And where does Intelligent Design come into theory?

Darwins theory supports The Big Bang Theory, so I think it would be impossible to be a supporter of Darwin and be a Christian lol, it contradicts itself to say so.

1st question:
yes, darwinians can be christians because truth cannot contradict truth.
darwinians just talk about evolution as far as biology. There is nothing in the Bible agaisnt this. The only thing that the Bible teaches (I'm not saying it says in the bible textually that means that the bible teaches through proper interpretation) is that the human soul is created individually at the moment of conception. This does not go against evolution at all.

2nd question:
The problem with intelligent design is that this theory says that God just created the Universe, but after that He has not intervation in the events within it. Human events included.
Such theory falls in the very beginning. How come a Creator can create something and just then forget about it? That just does not make any sense whatsoever.

yes !

hmmm??? what would you call them?

Darstians?

chriswin's

Its Knowledge and Yahweh says

Hos 4:6
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
NKJV
Big Big problem..shalom...Miles

To address your quote above, I'd have to say that Intelligent Design comes into play on the level of the atoms, and in the laws of physics themselves.

The laws of physics naturally produce all of the atoms in the correct proportions in the interior of stars and then spew this raw material out into the universe to condense to form solar systems like our own.

The real 'design' or blueprint for life is mainly in the Carbon atom, but could just as easily be said to be in all the atoms since the Carbon atom wouldn't be any good unless it is in a 'soup' containing the other building blocks of life in the correct proportions.

However, it appears to be the Carbon atom as the central orchestrator in creating DNA (the molecules of life).

Atoms, given the right enviroment, will naturally evolve into DNA. So the 'Intelligent Design' had taken place long before the earth ever even came to be.



Anyone can be a Christian. Who could deny them?

I was born and raised as a Christian. At that time I viewed the religion in a very positive light. However, over time Christian fundamentalists turned my stomach to the religion. Unfortunately, they were also alway pointing out the terrible things in the Bible. This is one of the failings of trying to teach the religion from a fire and brimstone point of view.

I wanted to denounce the Christian fundamentalists by showing them that the Bible was actually about love.

Unfortunately the more I studied the Bible the more I realized that the fundamentalists were write. Taken verbatim it's a truly ugly story of hate and degradation. Particularly aimed at non-believers, as well as 'sinners'. And the Bible showed no mercy toward sinners at all. Even though it claimed to be all about a 'merciful' God.

There were so many contraditions and inconsistencies in the Bible that I finally had to denounce that picture of God entirely. It had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I believed in evolution. The story itself just no longer made sense to me at all. Even the very crucifixion of Jesus was based on God's need for blood sacarifices before he could forgive sins. I finally decided that if it truly comes down to nothing more than a matter of 'faith' then I need to ask why I would even want to place my faith in such a story.

Once I addressed that question I come to the realization that if I could choose I truly would not want the biblical account of God to be true. I seriously don't see that picture as being loving in the least. The idea that Jesus 'gave' his life for man does not wash with me. And the reason it doesn't wash is because Jesus is supposed to be the same God who lusted for the blood sacrifice in the first place.

In other words, Jesus and the God of Abraham necessarily must be the same God in this story. And I see no way that could possibly be true. It would be a story about a god who quite literally sacrifices himself to appease himself.

For this reason, and the fact that it's entirely faith-based, I decided it isn't worthy of my faith.

I'm not going to believe in such an ugly picture of a God. And yes, many Christians who focus on Jesus might immediately think, "What was ugly about Jesus?". There was nothing ugly about Jesus, but Jesus is nothing on his own. Jesus is entirely dependent upon a firm belief in the God of Abraham (and everything that God did in the Old Testament).

Far too many Christians worship Jesus and just sweep the God of Abraham under the carpet. But that won't work for me. I'm sweeping the whole religion right out the door as nothing more than unwarranted superstitious mythology from the ancient Mediterranean folklores.

I see no reason to believe it on pure faith alone. I would seriously be thrilled if it isn't true. The reason being is because it's an ugly picture of God in general. It claims that we are all at odds with God and that God had to sacrifice himself to pay for our pathetic failings.

Why would I want to believe an ugly picture like that on pure faith?

If I'm going to exercise faith I think it to be much wiser to put it into a positive picture of God.

And there are many other religions and beliefs that have much more positive pictures of God.

So this is what I have done. I now view God in a much more positive way. The whole biblical picture is truly a very negative picture of both God and mankind. It's all about sin, shame, and failure. Even if you accept Christ as your savior, all you are doing is confessing that you indeed are a failure and that you have failed your creator.

It's a religion that demands that humans are failures.

That's just totally negative, and I see no reason why I should believe in a negative picture of a God, on 'pure faith'.

I'd be thrilled to discover that that story is totally false. Wouldn't you?

Wouldn't you rather it be true that God loves you as you are, and is not angry with you that he had to send his only begotten son to die to pay for your miserable disobedience?

I can't imagine a more beautiful think than to know that the bible is nothing more than a demented mythology created by mankind.

And I truly believe that it is. I personally feel that there is much more evidence pointing in that direction than there is to support it.

Even the early stories of Jesus in history do not align with what is told in the gospels that have been presented to us as the 'Holy Scriptures'. It shows those stories as having been made up much later. And then enforced by the sword to make them stick.

I don't believe that the gospels represent truth at all. I believe they used the rumors of a rabbi that was crucified to give credence to their dying religion. And it worked all too well.

So for me, evolution isn't even required for a complete and total rejection of the biblical account of God. I think it has proven itself to be untrue without any help at all from external sources.



I still believe in God. I just don't believe that the bible has anything at all to do with God. And I certainly don't beleive that God ever asked for any blood sacrifices from men, and most certainly didn't incarnate any 'son' to die to pay for the sins of man.

Nope, I'm not a Christian to be sure.

I know that Darwin Award winners can be Christian, or not.

What makes a person a Christian is believing and accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as One's Personal Saviour......nothing else.



Point is.....you don't have to change your views first ,or get cleaned up first ,in order to accept and come to Christ.... you just come to Jesus ..JUST... AS ... YOU.. ARE.


and IF there ARE any changes to be made,God will reveal that to you ... as you learn and grow in Him.

Abra....being borned and raised into a Christian family ,does not make you a Christian .

A Christian is only someone who makes an earnest, personal , and willing decision .... from the HEART.... to believe and accept the Lord Jesus Christ ,as his Personal Lord and Saviour .



Anything else is religiousity ... not christianity.


(btw, heard your music... sounds great,Abra)

I don't have a problem with the big bang theory. My experience in knowing God tells me that my finite mind can't possibly know how exactly God worked it all out, so it's very possible that the world "popped" into existance.

I give God the glory no matter how He did it...unlike some who want to use it to discredit God Himself. That's what I don't ascribe to.

LOL

First off, no such thing as a Darwinian . . . . there is no cult of Darwin. No belief structure, just the unifying scientific theory in biology.

Second the Big Bang theory says nothing about Evolution, and Evolution says nothing about the Big Bang. Memorize this, there will be a test.

Intelligent design is an interesting topic, but the issue is that it has nothing to test against. There is currently no way to falsify this line of reasoning, in fact its not even a line of reasoning, its a dot.

A one stop dot of reasoning that doesn't even requiring reasoning. . . . .

"God did it" that is all that ID says. Look at this complex thing WOW, that is irreducibly complex. The problem with this is that it explains nothing, and its wrong, time and time again we discover through the scientific method how life gets past very non-intuitive steps, that seem irreducibly complex, but are not once we uncover the mechanisms involved.

Abra hit on the fact that all life comes from the complexity of the carbon atom. For a time many people thought that god did it, because the carbon atom could not be explained.

When it was first discovered that stars through nuclear fusion form all the heavier elements, they looked at how a Beryllium atom could combine to form a carbon atom . . . well what we found was Beryllium was unstable and wouldn't stay together long enough to combine to form carbon . . . ITS A MYSTERY MUST BE GOD!!!!!!!

So began the problem of Carbon Nucleosynthesis.
http://www.novanotes.com/jan2003/anthro1.htm

So for a time this seemed irreducibly complex, but alas science discovered how it happens (carbon resonance) and moved it from the realm of magic to the realm of nature.

My conclusion is that reasoning dots lead nowhere, learn to follow guidelines of investigation not philosophical paths to feel good answers.

Just curious, how do the Christians know that Darwin was not "divinely inspired" to write Origin of Species so that humans might get this mystery unraveled?

Strictly speaking, Evolution describes the process by which organisms change, and then spread those changes through populations.

Even if one wants to believe humans and other species originated divinely, they can still accept that there is a real process through which all living things can change.

Logically, Catholicism and many other Christian theologies have come to realize this and are now encouraging acceptance of evolution and claiming it does not contradict religious belief.

Of course, once people understand this, and begin to comprehend evolution with more depth, it inevitably leads to questions regarding origins as well, and claims of religious truth.

because you'd have t be an insane evolutionist to beleive that!!

Oh I know. I was just wondering because if all these random men in the Middle Eastern desert were supposedly "divinely inspired" than why the hell not anyone else and especially someone who effectively defined the origin of life on earth?

well i can only go by what the book informs of us as to god, so if what is stated is supposedly true about A&E, then god would be fighting against his own words as to how he brought everything about, it would kinda be like ark having 2 different profiles saying to different things - wont get far doing that BB.

Well thats assuming the bible were true which is difficult for some to take seriously.

One book (the scripture) requires faith in order that we be expected to accept its premise as valid. The other book "Origion of Species" is essentially a defining point in scientific literature and arguably the pivotal work in evolutionary biology. No faith required.

no faith "required"??? none at all? are you sure? then it's your opinion that this work is absolute no room for doubt, no room for error, no room to extropolate to further conclusion? its a done deal?

The Roman Catholic Church believes in evolution and since it's the largest christian denomination I'd say it's safe to say the Christians can be Darwinist.
Intelligent design is a load of crap some evangelists came up with to come to grips with their beliefs.