it was an awful thing that should have never taken place for sure.

But are you aware that over two hundred million native Americans were killed by the united states citizens, the christian men and supposedly civilized European immigrants?

Why am i bringing this up? well we see how much aid and help in all areas has been given to the Jewish Israeli nation as of the 40's, now compare this to the way Indians are even treated today by the government - there slaughter was 40 times the amt [give or take] and we continued to break treatise with them and take away the original promised land and even today it is bad, the only hope they have is to open casinos and i hope they use it to take all the white mans money they possibly can, not out of greed but out of recompense they deserve, no offense to the Jews or other peoples slaughter unmercifully, but non compares to what happened here to the first peoples in this ""god worshipping"" country!!

I know I will be attacked for this be hey I calls them like I sees them. In their eyes, people of European origin are worth more. They like to blame the victim for not being able to rise in the societies they create and ultimately control. Black are lazy and native Americans are all drunks. That is why they don't insist that you and your are subsidized like the Jews.

Attacked? - not by me you wont!!

they even change history to hide as much as possible the atrocities they have done, " do unto others" only seems to apply when it benifits them and thier agendas. almost every treaty ever signed with the first people was broken most over and over again as they required more land and flooded the country. I'm 2/3rds white so i am not speaking from a bigoted position at all just a truthful one.

This is all true. I can't even talk about some of the thing our government has done and is doing without wanting to scream, wake up people that isn't right.

Compensation (reparation) would first require admission of "wrong"-doing.

Is this country ready for that?

Doubt it.

Perhaps a COMPLETE crash in the financial infrastructure would start the ball rolling, aye?

Probably wasted voices on a religious forum my lady [both of ours], but i thank you for your input and your words, may they heed your words to wake up. -

That is a typical eurocentric way of dealing with things. They think they can buy forgiveness. I think having a president that sits down and talks to us about how to be better to each other is what we need. To be sensitive and compassionate instead of being defensive.

thnx doe eyes, well if that will do it then we may not be far away. if you visited some of the legal sites of native indians you will see they have proof of all and approach the Gov. with it but to little avail.

but if the economy collapses t will be those that know the hardship of living of the land that will survive the longest and that would be th first people for sure among others who have prepared for times such are about to befall us. by seeds and planting trools my lady - you may need to learn how to produce your own food one day.

the demise of the native americans (and other indigenous
peoples) are sad histories in the tale of humankind and
very much deserving of consideration. there were many many
instances of the most brutal and inhumane treatment of
the native peoples, usurping their homelands, fomenting
battles between tribes, and exploitations in many ways.
unfortunately the numbers are impossible to determine although it is pretty clear that total deaths numbered in the millions. but most of the deaths were not the result
of intentional extermination and this is what marks the
difference between what happened to native americans here
and what happened to the Jews of Europe.

for one thing there was no determined comprehensive policy of
eradication of all native americans by the US Govt.

also, many of the deaths occurred because of the introduction
of virulent and previously unknown European diseases to the
population. again, this was not deliberate but had a devastating effect on the native americans. similar stories are found around the globe during various colonizations.

the nature of the genocide of the Jews in Europe was
qualitatively different and every attempt was made to
eliminate the entire population. if Hitler had prevailed
in Europe as the US Govt prevailed in the US, then there
is every reason to believe that all Jews would have been
killed in Europe.

of course there have been many other horrible genocides
even in our days - particularly the Armenian Genocide which was conceived and carried out by the Ottoman Empire from 1915 to 1923, resulting in the deportation of nearly 2,000,000 Armenians, of whom 1,500,000 men, women, and children were killed and 500,000 survivors were expelled from their homes.

in Rwanda during a period of 100 days in 1994, officially 937,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed by Hutus in Rwanda. The rate at which people were killed may have exceeded any other genocide in history. Bodies were left wherever they were slain, mostly in the streets and their homes. The method of killing was done mostly with machetes.

and the Killing Fields of Cambodia where it is estimated that approximately 1.7 million Cambodians were slaughtered between 1975-1979, including deaths from slave labour.

each of these is of course horrible beyond belief, but
the Holocaust of the Jews in Europe is exceptional in
the geographical scope, numbers, and open nature of the killing with large
death camps set up specifically for the murder and
disposition of vast numbers of innocent civilians. also
unfortunately for the ultimate efficiency and success of the
extermination. that is why it is held out so frequently as
the ultimate example of man's inhumanity to man. plus it is
so well documented.

http://www.yadvashem.org/

http://www.ushmm.org/

Once again no mention of African slaves and the 500 hundred year plus of systemic genocide of whole cultures.

Or what the jews are doing to the people of palestine.

You are foolish to compare, and I am sick of the jews stating that their suffering was somehow more profound.

That is just more racist buls**T

hi slowhand - i wont and cant disagree with all the atrocities you mention and more - i know this has gone on thru history, nad seems to be in mans blood as well as some gods also. Chin in setting up the first cinese empire killed millions of his own peoples also. i know the holcaust sticks out like a sore thumb because of its deliberate attempts to wipe out a poeple that were hated by the ruling factions. and i know millions died here because of diseases of the europeans also. but even then we are talking close to 100,000,000 natives that died in fighting the white mans advances. and though you may say or state that much of the deaths were "NOT INTENTIONAL" you would have a hard time proving that to those first peoples that have all this info on record from the past - there is much more to this than is know on the surface of those who write about it - talk to those who's elders and families know the truth have fished it out of archives and and ancestral past - then the truth will really come to light. all the battles you list and i list donot come to the amount of people killed here in this christian land.

i thought the topic here was "the jewish holocaust"?
of course the slave trade was an atrocity. it was
the hunting, kidnapping, buying and selling of human
beings!

The nature of slavery however is also qualitatively
different from the genocides I discussed above. The
purpose of slavery is the subjugation and exploitation
of people. Slaves are inhumanly kept alive and tortured
to serve in a parasitic relationship the slave owners
live off their slaves.

The goal of the genocides cited above was the purposeful
eradication of people because of their race, religion,
ancestry, or culture. In those cases, the purpose was to
kill as many of the people as possible and efficiently
dispose of them. Getting any work out of them was purely
not to waste a valuable resource just like selling off
their possesions etc.

This was not the same thing as slavery although it makes
slavery no less abhorrent.

Yes, of course every deceitful, greedy, genocidal, bigoted, destructive action against the first peoples is atrociously appalling.

But I have to agree also with s1owhand's evaluation of the fundamental purpose and intention behind the actions. The white man was multiplying at a faster rate than any other race. The natural result of this was (as it has always been for every species on the planet) the expansion of the amount of space required to support the race.

Although there was definitely bigotry and prejudice behind much of the slaughter of the first people, the basic driving force behind it was simply the natural instinct of an expanding population.

And if looked at from a wide enough viewpoint (spacially as well as temporally) it really amounts to a small part of a single step in the evolution of man.

In fact, from the standpoint of evolution, it would have been both unnatural and contra-survival from a racial standpoint for the white man to have voluntarily restricted his own expansion in order to preserve the static state of the first people's race.

However, from my own microscopic viewpoint, I too am both outraged and saddened by the effective destruction of what I have imagined to be a truly beautiful and harmonious culture. And I wish the first people to make boatloads of money from their casinos and/or whatever other resources they have available. Although my reason for that are not in any desire for recompense, but in the desire I would have for anyone of ethics and integrity to flourish and prosper, regardless of any past or current discrimination.

Yes...

This is essential.

My ultimate dream is to live off the grid.

so in saying this to you it would be the same as if the first peoples had went to Europe and wiped out 200,000,000 million Europeans or more through war and disease or other causes? Interesting. i will look into the populations of france, england, and spain and see what the estimated populations were at the time.

meanwhile those who were here atthe time were nowhere near the original population of the indians - they were slaughterd no buts about it and the land and animal life almost depleted on top of this, there was nothing good or forgivable about what was done for evolutions sake or for mans.

to be sure my lady that would be helpful but it wuld really requre the entire government to make it happen if he could persuade congess and the house and the courts to do so then it would indeed be of great help to all -

i agree as far as the suffering goes suffering is suffering - there can be no clear cut bounderies stating this was worse than this one or the other. the "intent" maybe the only difference at all that one may take into concideration.but thats a flimsy concideration at best, as you i could go into the whole slavery issue and the chinese issue as well but it would take forever to do so, i urge those who think they really know history to go to legitimate sites of those who have the hidden away history of what really took place from the owrds of ones who lived through it. not the US versions.

I actually think there is a disease in which europeans and their offspring think that what they have done to the rest of the world is justified. There population grew so they should go rape and pillage the rest of the world.

Also to say that enslaving people and treating them as a disposable, which is exactly what was done to slaves, until the slave trade was made illegal. Then and only then did slave owners start to actively bred up and perhaps treat up more like an animal than trash.

We also know that if as many of the Native people did not die of disease, whites would have slaughtered that many more to gain what they perceived as theirs.

my suffering is better than your suffering..neener, neener, neener....