Davidians are a religious sect who originated from a schism in 1955 from the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists, themselves former members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church who were disfellowshipped during the 1930s. From its inception in the 1930s, the splinter movement inherited Adventism’s apocalypticism, in that they believed themselves to be living in a time when Christian prophecies of a final divine judgment were coming to pass. They are best known for the 1993 siege of their Center near Waco, Texas, by the ATF and the FBI, which resulted in the deaths of eighty-two of the church’s members, including head figure David Koresh. However, by the time of the siege, Koresh had encouraged his followers to think of themselves as “students of the Seven Seals” rather than as “Branch Davidians,” and other Branch Davidian factions never accepted his leadership.


The Unification Church (Mooneyism) is a new religious movement started by Sun Myung Moon in Korea in the 1940s. The beliefs of the church are explained in the book Divine Principle and draw from the Bible as well as Asian traditions and include belief in a universal God; in the creation of a literal Kingdom of Heaven on earth; in the universal salvation of all people, good and evil as well as living and dead; that Jesus did not come to die; and that the Lord of the Second Coming must be a man born in Korea early in the 20th century who must marry and have children.

one man's cult is another man's faith

Not true. The difference between a cult and a religion is relative to the amount of freedom members have to come and go.
Any group, like the Jim Jones cult, who has to keep members with gun toting guards is an extreme cult.

Any group that is overly controlling and involving itself too much with the personal life of the members is a cult. Its all about control.


JB

If only this were true. Its not that simple or cut and dried. Cultism is about oppression and control of members.

Every religion has a touch of cultism in it. It is only a matter of how much control is exerted and how extreme is that control.

Freedom is paramount to true spiritual enlightenment. Any organization that prohibits personal freedom leans toward being a cult.

JB

Cult....a group of people fastidiously adhering to the rules and process of a faith.

Occult.... a label given to the practices of other forms of faith based in Earth Wisdom and magick.


They can be the same... but different... depending on the connotation placed upon the words.

Most believe cults to be negative, however, with the definition above... ANY religion, political party, alternative collective, could be a cult.

But most would not be seen as falling under the umbrella of occult.

In sociology,the definition of a cult is just a new or different religion,whose teachings and practices put it at odds with the dominant culture and religion.If a cult grows large enough it becomes a sect.And if a sect grows large enough it becomes a church.And if a church becomes so well integrated into a culture, and strongly allied with a government it becomes an ecclesia.

That might be an over simplification. You are then saying (or Scientology is saying) that the size of the group determines its status.

I don't think that is the case. If this were absolute, then you would have to come up with some numbers. How many people in a cult? How many people in a sect? How many people in a church? How many people in a religion.

If you determine it with the amount of money they have the same thing applies. How much money do you have to have to be considered a church? Then if the church looses money and members, does it then drop to the status of a sect or cult?

It does not seem that this is the case.

Well, JB to be honest with you it IS all about numbers. The more devotees a group has, the more mainstream society is exposed to their values, and the more they are gradually accepted until they become mainstream. The more members a group has, the more likely they will have socially influential members. Wicca and Scientology are perfect examples of this. Wicca has become almost perfectly acceptable in our society because of the large numbers of devotees. Scientology has more money than Wicca but they arnt as acceptable (yet). This is why Scientology is targeting "high profile" people for recruitment (like Tom Cruise and a lot of other celebrities). All of this is the natural progression that a religion goes through if it wants to survive and grow. If a religion does not do this, then it will gradually "die out" as so many others have.

Well lets just call them all cults and let it go at that.

Here is a good definition:

A bunch of clueless people following a crazy leader.

And in a lot of cases the "leader" is the one being led by the followers.

Personally, I think it is exactly that simple and cut-and-dried.

You’re right that cultism is about oppression and control of members.

But just exactly who is trying to control whom?

If I decide I want to be a part of a cult, who would deny me that right? Would not attempting to stop me from joining a cult be no more than an act of oppression itself?

Who’s the pot and who’s the kettle?

And who judges which is blacker?

I think that organizations who would kidnap children from cults and deprogram them (back to Christianity) are a bit extreme. Thats like one cult stealing members from another cult.

On the who is controlling who question I am referring to the cult's control over members.

This control can go from mild intimidation, to extreme brainwashing and physical restraint.

When the cult or sect or religion begins to busy itself with manipulation of your private and personal daily life and when a member feels the heavy hand of this manipulation, then it is time to consider who is controlling who and ask yourself if you feel oppressed.

Some may want to exchange their personal choice and privacy for the benefits of a commune or cult type society and some may choose to do so, but anytime the decision to leave is met with apposition that applies pressure or restraint then you might be in a cult.

Check out my other thread... You know you are in a cult when...

JB

""Technically speaking, a cult is nothing more than a religion or philosophy that goes against the beliefs of the majority. ""
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So what makes, say an army, right and just in their belief to kill and destroy civilians? What makes the majority righteous over others or just? So a majority belief in a philosophy is an occult?
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""Freedom is paramount to true spiritual enlightenment. Any organization that prohibits personal freedom leans toward being a cult. ""
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So a government that follows a certain philosophy say a republican party majority or communist majority party or pagan party or christian majority may prohibit religious or spiritual freedoms and total enlightenment?
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""That might be an over simplification. You are then saying (or Scientology is saying) that the size of the group determines its status.""
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So many cults seem to control people and really have little money as a whole compared say to the catholic church, ie;say the Jim Jones or waco cult. SO do most cults go to the way of destruction ?
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""In fact, the U.N. has already shown concern with all proselytizing religoins as being politically disruptive and inciting political unrest and angst. ""
.......................................

Does it seem that the creation of THE RELIGION OF MOTHER EARTH is to be the peaceful religion, as I here that this is what the U.N. wants / is promoting that all religions should follow for / in oneness of heart and spiritual concentration?
But yet the sacrifices of the ancient religions whom whorshipped the earth and its gods seemed to sacrifice and kill children and women and men, so it seems all religions end up down this road, doesnt it to you? Cults becoming OCCULTS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElnQUVkWsQ

JB this so called cult is what our goct. called them. They proved in court that he never did anything to those kids. They were all know in Waco as very respectfull people. david found he could make good money buying and selling guns. They said he automatic weapons yet they found none.

This was a warning to all of us. They told the Branch Davidians that anyone who wanted to come out could. One guy did come running out. As he was climbing over a barb wired fence he was gunned down. They left his body thier so the Davadians could see it ffor 5 days.

If you watched a friend who was told he would be safe when he came down and then watched him sprayed with machine gun fire would you come out of that compound?



Branch Davidians The Branch Davidians are a religious sect who originated from a schism in 1955 from the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists, themselves former members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church who were disfellowshipped during the 1930s. From its inception in the 1930s, the splinter movement inherited Adventism’s apocalypticism, in that they believed themselves to be living in a time when Christian prophecies of a final divine judgment were coming to pass. They are best known for the 1993 siege of their Center near Waco, Texas, by the ATF and the FBI, which resulted in the deaths of eighty-two of the church’s members, including head figure David Koresh. However, by the time of the siege, Koresh had encouraged his followers to think of themselves as “students of the Seven Seals” rather than as “Branch Davidians,” and other Branch Davidian factions never accepted his leadership.


Early footage they said they fired 1st and had large guns. You can see where the ATF are beside cars shooting yet you do not see and glass break on the cars no sign of bullets hitting the ground around them.

The after that happened the ATF said it was two dangerous for the press and they set up a command head quarters 2 miles away.

Do journalist stay 2 miles away in Iraq?

Anyone knows where thier is a crime scene you rope it off and spend along time taking pictures and looking it over.

What happened at Waco. As soon as the got the flames out they brought in front ennd loaders and put everything in dump trucks to take it behing closed doors so to speak to go through it.

Then our congretional hearings would not listen to testimony from those who were thier. They listed to the ATF chief behind closed doors and then said it was the Davadians fault they committed suicide. I know alot about thier religion and suicide goes completely against thier beliefs.


We the public have been so blindsided just believing and hearing anything the press puts out as truth.

They did not get by with it with Randy Weavers Family when they gunned down his 14 year old boy. They paid out 2 million i think to them. Did you know that? Was the news having Breaking knews about that?

These things are showing us what the govt. can do and now they have more power to do it.

I do not know alot about the others but i do some about Waco.

Thier is allot on google video here is the waco link

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=waco&emb=0#


This one is longer but shows what was going on before the raid. I would hope that everyone would watch at least this 2nd video to see what can happen if the Govt. of ours does not like what you or your group religious or not have the power to do.

See JB this needs addressed and maybe on this forum.

One last thing do you remember the Waco compound burn't on april 19th and around may 15th 30 days or so later for prime time TV. Has this ever been done before so fast? Blessings...Miles


http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+branch+davidians&www_google_domain=www.google.com&emb=0&aq=0&oq=the+branch#q=the%20branch%20davidians&www_google_domain=www.google.com&emb=0&aq=0&oq=the%20branch&start=10